Knots In Spiderweb

[slinkymalinky]

Hi all,

I just got hold of some 2lb Platypus Fluorocarbon Stealth Leader and true to my form... I rushed up to Go Fish Pete and bought a new Infeet rod for my 1000 Stradic. I'm planning to use the spider web leader on some fish like Salmon and Trevally (I figure that even a Slimey Mackerel will be a blast on this outfit).

And no, I'm not going to use it on fish destined for release... they'll be buggered... but the fun factor will be huge on even average fish.

Now my question... what are the best braid to leader knots for such light leader (my main line is 6lb Fireline at the moment and I got some new 6lb braid from Pete while I was there too).

I've doubled the main line of course but last night experimenting, knots like albrights and improved albrights seem impossible to effectively tighten up into a compact, non-slip knot with the super fine leader.

A double uni worked fine and I suppose I could double the end of the 2lb leader to preserve breaking strain??

With so little margin for error I need some techincal advice from any of you who fish spider web a lot (or maybe some of the 70's ANSA crew). Anything that doesn't preserve nearly 100% breaking strain or that damages the line when tied, is not going to work.

What do you reckon?

Cheers, Slinky

[warnie]

Hi all,

I just got hold of some 2lb Platypus Fluorocarbon Stealth Leader and true to my form... I rushed up to Go Fish Pete and bought a new Infeet rod for my 1000 Stradic. I'm planning to use the spider web leader on some fish like Salmon and Trevally (I figure that even a Slimey Mackerel will be a blast on this outfit).

And no, I'm not going to use it on fish destined for release... they'll be buggered... but the fun factor will be huge on even average fish.

Now my question... what are the best braid to leader knots for such light leader (my main line is 6lb Fireline at the moment and I got some new 6lb braid from Pete while I was there too).

I've doubled the main line of course but last night experimenting, knots like albrights and improved albrights seem impossible to effectively tighten up into a compact, non-slip knot with the super fine leader.

A double uni worked fine and I suppose I could double the end of the 2lb leader to preserve breaking strain??

With so little margin for error I need some techincal advice from any of you who fish spider web a lot (or maybe some of the 70's ANSA crew). Anything that doesn't preserve nearly 100% breaking strain or that damages the line when tied, is not going to work.

What do you reckon?

Cheers, Slinky

Slinky

Take a seat and sit down tonight and muck around and do yourself a "Tony Jones' leader knot......have used

from spiderwire (admittably not quite 2 lb though ) up to the heavyweight class for y/fin and never had dramas..

close to that 100% your looking for................but hell 2lb!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anyway youv'e nothing to loose and everthing

to gain so muck away.....

Cheers Warnie....

[Kruzenvax]

Have you tired slim beauty? I use it a lot - never had a trouble.

[Dreamtime]

Have you tired slim beauty? I use it a lot - never had a trouble.

Yeh, I married her!

[jewgaffer]

Slinky The double centauri knot is another good one for finer thread. Being quick and easy to tie, I also use it on braid to heavy leader and when I can't be bothered tying on another swivel for braid to mono

Cheers

jewgaffer

[slinkymalinky]

Thanks Kruzen... I'll try the slim beauty and thanks Jewgaffer... I'll also try the double centauri that you kindly showed me when we went out together.

I might even go to the trouble to test them on the scales to see how they do in the light line. This is one where 'near enough' certainly won't be good enough. I'll do 3 tests with each knot & post the results.

Cheers, Slinky

[warnie]

With so little margin for error I need some techincal advice from any of you who fish spider web a lot (or maybe some of the 70's ANSA crew). Anything that doesn't preserve nearly 100% breaking strain or that damages the line when tied, is not going to work.

What do you reckon?

Cheers, Slinky

Slinky....

I would imagine you have been spending a bit of time of late trying differant leader knot's in light of

what have been suggested to you........ i am confident you will find all to your liking

although one in particular will appeal to you above all which is good!!!!!!!! for having confidence in your

tackle and in particular knots is paramount so in that regard all good............

being an ex ANSA representive myself all that does for me is reconfirm for me and i couldn't speak

for any one else...from that period of time to now that the greater test being trying to succesfully thread the 2lb leader through the eye of whatever its going to go through.....with out biting my tongue off in the process.

let me know what you end up deciding on as it's always nice to be able to store the info in the think tank..

