The Correct Way To Handle A Jewfish Run & Hook Up

[jewgaffer]

Hi Everyone.

There are a lot of diverse opinions on the best way to handle a jewfish run and hook up the fish, so I would like to take this opportunity to give my opinion on what I myself believe has proven to be the best way to handle a jewfish run and make sure of the hook up, which is one of the most, if not the most important factor when fishing for jewfish.

Now first of all jewfish don't bite and chew away as such, they generally attack from below and grasp their prey to crush the stomach and break the back from under with a vice like grip in their small, not so sharp "mouth teeth", aided by sheer jaw power alone rather by the type of teeth they have, before inhaling the bait in the next almost instantaneous movement, or in the case of a live bait, finally taking it head on and inhaling it straight down into their stomach in again an almost single motion, then locking the muscle which opens and closes their "second row of teeth" just above the gill area and the incorporated powerful muscle, which opens and closes the opening to the stomach takes over. And remember the second row of teeth gives the bait a second quick "softening up" right where the hooks come into it, giving the important hook up effect that you need, just before the bait or baitfish dissappears into the point of no return, the jewfish abyss!

This initial grasp from under for the initial "softening up" of a live bait can be sometimes felt as being a heavy bream bite but with the bite feel being transferred right down to a hard shudder in the grip handle of a rod. Sometimes you can actually feel the "bite" several times, some say it is always four times, bang, bang, bang, bang and four times does happen occasionally but not always.

At most other times all you see is the rod suddenly bending down hard and you always like to see the line peeling off the reel as the drag takes over and this happens more often than not with a reasonable size jewfish.

When running a large live bait, in my opinion and the opinion many others, perhaps a minority in numbers at that, who get consistent hook ups it's an absolute no brainer striking early on a jewfish.

This is how it works and it is the only time I myself or any of my friends in Ballina who have licences to sell fish do it. The jew possess the bait, we are there when they're feeding which they do like clockwork at the top of the tide and the run down for about an hour or so. The Richmond River at Ballina is no Hawkesbury, the marauding top of the tide jew are prolific when the bull mullet come in. Then it's all over the jewfish move on in a hurry and the pecking order changes when the bull sharks come for their share.

This pattern, as every Ballina jew fisherman will tell you is reliable like clockwork in a spot known as the gap which is a large alcove type area near the river mouth where visiting yachts etc come in, and a narrow opening which has both structure and depth and the inside area is a haven for baitfish.

Jewfish always grab a large livie from underneath and run off alone, pause, then crush the backbone of a big live bait like bull mullet bait for example from underneath. They then turn it around and inhale it whole during the next run off.

We then have to count to 10 and that applies to everyone of us before we strike.

If we hit on the first run the fish misses the hook, the hook being 8/0-10/0, with the barb standing up above the dorsel fin. A trailing hook if used is not guaranteed to be effective when the jew crushes the back from underneath, not with the ability of their small frontal teeth alone, but from the pincing power of the jaws transfered to those small frontal teeth which only act like the teeth on a pair of pliers. If you can picture a strong frontal pinch with a fish having a snout like hollow cavity mouth, that's how the jew mouth their live fish bait and its just like the grip of a pair of long nose pliers with a lot of gripping power behind them.

When I'm using small livies or dead baits, I have a very tight drag as do some others, just tight enough to hopefully all but cut my little finger when I test the drag for tightness when I'm using braid. My Fishraider jewfishing friends will attest to the ever present scars and fine cuts from braid line on both my little fingers which speaks for the tightness of the drag I use on jewfish.

The jew grabs hold of the bait in its mouth and inhales it even pulling hard at the drag and trying hard to pull the unknown along with it. It's this pulling power and the rod memory sets the hooks solid. When a jewfish tugs hard at an octopus clinging on for its life to a rock it's not just a snatch effect that comes into it, it's full on pulling power.

However note we are talking about small livies and big or small dead baits in the previous paragraph here, not large live baits which mean loose drag and only loose drag. Jew like to pull everything along with their take as they grip/chew hard on the bait, preparing it, "softening it', as they ready themselves in an instant or two to inhale the take.

