The Real Truth Emerging In Nsw

[BOB_SMITH]

Here is the Daily Tele start to the week > http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/opin...5001031,00.html

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/stor...006009,00.html#

And others > http://www.thefishingparty.info/wst_page10.html

Bob Smith

[Guest danielinbyron]

you gotta be kiddin if your using the tele as a source for "the real truth "

good letter but..

it would appear to me the liberal party has jacked the fishing party with not so much as one of there empty promises or was the fishing party always just an arm of those mongrels.....lol

if ya vote liberal i hope you've got lots of employees and a good solid business so you never have to become one again..

[Yoda]

I've been folowing this issue since january and reading every article in every newspaper since then and the article in the Daily Telegraph today is the closest that any paper has come to printing the truth since the whole debacle began and I have scrap book 2" thick with news cuttings.

I think you are confusing state and federal politics, state liberal policy is to reverse all marine park zoning plans and go back to the drawing board and have the process done with proper community consultation and enshrine community consultation in legislation, ie: not driven by preference deals, now I would never support the federal liberals workplace reforms and I will never support state labor's marine parks zoning plans.

Makes an interesting quandary doesn't it?

Maybe the solution is: State elections, don't vote labor, federal elections, don't vote liberal.

Edited October 9, 2006 by Yoda

[Guest danielinbyron]

the only thing that stops the liberal party from having absolute power is labor state govt.. .. i can't help but think that the marine parks are vulnerable to a legal challenge as for there ineptitude an unlawfulness in completeing and replying to community consultations..whats being proposed instead is a deal for your vote..this appeals to me to be ultimately corrupt....and not an enthusiatistic challenge to the park at all.

[BOB_SMITH]

danielinbyron

it would appear to me the liberal party has jacked the fishing party with not so much as one of there empty promises or was the fishing party always just an arm of those mongrels.....lol

As Pauline said "Please explain" your free speech of why you would make a stupid statement.

Coming from Byron Bay you would surely know all about being crucified and lied too by the Labor Party.

Further

Your views have been made previous and in a democratic society can you offer an alternate course of action.

So Daniel on what you promote your choices next March are Labor or Greens or don't you commit. You're not a greenie in disguise are you.

Curious

Bob Smith

[Guest danielinbyron]

I spoke to a qualified greeny marine biologist on the grey nurse issue recently... i was surprised at there answer... re its supposed threat of extinction.... " so what" there are more imnportant issues than vals favorite shark... if they were to become extinct along with countless other species this year.... "so what"...

re the pollies ....truth is mate i can't stand any of em... i think i'm more of a closet anarchist.

i just know when someones selling lemons as apples..

[BOB_SMITH]

danielinbyron

So after avoiding any answers, who is selling lemons as apples or do you mean they ALL are.

I have had meetings with both the Libs/Nats and Lab at both state and federal level. Lab lost as the biggest liars. At state level the Lib/Nat have come up with the best deal for fishing. Labor has still got a chance of coming good but not likely to. What is your alternative.

By the way, Marine biologists answer to whoever pays the bills!!!!!! It's now a business.

Bob Smith

[Guest danielinbyron]

danielinbyron

So after avoiding any answers, who is selling lemons as apples or do you mean they ALL are.

I have had meetings with both the Libs/Nats and Lab at both state and federal level. Lab lost as the biggest liars. At state level the Lib/Nat have come up with the best deal for fishing. Labor has still got a chance of coming good but not likely to. What is your alternative.

By the way, Marine biologists answer to whoever pays the bills!!!!!! It's now a business.

Bob Smith

i'll take your word for that " biggest liars' bob.or is it that they are the only ones in any position to be held accountable?

I have tried to keep an open mind on this issue and have done as much research as i can or have time to...

The point is to the shark story " that not all environementally or socially conscious poeple are anti fishing and in fact ,most are quite the opposite.." Then there are the mongrels who get signatures off tourists who can barely understand English with there temporary byron address to support there agenda..Making themselves appear to be numerous and speaking for the vast majority..

I actually support the idea of commercial buyouts and no take zones... I just don't see how they came up with these ones , other than a mix of naievity corruption and compromise.. I also don't see how they can expect to get any data together when all they've relied on so far is the numbers to the dpi from the pros. My bottom line as it stands is that i don't think polarising recreational fisherman from " greens" or environementalists is the way forward..I believe it misrepresents the majority of recreational fisherman.

And my proposal would be to lobby the existing govt. and the greens as well as the libs as you've done and launch a challenge to the validity of the park and the failure to fulfill there legal obligations to the right of reply. If i have to sacrafice some of my best fishing spots , ie around Julian rocks for 5 years for there to be a future to fishing .. I will. But its when i count 14 pro boats between Julians and Broken 5 nights a week on the 4 mile mark where the trappers have been bought out , i feel like i've been sold a lemon...