Cheers Warnie.....

[Kruzenvax]

Slinky,

What I'd suggest for tying (and testing) the slim beauty: this knot is - effectively - a 2-part knot. 2nd part that you tie with braid is the same knot (I don't recall the name) as recommended in the "Book" to tie braid to swiwels, etc. The 1st part that you tie with the leader - "classical" slim beauty suggests tying a "granny" knot and threading braid throught the figure of 8. What I have discovered (tired to test but I don't have the rights scales) is it is faster (especially for thinner lines) to tie a uni with the leader aroind the braid instead - and there is no loss of strength.

I hope I explained it clearly, sorry, if not.

Cheers

Thanks Kruzen... I'll try the slim beauty and thanks Jewgaffer... I'll also try the double centauri that you kindly showed me when we went out together.

I might even go to the trouble to test them on the scales to see how they do in the light line. This is one where 'near enough' certainly won't be good enough. I'll do 3 tests with each knot & post the results.

Cheers, Slinky

[slinkymalinky]

I'm surrounded by little shreds of line!!

I've been tying dozens of knots in line I can barely see so I think I'm now going to have to see my optometrist. Anyway, heres the results if you're interested.... (all breaking marks are the average of 3 tests using Platypus fluorocarbon Stealth Leader 2lb tying to 4lb Platypus Super Braid)

Double Centauri:

leader to braid double - knot slipped 3 times

leader to braid single - 1.5lb, broke at knot

Double Uni:

leader to braid double - 1.8lb, broke at knot

leader to braid single - 1.8lb, broke at knot

doubled leader (using bimini) to braid double - 1.95lb, broke once at leader bimini and 2 times in main leader

Slim Beauty:

leader to braid double only - 1.8lb, broke at knot

NOTE: this was a much harder knot to tie well in the spider web than the double uni.

Summary:- there's no point doubling the main braid with such a light leader (which is no surprise when you think about it since a double is meant to stop the main line breaking when using heavier leaders and in this case it's the leader that's the weak point).

The double centauri which I know is a very strong knot in slightly heavier lines doesn't suit the light braid, ultr light leader combination. Probably due to the variance in diameter between the 2.

The double Uni and Slim Beauty using a single strand leader are no different in performance.

BUT... if you really want to get serious using spider web.... double the leader before attaching to the main line. Again, it makes sense. The leader is the weakest link so a well tied bimini or even plaited double will best preserve the breaking strain of the leader in the connection to a slightly heavier braid main line.

I'll be using a double uni for simplicitys sake although I may at least start the day with a double in my leader (I'd go blind trying to tie a bimini in 2lb leader on the water).

Cheers, Slinky

Edited June 20, 2008 by slinkymalinky

[jewgaffer]

I'm surrounded by little shreds of line!!

..........Double Centauri:

leader to braid double - knot slipped 3 times

leader to braid single - 1.5lb, broke at knot.......

The double centauri which I know is a very strong knot in slightly heavier lines doesn't suit the light braid, ultr light leader combination. Probably due to the variance in diameter between the 2.

.............The double Uni and Slim Beauty using a single strand leader are no different in performance.

............I'll be using a double uni for simplicitys sake although I may at least start the day with a double in my leader (I'd go blind trying to tie a bimini in 2lb leader on the water).

Cheers, Slinky

Slinky We can't have knot slippage like that with the double centauri or the single with more coils for that matter.

Remember on your boat my calling the quick knot I tied the "Mediterranean" Centuri knot when the leader was too short for even a uni snell when I had to replace the second hook?

This knot is a top knot for very heavy lines as well as the lightest which only require more wraps.

Here's how I tie it.

1. Take the braid first and lay it along the leader from left to right, leaving about a foot of one past the other.

2. Double the braid only at the tag so you can twist and grip that very thin line for better handling and later use a doubled end for passing a thin braid or leader like that thru hooks, swivels and rod guides etc

3. With the braid, tie six simple half hitches directly around the leader, and hold the half hitches in order tightly with your thumbnail, and keeping the half hitches small and all around the same size so they do not overlap.

