brfo1234 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Ive been having this problem for awhile and just don't know where to start looking, im now officially sick of this problem and want to fix it. Ok so ive got a Haines Hunter V19c and a Mercruiser 460 inboard and the problem is... When the engine is hot after a good run, the engine cant start. It starter cant even turn the motor over, sounds like the engine is siezed. But after about 20-30 minutes it will start no problem straight away. This problem is getting real annoying if at the end of the day, we head back to the ramp, and the engine may stall, we cant restart it and have to wait there till we can start it. Thanks in advance guys... Also whos going to be out in botany bay on Australia Day ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelican Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) When you say it won't start do you mean it won't turn over at all or is just slow to do it or it won't fire? Any other info you can give us? Any other symptoms or things you've tried Earth lead loose and getting hot would be my first guess along with battery terminals as when they get hot they can't conduct enough amps? Have you tried it with a booster pack - ie fresh battery? Has the motor got an overheat kill switch and senders either in the block or water galleries- check they are working? Standard start battery or a gel one?. Some gels get hot under normal charge and can't discharge properly until temp has decreased. Edited January 23, 2008 by pelican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brfo1234 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) its just hard to turn over, we've tried with a jump starter meant for trucks, and that cant even turn the motor over.. The motor doesnt have a overheat kill switch and its dual battery but standard start batterys we are going to take a socket with us saturday, and when it gets like this we are going to try turn the motor over with the socket and if it turns over, then we will look more into the starter motor but if it doesnt turn over, then it must have something to do within the engine thanks already Edited January 23, 2008 by brfo1234 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelican Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) Yeah - sounds odd- two choices - electrical or mechanical Have seen some "lazy" starter motors but not sure why it is occurring only with a hot motor unless there is a water leak onto the electrics. Try the starter by directly powering it with the jump pack. That will prove if it is a wiring issue and if the starter has the guts to turn it over fast enough to start. Socket is a good idea or you could see if just removing the plugs will allow it to turn over on the starter motor. Socket is hard hard work and even harder on the knuckles. Seized saltwater pumps or hydraulic pumps can create a similar scenario but it is consistant not the hot cold you talk of. Just loosen the drive belt and check all the things running off it spin freely and aren't near seized. Last silly thought is that the battery is getting drained while running, recovers enough to start after half an hours rest??? Doesn't make a lot of sense but I'd check both battery voltages under load , the alternator output and also if you have a major current drain like the bilge blower which is preventing enough current for the starter motor work. Bilge blowers can draw a lot of amps . Switching to second battery would prove this wrong anyway. Hope it isn't any form of hydraulic lock with water in the top of the motor but if it is freswater cooled you would notice and it wouldn't be running sweet with a stuffed head gasket anyway. All long straws but will be interesting what you find. I'd be running it up warm to diagnose it at home if that's where it is as being stranded on a Saturday is no fun. Good luck Edited January 23, 2008 by pelican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnno Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Just a wild idea is your starter getting stuck out once cool it pulls in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Just a wild idea is your starter getting stuck out once cool it pulls in Not so wild there Johnno, that exact thing happened to me in 06. Nice thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brfo1234 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 About the starter jumping out when hot and getting back in when cooled, good idea but the starter motor still turns the motor over but a huge struggle. We've tried connecting the jump starter direct to the starter motor, and it sounds still the same, very hard to turn over but slowly turns slowly. I hope to it isnt a hydralic lock, but i dont really think so, because its fresh water cooled and runs pretty good at the moment. I know the feeling about no fun when we have to wait for it to cool down, but we just tuned the engine so it wont stall so should still be all good for saturday. At least I'll be on the water hey. I will try taking the spark plugs out and turn over the motor, sounds easier. Thanks heaps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelican Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 About the starter jumping out when hot and getting back in when cooled, good idea but the starter motor still turns the motor over but a huge struggle. We've tried connecting the jump starter direct to the starter motor, and it sounds still the same, very hard to turn over but slowly turns slowly. I hope to it isnt a hydralic lock, but i dont really think so, because its fresh water cooled and runs pretty good at the moment. Nah you'd have noticed the coolant level or oil in the coolant I know the feeling about no fun when we have to wait for it to cool down, but we just tuned the engine so it wont stall so should still be all good for saturday. At least I'll be on the water hey. I will try taking the spark plugs out and turn over the motor, sounds easier. Thanks heaps... Out of ideas- solonoid with burnt points (not sure if it is intergrated into starter on your motor), stuffed starter motor (bearing , brushes , bushes or armature). Pull it off and give it to the auto