I appreciate your efforts Bob and i might be in a s## stirring mood ..that hasn't made that evident..25knots'll do that...

[BOB_SMITH]

Daniel

Your stirring comments don't bother me as seeking answers has got to deal with all responses. I am trying to tell you that NSW Labor is responsible for locking you out and it is a political decision rather than much else. Every area where major no-take zones apply is under Coalition control and that will include Port Stephens after March 2007. Why is there no major no-take MP's along the Newcastle and Central Coast regions or down Eden Monaro way. These areas have just as much biodiversity BUT have a bigger Labor population!!!!

You said you agree with buying out the commercials and thats fine to a degree but please explain where the local seafood to the non-fishers will come from. E.G, Aquaculture- that is fraught with horrific environmental dangers, Vietnam or some OTHER area that will soon be cried about to be overfished or overpolluted. Remember here we are talking about Australia where the extraction rate per person is miniscule compared to the rest of the world. We also have one of the biggest marine area with a fair bit of it not utilised at all.

Agreeing with no-take zones needs further explanation. Our evidence from all sorts of media/government/research to stop recreational fishing or family access to beaches or rocky headlands does not support that theory (In NSW). Can you enlighten the rest of us why you think no-take zones are necessary over and above using existing legislation and Acts/regulations.

My talks on sanctuary zones revolve around generating and enhancing areas of weak diversity/marine life rather than lock up proven sustainable areas. Also for anybody to say that rec fishers have 80% of waters to fish is misleading. I say that there is already 80% of waters that rec fishers don't access.

There is more to this whole Marine Park process that just locking up the fishable spots

Bob Smith

[Guest AO7474]

Go Bob!!!!

Bloody Bob Carr the Ex Premier of the LABOUR PARTY was a greeny and thats why we have all the crap we have now.

[Guest danielinbyron]

Your obviously much better versed in the polotics of the park than i am Bob..There seems to me to be a few different groups effected by this. Some siding with others in order to further there own cause .

The truth is I haven't completely made my mind up around the parks..I had done and then i had to ask myself how open minded i was being and how selfish . There are parts of it that make no sense to me . There are other parts that i find a relief. There is a complete lack of any scientific data...some of which is prohibited by this being a first...And as you pointed out there are political points and votes up for grabs , and we all know the kind of bulls## that comes with that weapon of mass destruction.

This is a sore point for allot of poeple . I have to ask myself though as you have , what is a better alternative..

I would like to see bag limits and size limits increased.. I would like to see some commercial non sustainable fishing practises completely banned or have a years off for sustainability policy..I would like to see charter operators and rec fishing clubs supplying data rather than being locked out completely..and rather than relying on pro's numbers to the dpi . I would like to see some more dedication of funding to independant science and its publishing in laymans terms..

I am looking forward to seeing if when the stock around Julian Rocks becomes crowded there will be spill back to the cape..I am looking forward to seeing if the bully mullet return and what will follow them..

And lets get one thing absolutely straight ... NO ONE IS STOPPING ME FROM FISHING.... they are telling me i can't fish here or there legally, which at first i had a knee jerk reaction to... mostly because it was my place of freedom and i felt all i had to answer to was the elements...then there stickin bloody signs all over the shop..It is an emotive issue.. I think they have got it wrong in some instances... But hey they're doing something.... And something needs to be done.. And lets face it , in there defence , the jobs a nightmare..

I agree bob that farming is not the answer and that poeple need to eat fish.. I don't have all the answers... But i don't think pretending that things'll be ok if we just ignore them...is gonna fix it.. And the practices that have supplied that markets are not were not sustainable. And were patently wasteful.

It may be as simple as this generation may need to make some co-operative sacrafices to compensate for the damage done by those who came before.. There has been a huge cultural change regarding fishing in the past forty years by both pros and amatuers alike. ...

This is at the end of the day a social and environmental issue and its disturbing that it has become a political one..But thats life...and thats democracy its lumpy but its the best we got..Instead of poeple working toward a goal cooperatively they polarise in extremes hoping that when the compromise is over they may end up somewhere near there target...

I have faith in us as a nation and as a state to deal with these problems over time and i have faith in the next generation to do a better job than we have.. And i have faith that the kids that are graduating from university with there environemental studies and marine biology degrees aren't all gonna sell out to the highest bidder..And that with a bit of care and willingness it'll all work out in the end...regardless of the greed , lies and short term popularist fixes ,that is politics...

The thing that seems to stand out for me in the debate is that unless the park had support it wouldn't get up...there fore I' say it again.. "Polarising environementalists and greenies from rec fisherman" in favor of the liberal party is not{in my limited understanding} the way forward...Rather than a show of willingness and cooperation and education, that not all rec fisherman are out to kill every living table fish thing they see..discarding there bicatch to die... Although that did seem to be the case regarding a visting fishing club team to my area last year...