Land-based Live Baits

[humesy]

Howdy y'all

When fishing landbased, in areas of limited current, I have found it hard to fish without tangles particularly when the water is only 4-5m deep. My rig is simple; a small running ball sinker, down to a swivel with leader and a hook. I dont really want to pin the fish to the bottom of a nice quiet river with too much lead but I must be giving them too much freedom as they are swimming some ugly tangles into my braid. A float doesn't seem like the answer unless the flow has stopped completely.

Should I fix the sinker?

Use more lead?

Use less lead?

I try to keep things fairly simple and normally would have 2 livies out. Last year I lost a good jew because the two livies had too much freedom and managed to become tangled before the fish hit.

All thoughts appreciated as usual.

Cheers

[luderick59]

hi humesy

put one down with heavy lead straight down with 60cm trace livey pinned behind head

the other out the back in the currant with less lead pinned in tail

good luck

peter

sorry thought you in a boat

Edited March 11, 2008 by luderick59

[brickman]

hey humesy,i fished landbased for years off the rocks for tailor kings and jew in that order,we never pined a livey on the deck with lead[not saying you should'nt]but instead floated it just off the bottom.the rig we used was balloon or boby cork good size ball sinker about 2 meters from beck and 1 meter leader[trying to keep the livey 1 meter off bottom,i found if you keep the livey off the bottom he spends all his time trying to get there in a paniked state, not swimming in circles fouling the main line

hope this helps brickman

[jewgaffer]

Hi Andrew. Pete's method has a lot to like about it.

You could experiment. Try the old struggling livey trick by trimming half of the bottom tail fin with a pair of scissors and see how that goes. Trimming the bottom tail fin slows the livey down and prevents it from swimming downwards and hiding in cover or burying in the sand.

You can also trim the top fin a small section at a time and see how how it swims and struggles before you cast it out. Trimming the top tail fin prevents the livie from swimming upwards on a running sinker. I have good reason to believe that a livie dragging a snapper lead along the bottom adds further interest for predators.

A livie presents as a better take when it is injured or doesn't swim perfectly, when there are either plenty of baitfish for the jewfish to chase or no other baitfish present at all.

I don't believe it necessary to have a livie swim like a heathy fish as a good quality lure is designed to do. In fact, having been hooked up once on a bait jig and then cast out again will certainly have a livie in full panic mode, and struggling against the hook/s and the line either under loose drag or well held in gear always blooms out and even that further resticts the fish's swimming ability which makes it easier work for a fossicking or hunting predator and therefore an easier take.

Cheers

jewgaffer

[humesy]

Thanks all

I am not sure there is a solution here just yet. Certainly some food for thought though.

For those who can be bothered reading I will try to explain the problem a bit further. I am fishing a quiet river, 4-5 metres deep, from the bank. I generally cast 15-20 metres. The livie goes to the bottom slowly with some lead but will generally have a chance to swim around on the way down. This may be where the tangles are happening. Once the lead hits the bottom, there is very little angle between the main line and the bottom. I have also been pinning livies behind the head which means they are probably swimming in circles around the lead, being pulled over onto their sides and getting tangled in the main line above the swivel/sinker. If a livie were to swim around a suspended sinker, there would not be a problem. A float would be possible to keep the lead up but with the flow of current (slow as it is), I would need to re-cast every few minutes. It work perfectly for the rocks but not a river.

Byron, you may have a point in clipping the livie to slow its swimming down. Pete, a livie pinned in the tail may prefer to swim away from the lead on the bottom. I am not sure how this would effect hook-up rates. One way to find out I suppose. Do I pin inder the lateral line in the tail or above? Under would seem like the better option but it might kill the fish sooner.

I hope this makes sense to someone and wasn't too tedious to read.

Cheers

[Josh88]

Pin it under the lateral line if its at the tail and your lead is on the bottom, but above is probably better if the sinker is suspended. Te only problem with pinning it in the tail is that it comes in backwards if you wind it back in, which doesn't suit it too much.

[luderick59]

i have found that hooking livy in the tail it swims upwards in the head downwards

peter

[coastspinna]

just use a float you cover more ground...as long as you know how deep it is you can put your livie 30 cm (fo poddys) off the bottom....

i pin mine thru the shoulder with wide gape hooks..

ian

[jewgaffer]

Thanks all

I am not sure there is a solution here just yet. Certainly some food for thought though.

..... I generally cast 15-20 metres. The livie goes to the bottom slowly with some lead but will generally have a chance to swim around on the way down. This may be where the tangles are happening. Once the lead hits the bottom, there is very little angle between the main line and the bottom........

Cheers

Hi Andrew I think I can see what's happening now. In this case you need to forget about using a swivel and run a shock leader off the main line to a blood knot with an appropriate size bean sinker running down the shock leader to a soft bead which will absorbs the weight of the sinker. The bead will also prevents wear on the line at your knot . Then use a metre of jinkai or shogun leader to your live bait hook/s to finish off.

This is where a bimini knot would be usefull for joining the mainline to the shock leader, you can also use any good slimline knot which will travel through the guides easily, cutting the tags short and at an angle prevents the tags catching and 2-3 metres is all you need to have for length of the shock leader.

The knot between the main line and the shock leader also acts as a stopper for the sinker and the stopper will shorten the distance for your livie to run and if it tries to run any further it will be pulling the sinker along, so you tighten your drag to have the livie struggling and this way it should always be buoyant and nicely above the bottom and it will increase the angle to the bottom which you mentioned .

There will also be no chance of any contact between the livie and the sinker and the livie should have a gentle landing when you cast because this way allows sinker separation as it hits the water

This will only give the livie a brief bit of freedom until the sinker takes up.

Rigging up this way should eliminate the problem for you Andrew.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Edited March 12, 2008 by jewgaffer