electrician- can't think why hot or cold makes a difference unless it is a coincidence. You are headed down the right track if you can determin if there is any mechanical resistance or a dead starter. It is not very overfull of oil by any chance? Hope you sort it and hope you a member of the on water tow crowd or coast guard as it ain't the sort of motor I'd be puttin a rope on the flywheel and getting out and pushing never works for me on the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWANNABROCK Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 How hot is your motor getting? sounds more like engine overheating and piston's expanding in the block! the alloy pistons then cool down enough for starter to crank over. when was last service? can you check temperature of motor with a infared thermometer? check various points on motor to make sure the block is even temp with no hot spots indicating blocked water jacket ect. I would not keep using boat until you get this sorted. may be a simple thing such as battery leads corroded.but could very well be your motor about to say goodnight. have you checked engine oil and water levels lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boat Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Hi, I with Jewy on this one. When I first read this earlier today the first thing that came to mind was the engine was in fact seizing as you mentioned in your first post. If the pistons, like Jewy said, get too big for the bore and the engine locks up and after it cools back down you can crank again. If this is the case the engine would continue to seize or stop thru out the day and you will be causing big damage to the block by running it. If the problem does not keep on reoccuring than I am with the others and would say it is an electrical fault with wiring, starter etc. Let us know what you find, Cheers, Huey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brfo1234 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Will let you guys know what i find in the next couple of days the idea of the engine overheating and expanding is what we originally thought, just got to confirm it now by trying to turn it over with a spanner. About the info of damaging the engine when kept running like this, i don't like that idea lol But if it sounds better, we usually try crank it over when its hot right in the end of the day, because no need of soon restarting when we are at a fishing spot. Once we want to move, its all good. We have serviced the boat not long ago, and always check the coolant and oil levels... everything is up to scratch We were thinking of replacing the wiring looms, but just thinking, may do so soon. About taking the starter motor to a auto electrician, we done that already and this starter motor is up to scratch but hopefully it could be failing now, so its not a major problem. We also had a idea about one of the bearings gone inside the engine If cant fix this problem, i think its going to be time for a engine rebuild But if we can fix it (hopefully) we will leave the rebuild for bit later. Thanks heaps guys Also just to be bit more confusing, i remember my mate once checked the coolant levels right after it was hot maybe 5 minutes or so, and he managed to dip his finger in the coolant telling me its only warm. But we still had to wait about 20 or so minutes till it fired up easy That really confused me that day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brfo1234 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Ok guys, we had the engine warm in the yard, then stopped it. We then tried to start it, the problem occurred. We then tried to turn the motor over with the ratchet, couldn't. It was like jammed But we could turn it either way for about 1/4 of a twist before we will hear a clicking sound and stop. It hit us, the starter motor jamming up. We then took the starter motor out, tried to turn the engine over, and BOOM the engine spun freely Thank god for that its only a little problem. Well when we looked and inspected the starter. it was very loose, like a bush was missing right at the end, just after where it is on the flywheel, there will be a bush that is after that to keep it aligned. Well that was missing so alot of free play. Our diagnosis was that the starter motor was jamming up against the teeth after a run, and then the starter motor could turn over the engine as it was jammed, there fore sounding like a siezed engine. What we dont know, is how it would get unjammed after awhile? However this time when it got jammed, it stayed like that until we took the starter out. Looks like no boating for tomorrow Our motor is still running very strong, and only this little problem as set us back. Thanks heaps guys for all the advice and help Just to confirm it, is a bush suppose to be at the end of a starter motor ? Because nothing was there making the shaft have alot of free play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelican Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) Congratulations, bloody bendix not releasing on the starter. Should be a parts diagram on the net with a full breakdown for that motor so you can see if a part is missing. See here for parts listing and breakdown http://www.crowleymarine.com/parts.cfm Possibly your starter http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury_parts/1059/4.cfm Glad you found out what it is. Should be a simple fix as well. Would have been some swearing and brown pants when you couldn't turn it with the socket!!!!!! and then relief when you realised it was the starter Pel Edited January 25, 2008 by pelican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Just a wild idea is your starter getting stuck out once cool it pulls in Ah the sweet aroma of smugg eh Johnno Well done on sorting out the problem. Now all you need to do is get her back in the water & fish fish fish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWANNABROCK Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Congrats on finding issue, take it to a auto electrician first thing this morning.they maybe able to fix it for you today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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