That's when they hook themselves in the mouth without you striking the rod. Striking is something I never do on any fish whatsoever, except of course when I'm using any artificial baits whether they be SP's which I don't use often, or hardbodies or when I'm experimenting bottom jigging with immitation plastic squid etc. on my non casting Alvey straight down at th back of the boat. With jewfish, when the rod is bending away solid I simply lift the rod to make sure that I set the hooks in further and more solid. However that I think is more by habit and only a state of mind at the time as the jew has already hooked itself up solid on the tight drag with the rod left in the rod holder.

Anyway that's my opinion and the opinion of apparently only a small minority of others, and in the main there are far too many divided opinions when it's obvious there are not all that many right ways in doing anything so specific as hooking up jewfish properly.

Whatever gets fishermen hook ups with no early misses and no jew spit outs, they should stick to and do what they're doing best.

And remember always persevere. It's to each his own, it doesn't always have to be that way as there is often room for improvement in fishing methods and good luck with your own jewfish.

I hope you don't get too many early strike misses, and experience no jewfish spit outs. Just lean back, don't get exited pour a coffee , light up a durry, just let the rod do the work and just lift your rod evenly and smoothly like you're in slow motion, just relax, don't worry about taking up the slack in your line as they're shouldn't be any

Oh by the way why not use loose drag with big livies just enough for an occasional short run and do count to ten after the second run, the run after they pause for just a moment to turn the livie around, and why not use break neck tight drag as described above with small livies and all dead baits and just see how you go ay.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Edited March 14, 2008 by jewgaffer

[Josh88]

Great advice Jewgaffer, Thanks for sharing.

[caine]

i agree with everything said there

[brickman]

brilliant,pure gold,must be why your known as jewgaffer

great info mate thanks for that regards brickman

[mrmoshe]

Great advice again Byron, as usual.

All those years of experience is something you can't buy in a tackle shop.

Well done mate.

Cheers,

Pete.

[A-OX]

Nice one, that was very politely expressed.

Fello Raiders, my input to this site is very minimal but i do enjoy hours of good advise.

My catch of jew have always been as mentioned but i would like some advise on how to get the rod out of the rod holder.

[jewgaffer]

Nice one, that was very politely expressed.

Fello Raiders, my input to this site is very minimal but i do enjoy hours of good advise.

My catch of jew have always been as mentioned but i would like some advise on how to get the rod out of the rod holder.

Hi A-OX

When you say your catch of jew has always been as mentioned does that mean that you use the method mentioned in this topic.

In regard to you would like some advice on how to get the rod out of a rod holder.

There is only one way to do this. Grip the rod and lift upwards in the same direction of the angle of the rod holder.

Cheers

jewgaffer

[james7]

Great information Byron and fascinating reading.

I have a couple of quick questions.

If we hit on the first run the fish misses the hook, the hook being 8/0-10/0, with the barb standing up above the dorsel fin. A trailing hook if used is not guaranteed to be effective when the jew crushes the back from underneath …

When would you recommend using a trailing hook for jews? What size would you suggest? Are there only particular circumstances you'd use a trailing hook?

Do you always place the hook in the same position (i.e. up above the dorsal fin) in the live bait even for different types or sizes of fish? What I mean is, does it matter whether it's a tailor, yakka or whatever where you put the hook?

Lastly, how do you hook up dead baits?

Thanks again Byron

Cheers

Peter

[jewgaffer]

Great information Byron and fascinating reading.

I have a couple of quick questions.

When would you recommend using a trailing hook for jews? What size would you suggest? Are there only particular circumstances you'd use a trailing hook?

Do you always place the hook in the same position (i.e. up above the dorsal fin) in the live bait even for different types or sizes of fish? What I mean is, does it matter whether it's a tailor, yakka or whatever where you put the hook?

Lastly, how do you hook up dead baits?

Thanks again Byron

Cheers

Peter

Hi Peter I think the best way when rigging up a livie for jew or any other fish is to use two hooks, but that is only my opinion and I'll explain why.

I believe the ideal situation is one where the shank lies backwards flat against the fish and is held that way by the leader in between and the second hook, rather than suspending the livie using only one hook which in reality is the control hook that takes the weight of the livie leaving both the shank and the leader upright and in my opinion can cause both the shank and the leader to actually get in the way of a head take.