4. Thread the double line tag back towards your left, going under the bottom of the leader and the wraps of half hitches and thread it thru the half hitch six coils (wraps) from left to right keeping the tag above the leader section enclosed by the half hitches as you push it thru.

4. Do four wraps in that size leader as that size does not pro rate for the number of loops as line size goes down past a certain point. Repeat the process above and tighten up well and pull the braid and the leader slowly together after a spray of WD40, a fish attractant but here we go controversial I Suppose lol

Let's know how that goes in test Tony but watch the wraps as you tighten up each side and don't have the braid cut into the mono because that is one of the added benefits of chosing this knot for light lines like that.

Tony I would be very surprised if you don't get a better test result with this knot on your ultra light line

Cheers

jewgaffer

[slinkymalinky]

I'll give that a try and let you know how I go Byron. I was only using 2 coils on each side... hence the slippage. I think the limitation one way or another is going to be the breaking strain of the leader, which is of course what I should aim for. Any knot that breaks before the line itself is a weak point in the rig. I'll try the centauri the Jewgaffer way and see if it gets me out of having to tie a double in the leader.

stay tuned.

Cheers, Slinky

[slinkymalinky]

Jewgaffer's Centauri

leader to single braid average 1.9lb (broke in line 3 times... did not break at knot).

Allowing for margin of error in my agricultural methodology, I believe Jewgaffer is right (was there ever any doubt??).

Jewgaffer's centauri is a 100% knot (or so close to it that it doesn't matter) and negates the need for me to tie a double in the leader.

Thanks Byron... you've done it again. Now I have to go and clean up all the little bits of line again.

Cheers, Slinky

[Kruzenvax]

Slinky,

What do you use for yor tests? E.g. what scales? I had fifferent results (differemt lines though) but my ktchen scales are rubbish. Thinking about using these scales for setting drags...

[GregL]

We fish 3lb leaders alot while breaming, Double uni with 8 turns in braid side and 5 turns in leader side is all we use.

Play with different leaders as some knot better than others specially the slipping bit.

Worst leader for that we found has been Vanish for knot slippage.

We use Sunline, Unitika and Fulling Mills FC as leader in the super light stuff.

Freaks me out on how much pressure you can actually fish threw such light lines.

Greg

[1975]

We fish 3lb leaders alot while breaming, Double uni with 8 turns in braid side and 5 turns in leader side is all we use.

Greg

is that with 4lb braid? would you make any changes for 6lb braid?

thanks

Billy

[GregL]

is that with 4lb braid? would you make any changes for 6lb braid?

thanks

Billy

I run a few different braids on my bream outfits, all are between 2-6lb. I use the same knot and same turns as the braids so thin compared to the leader material.

If the leader is thicker, say 6lb+, I'll cut down to 5 turns in leader but still keep 8 turns in the braid to try even the knot up to aid in casting.

Remember the braid side of the knot goes threw the guides first. If you use a few more turns it bulks it up a little, this helps smoothing out the line difference which should give you smoother casting. This is important for longer and more accurate casting.

It also helps with line fatigue, when you cast over 1000 casts a day and the knot running in and out, a tappered knot will give you less resistance.

With my larger outfits when using 15lb leader 10lb braid I'll cut a turn or two out on both sides to try slim the knot down slightly.

Any higher I usually go to doubles and the "no name knot".

Greg

[slinkymalinky]

Slinky,

What do you use for yor tests? E.g. what scales? I had fifferent results (differemt lines though) but my ktchen scales are rubbish. Thinking about using these scales for setting drags...

I use a set of spring scales that I have from my trout fishing days. I wouldn't think their accuracy would hold up in court but they're pretty close (when I first got them I used marked weights to test them) but as I said, my test was pretty agricultural. What's more important in my view is that some of the knots broke and some didn't. I'll use the ones that didn't.

I've noticed always that different lines can give very different results.

Cheers, Slinky