Spiral Wrap Rods?

[slinkymalinky]

Hi all,

Just wondered whether any of you are engineers and know whether the spiral wrapped baitcasters are a good idea. Obviously they catch fish (seen plenty of them on telly) but I would have thought that spiralling the runners around a rod blank would impart a twisting force on the blank... that can't be a good thing can it? Surely it reduces casting distance too??

I noticed that Shimano now have a couple of off-the-rack rods with spiral runners. I wouldn't trust one but what do you reckon?

Cheers, Slinky

[gretsch]

Slinky

I have actually read the opposite. There is a train of thought that a baitcasting rod with all guides mounted on the top had more rotational force on it than a spiral. The spiral has only the first three guides applying any rotational force or "twist" ratehr than the full compliment on a traditional bait caster.

Check out this comment from one of the US builders:

The purpose of wrapping a rod with the guides spiraling to the bottom of the rod is twofold. First, there is no torsion or twisting force on the blank when the rod is under a load. Second, the rod is more stable under a load and the angler does not have to make an effort to keep the rod up with the guides facing up.

Torsion is the twisting force on a loaded rod. This effect is most pronounced toward the tip of the rod. The tip of the rod is significantly thinner than the butt and therefore cannot withstand the same amount of torsion as the thick butt end can. Many anglers have noticed that their rod tips are often completely turned over when they are fighting a fish. This repeated twisting weakens the blank and would explain why many rods tend to break near the tip.

Many believe that a properly spined blank will resist the effects of torsion, however, it makes no difference how the rod is spined. Torsion will always win over the spine. On a spiral wrapped rod, a tip will never twist because the line is already at the lowest point Ð the bottom of the rod. When a fish is on end of the line, the line is being pulled down and toward the fish.

Spiral wrapped rods are more stable fish fighting tools. With the guides on the bottom, there is no twisting force from the line seeking the lowest point. The angler doesnÕt have to fight to keep the rod upright. If the angler cannot keep the guides perfectly in line on a conventional rod while fighting a fish, the line and guides will create torsion as the line tries to go under the rod toward the fish.

Another common misconception about spiral wrapped rods is that they do not cast well. A correctly built spiral wrapped rod casts no differently than a conventional rod with the guides on top. The longest spiral wrapped rod I have built is a Seeker Ulua (9'3") and it casts no differently than my other conventional jigstick. The only noticeable difference takes place only after a fish is pulling on the other end; the rod is stable and no energy is spent fighting to keep the rod upright.

My largest fish on an acid wrapped rod is a 65# yellowfin. The blank is a GUSA 70xxh paired with a Shimano Trinidad 40. It is built without a gimbal, but at no point did the rod want to turn over while fighting the fish. In addition to that rod, numerous yellowtail and a single albacore were caught on the Seeker Ulua with the same results.

Until recently, the only limit to spiral wrapped rods was that only ringed guides could be used. There was no way to use standard roller guides to move the line to the bottom of the rod. Fortunately, All-American Roller Guides now has "acid rollers" available. Will rods using these acid rollers become more common on long range trips? No one can say for sure. It is a hard sell to get anglers to even try these rods, but those who try them in earnest will likely be sold on them.

Advancements in all fields, not just in fishing, are often the results of a few daring individuals who are not satisfied with the status quo. Without any advancements, can you imagine what fishing would be like today? We would still be chasing fish in canoes using handlines with hooks made of bone or tortoise shell...at least until we drop off the edge of the flat world.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Cephalopod

[netic]

I have just got a new Smith spiral wrap for downrigging and its awesome, the best way to go for any overhead reel...

[johnno]

You have been looking at the starlo stix,s

Personallly i think it would slow casting line speed down

but it depends if you are using it to bottom bash or cast lures etc etc.

[GregL]

Hi Slinky

I bought a custom Millrods spiral wrap Blademaster light a few years ago for bassing. 1 trip away I had 2 more on order! They cast better, zero rod twist compared to my standard Loomis rods I use to run and they just feel so much better under load.

2 years ago I was going North for a trip out on the reef. I had a Custom Millerods Ultimate Jigger in spiral wrap format made up to fit with a Daiwa SLT20 game reel loaded with 100lb braid. On big fish and rediculous loads there was still no rod twist! The format just works and zero chance of line rubbing on the blank.

This year while fishing for tunas I brang in a Smiths jigging rod from Japan. It's a tinny 4.4ft long! Made for jigging 200m+ of water fishing straight up and down in a standard format. Even at this length it still has rod twist when hooked up and this is on a narrow spooled I'ze Factory jigging reel.(it's a blinged up Saltiga Z40 overhead) Now I'm in the hunt for a super short blank to get one made up in spiral wrap format as the rod itself worked a treat on the tunas.

I don't think I will ever buy a conventional overhead rod again unless it runs rollers for mono.

Cheers

Greg

[slinkymalinky]

Thanks all,

You can tell I'm not an engineer. Seems like they've got some serious fans. I might see if I can get hold of one to try it out. Anyone know of a factory roll in the 10-15kg area, about 5-7' long, to suit a Daiwa Saltist for kingie bashing?

Cheer, Slinky

[hottyscotty]

I think you'll need to get that custom made

The heaviest i've came across off the rack is Starlo Stix Tournament 4-7kg

[GregL]

Thanks all,

You can tell I'm not an engineer. Seems like they've got some serious fans. I might see if I can get hold of one to try it out. Anyone know of a factory roll in the 10-15kg area, about 5-7' long, to suit a Daiwa Saltist for kingie bashing?

Cheer, Slinky

The Millerods Camoufish series in the Barra range would be the go for a "off the rack" rod. They are rated 8-15kgs and throw lures to 45gms. They are nice and long to give you a bit of give when fishing braid not like the old style bait caster rods designed for mono. Other than that full custom is the only other option at the moment.

Greg

[hottyscotty]

unless you've got good connections with ian, i don't think you'll get the rods soon enough. i was close to getting one thru otto's but they said wait abt 6 months for it.

But Greg, you seem like a VIP, might have to go thru you hahaha j/k

[gretsch]

I have bought a few direct.. 4-6 weeks wait.

[GregL]

Hey Scotty

I wish!

Around 20 full custom rods later.......

Mine usually take 6 months min as I buy the Millernium Series plus Gold Cermet guides and some custom thread work as well.

The best one was my sons rod. I asked for a full custom rod to be built up. The series is now called the Wharfie Jr, it was a 15 month wait, in the end it still was worth it, Jeremy just loves it.

I think the quickest custom was my jigging rod, Ian did it for a favor for me as I needed something special for a trip up north. I got it in about 2 months once we sorted what blank to use.

These are high performace rods and like all high performance things they must be treated with respect. Yes I have broken a few but I just send them back, they strip it down and roll it back on a new blank for me at a fraction of the price of a new one.

I have ever only bought 3 brands of custom rods. All have been good but I like Ian's blanks that he sauces and the finish on them are superb. Now with so many it's nice to have matching outfits

I would say any custom rod builder worth using, you would expect a wait. The more bling you put on the longer again as they have to get the parts in if they aren't normally used.

Just remember they can't epoxy them at any old time. Conditions must be right or they won't dry clear.

All good things come to tho's who wait.....

Greg