Using two hooks will keep the shank of the dorsal hook flat down against the fish as the leader in between the hooks tightens and allows that to happen when the second comes into play.

The second hook, a trebble if you wish can be pinned near the tail and will keep the shank of the top hook down and hold the bait, the leader and the line all in a straight line.

Sometimes depending on the size of the livie and the length of leader between the two hooks I might be inclined to put a couple of half hitches thru the tail as there is no need to have it swim perfectly. In fact a livie in trouble presents as an attractive take to a predator.

As to dead baits I like to keep the fillets straight the same way using two kooks. When I'm using whole squid I always pin the bottom hook thru the top of the tube and up between the eyes to keep the head intact and I find that hook is the main jew hookerupper!

With squid strips I don't like whole tubes opened up and flattened out, I like to hook fully stripped and skinned cuts together to make them a longer more streamlined bait, so that they flutter away in the current etc, and again you can achieve that effect by using two hooks. IE the bottom hook pins two overlapped longer lengths together. I also find that this method also presents well trolling for kingfish etc., using longer more streamlined baits to attract them rather than one wide rectangular bait.

If I use a squid head for bait I like to include about an inch of the tube but this time pinned into the tube, around and back between the eyes with the top hook, the control hook, with the bottom hook trailing away.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Edited March 17, 2008 by jewgaffer

[Sherwinator]

Hi Jewgaffa,

Just read your article and wanted to run something past you...

I am on a mission to get a Jew this year and have been putting in some hours off some known Jew spots but with no success.

I was fishing off the southern end of Wairo beach on the weekend (Ulladulla - South Coast NSW). I got a great Salmon just on dusk and was getting heaps of hits - I think they were mostly salmon.

Anyway I filleted my salmon and chucked a 20CM long fillet straight back out and left my rod in a rod holder (using 3 gang hooks). 10 mins later i notice some action on my rod so I grabbed it, then the line went slack, then I took the slack out and straight away my reel starts peeling in a big way. My rod is bent almost in half and this thing feel like a horse. I let it run for a good 2 mins (pretty firm drag set) and then I started to tighten the drag - at this point its taken a lot of line. Another 30 seconds of running and then I lost it!!!!

Got all my gear back - almost like it spat the hooks out. I thought it was a big ray just because if the power. It was a very steady run.

Does this sound like a Jew to you?

Cheers mate,

Paul

[jewgaffer]

Hi Jewgaffa,

Just read your article and wanted to run something past you...

...I am on a mission to get a Jew this year and have been putting in some hours off some known Jew spots but with no success.

.....I was fishing off the southern end of Wairo beach on the weekend (Ulladulla - South Coast NSW). I got a great Salmon just on dusk and was getting heaps of hits - I think they were mostly salmon.

......Anyway I filleted my salmon and chucked a 20CM long fillet straight back out and left my rod in a rod holder (using 3 gang hooks). 10 mins later i notice some action on my rod so I grabbed it, then the line went slack, then I took the slack out and straight away my reel starts peeling in a big way. My rod is bent almost in half and this thing feel like a horse. I let it run for a good 2 mins (pretty firm drag set) and then I started to tighten the drag - at this point its taken a lot of line. Another 30 seconds of running and then I lost it!!!!

.....Got all my gear back - almost like it spat the hooks out. I thought it was a big ray just because if the power. It was a very steady run.

......Does this sound like a Jew to you?

Cheers mate,

Paul

Hi Sherwinator to Fishraider

Paul there is a possibility that the hard run you had was a jewfish run, not going on speed so much but the distance the fish travelled away from you rather than a one on one eyeballing type run of a ray under sufference or perhaps one of the sluggish shark species... the fish you hooked up was still taking out more line on what was respectably tight drag by the sounds of it and I don't think it would have been a toothy shark due to the longer run straight out and the lack of side to side head on stuff....

I myself rig up appropriately for jewfish and more on the heavy side as I hate unnecessary bust offs and I use sporty rods for each species anyway..... Jewfish might be fussy and self sufficient but when it comes to hunting food, they are in no way a gentle or finnicky fish and even snatch and grab their food when fossicking for that matter..........

I don't allow jewfish to make much leaway at all and leave the rod in a solid holder and just let the run and the rod take care of the hookset as the jew comes to a split second stop before trying to pull against the drag....and... unless the fish is taking out line fast against the drag, I generally finish doing what I'm doing before I pick up the rod......

You certainly ran a good jewfish bait in rigging up a large salmon fillet at sundown when salmon were running..... I must say if any one of my ilk was using gangs on jewfish I would be somewhat concerned. Gangs are ok for salmon I suppose as salmon have a soft and rather delicate mouth for size considering their fighting ability, and with salmon it was always a case of not how many you could hook up but rather how many you would land.........Because of the number of pulled hooks when fighting salmon, salmon fisherman got used to using two or three hooks hoping at least one would stick and eventually got into using ready made gangs which is common practice these days for fishermen fishing for salmon.......

I have an idea that you know what I am going to say next, so I will leave it that until I read your reply.....However your rod having been bent solid like that using a reasonably tight drag, giving the fish leeway for so long, I will say that jewfish do not have a soft mouth like salmon, in fact far from it.....

what do you yourself think happened with the gangs?

Looking forward to your reply and going on from there. I like addressing questions like this from keen people like yourself trying to get things right rather than it's gotta be right just because it's them themselves doing it and not really having much of a result to show in the way of fish.

Cheers and thanks for the question

jewgaffer

Edited March 9, 2009 by jewgaffer

[tide'n'knots]

Hi byron, Very interesting that you prefer to fish with a loose drag on large live baits!

Personally I prefer to fillet large baits while they are fresh as in my personal experience I have always done better with a fresh fillet with oil and blood still oozing out, so I just sit the rod in the holder and as you say they pretty much hook themselves. I still strike when i pick the rod up but a bit like you I think its from habit and it seems to give me a little piece of mind knowing the hook has gone in properly. My way of fishing for jew means that generally my hook sizes are smaller as I want the fillet to flutter and waive in the current so generally a 4/0 is about as big as I would go (depending on fillet size) and pin the fillet in the end with the hook exposed- even a school jew can inhale supprisingly large slabs - hook and all.

geat information mate.

pete.

Ps I think sherwinater probably lost thet jew because the ganged hooks probably didnt have a wide enough gape to them and were probably buryed in the flesh thus hindering a solid hook up. I feel a single hook with a wide gape or two hooks rigged independently of each other would have worked better, what are your thoughts?

Edited March 9, 2009 by tide'n'knots

[Sherwinator]

Hey Jewgaffer,

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I will certainly take all the advice I can get... I hear what you are saying about using gang hooks for Jewies - never really considered that they might not be a good option...

Whats the best hook option when fishing with such large strips of bait?

What do I think happened to the gang hooks?

Well it felt like they just pulled out - maybe not a good hookup. It happened soon after I had tightened the drag up and there was no pause by the fish, it was just full on zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and then ................ slack line

Interestingly there was a small piece of salmon left on the last gang hook (the size of a 50c piece)... It definately wasn't a just larger salmon (having hooked a few that afternoon and knowing what they feel like) but the other thing I remember is that there were no head shakes...

Funny what you say about the gang hooks being more successful for salmon too. I had 2 lines out off the beach - one with 3 gangs and the other with a single larger hook. I hooked up 3 times on the single hook but lost every salmon! Only got 1 good hit on the 3 gang line and landed that fish...

Looking forward to your reply...

Sherwinator

[jewgaffer]

Hey Jewgaffer,

...... I hear what you are saying about using gang hooks for Jewies - never really considered that they might not be a good option...

............Whats the best hook option when fishing with such large strips of bait?............

........What do I think happened to the gang hooks?..........

Well it felt like they just pulled out - maybe not a good hookup. It happened soon after I had tightened the drag up and there was no pause by the fish, it was just full on zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and then ................ slack line ...............

......the other thing I remember is that there were no head shakes...

.........I hooked up 3 times on the single hook but lost every salmon! Only got 1 good hit on the 3 gang line and landed that fish...

Sherwinator

As to jewfish hooks on the beach, I would use Eagle Claw 8/0 to 10/0 octopus hooks or h/d chem sharp standard suicide pattern with a hold on sand claw sinker as a drop sinker fixed at the end of my rig for dead baits or even 8/0 Gammagatsu live bait hooks for dead or live bait........ the shorter the shank the less leverage even for solid mouth hook ups, but the short stubby Mustad hoodlum livie hook even in 8/0s are a bit thick in my opinion for long and narrow streamer baits which are good to use and will flutter around quite a bit in surf pull back or rip areas....... and a well weighted claw sinker will hold the bait where you cast it even if the surf or weed pulls your line in towards you it will only have a moderate effect ......

With gangs, the metal is long in the shank and not enough gape as tide'n'knots says meaning the centre hook and is yet another way of reducing your success rate as the centre hook has a habit of pivoting and work the other hook/s loose...... Not enough hook penetration for jewfish which have a hard palate and a hollow cavity mouth and are head shakers any situation that reduces your hook up or landing rate is best to avoid..... Early in the water release which is not what you want, that's for sure is assisted by using circle hooks unless they protrude thru the corner bone cavities and circles are another way of effecting your hook up rate and your success rate of landing your jewfish as the turn in the barb, tho strong, can actually work against solid mouth penetration in jewfish if you dont fluke the mouth corners first whether you use twin snells or singles.... Whereas gangs work one another looose particularly the middle one which doesn't penetrate far enough or turn properly independently which forces the other hook/s loose and that alone reduces your hook up rate and your landing rate for a prized species that you have tried so hard to catch.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Edited March 10, 2009 by jewgaffer

[Sherwinator]

Ok,

Great info gaffa. Thanks!

I'm going to make me a trip down to my tackle shop to get some better hooks...

Thanks again!

Sherwinator

[jewgaffer]

Hi byron, Very interesting that you prefer to fish with a loose drag on large live baits!

......... I feel a single hook with a wide gape or two hooks rigged independently of each other would have worked better, what are your thoughts?

Pete I rig small to medium size livies in the river so that they struggle to swim or so that they can swim out freely in the surf and out off the rocks, I give the livie a bit of encouragement to keep moving out as you dont want your livie swimming back to you....

When using live bait, keep an eye out for even line take up all the time ...otherwise stay alert anytime you see unusual slack in the line and deal with that one accordingly...... Sometimes flathead and jewfish take a bait and just move towards you slowly or stay on the bottom doing nothing....

I use near locked up drag on small to medium size live baits once the fish has settled and the same drag on dead baits on jewfish and most other species .....

As to using large livies on jewfish - When I cast out a big livie, I use that rod as hands on but only until the livie tires and stops taking line freely and then that rod goes back into the rod holder and so on..... In that case, it's best to have the drag just tight enough to allow the livie to struggle to make leeway for the reason that a struggling fish panics and attracts attention of predators in the vicinity..... However the drag should be loose enough so that a predator can run off with the bait freely without being loose enough to cause backlash in the line as the fish runs off...... Having said that, a jewfish crushes a live fish underneath the gut area, breaks the back bone, runs off with it, pauses and turns the fish around for the head take.....This is a critical moment in fishing for jewfish with large live baits.... if you dont do it right and get too eager and strike on the first run, the hooks being on the top of the fish are likely to be missed.... if you muck around with your rod or wind in to check your bait after the pause, again you are likely to miss the hook up......A jewfish fish might take off slowly not sensing anything wrong at that point, and as the line takes up again, the fish will feel restricted and will run off for freedom.... that's the point where you stop the reel with your hand and the sudden stop sets the hooks..... on hook up, turn the drag a couple of turns tighter each time the jewfish fights against the rod as you haven't preset the drag and that's where using bait runners comes in handy...

Pete The question you asked me about having hooks running independantly of one another..... that can be achieved by using a hook tied onto a running ring stopping at the eye of the resultant top hook of the final rig with a bead to prevent percussion from the ring on the line going into the other hook and use lumo tubing to make it stand rigid below the top hook which is the hook you tied directly to your leader... this two hook rig is a very good rig to use on many other species as well.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Edited March 11, 2009 by jewgaffer