Jetties

[Juzza]

Just wondering if there is a jetty coming off someone's property and it is acessable by land ie walking along the rocks. Are you allowed to use it to park your boat on it/fish off it/do 'stuff' on it, particularly if its not yours. I recall that you can, but does anyone have articles/the legislation on this?

Thanks,

Justin

[andrew399]

If its coming off someones property then it is pretty much definatley a private jetty, so no you are not allowed to use it. The owner pays for it to get put in and for all maintenance etc so that should be respected, ie you would not want someone to come to your front lawn and start playing a game of cricket...

[Juzza]

Mmm well, this has happened to our jetty a few times...its the one that sticks out the most in the bay (so i think it happens more to us). Its accessible via land at low tide, but its connected to our backyard. We pay the maintence/fees etc etc, so its kinda annoys us (especially my parents) when people use it as a pick up point/ fishing/....even have a few people drinking a few beers at night!

Using it as a pickup point is reasonable...except they walk in our backyard to get there!!! Just today someone walk onto the jetty while i was there studying. They were acting as if they owned the place or had the right to be there, they didnt even ask . Didnt know if i should of said anything, but it kinda bugs me, so i just wanted to make sure whats my 'rights'.

Anymore comments would be great,

Justin

[tide'n'knots]

Mmm well, this has happened to our jetty a few times...its the one that sticks out the most in the bay (so i think it happens more to us). Its accessible via land at low tide, but its connected to our backyard. We pay the maintence/fees etc etc, so its kinda annoys us (especially my parents) when people use it as a pick up point/ fishing/....even have a few people drinking a few beers at night!

Using it as a pickup point is reasonable...except they walk in our backyard to get there!!! Just today someone walk onto the jetty while i was there studying. They were acting as if they owned the place or had the right to be there, they didnt even ask . Didnt know if i should of said anything, but it kinda bugs me, so i just wanted to make sure whats my 'rights'.

Anymore comments would be great,

Justin

If I owned a jetty and someone ASKED if they could use it - I wouldnt object as long as they did the right thing and it didnt interfere with anything I was doing, however to just walk in like you own the place is just downright rude! tell them to P##SS off! I think you would be quite within your rights.

[Kit]

If they were walking in your backyard (and your private jetty) then that would be tresspassing.

Perhaps you could put up some signs to say it is private property and a private jetty.

I would also speak to the police to see what you can do.

I wouldn't get abusive at the tresspassers though.. Just tell them politely that it is a private jetty... most of them probably don't even know its private..

Those that know its private and still choose to use it don't have any respect for your property; so being abusive might make them have even less respect for other parts of your property.

Chris

[arpie]

That is a bit on the nose, Justin!! I'd be highly offended, too, especially if I was there, watching them, like you were!!

Definitely put a sign up (on the edge of the property, not just on the jetty) Indicating Private Property, Jetty for Private Use Only, No Trespassing. If you see other people doing the same thing after the signs are up, perhaps take their photo & drop in to the cops to see what can be done about it.

I wouldn't confront them, in case it turns ugly

Some folk are just plain ARROGANT!!

Good luck

Roberta

[pelican]

This is going to cause a stink and always will

You need to get legal advice but 3 years ago there was some big write ups on this in the Sydney papers and it relates to non exclusive use. The publicity came about as many clubs had waterfront facilities that were only being charged peppercorn rent for jettys. The waterways then wanted a commercial value placed on all use of it's land (sea bed) and changed many of the terms and placed people on new leases. I know of several that went from $X000 to to tens of thousands overnight including sea scouts and other community not for profits.

In theory the pontoon or jetty is a lease and part of that standard lease allows access so in theory somneone from beyond the high water mark ( on foot or on a boat) can have access.

This may have changed in the last 3 years but I know a point was made by a boat that pulled up to a Rose Bay jetty and owner could do little to move him on even after police were called. That jetty now has marks on the jetty of the exact high water mark boundary done by a surveyor and subsequently people have been charged with trespass from camera footage of them crossing that mark.

The other case that went to court was public access at , I think seven shillings beach down near double bay where old property titles and errosion actually had houseowners owning the the whole beach and they wanted to put a gate on it.

I have no idea if the wording on leases has been changed or the law but.........

Like all others it is just plain rude and you would want to know the law very well as there is not only 1 standard lease as waterways goes through many years of transition as new leases are imposed on new owners of waterfront properties when they are sold.

My rule is stay away from anyone elses property no matter what , that includes the rude practice I see all the time of fishermen tying up to moored boats is pretty rank. Either way you risk the owner of the jetty or boat charging you with damage , even if you didn't do it and the owner will likely win unless you have very deep pockets.

In every case I have wanted to use a wharf I have asked in advance and haven't been turned down. As part of clubs I am a member of we do not allow any fishing from the wharves whatsoever as when we did we had club members complaining about the rubbish, smell and line left all over the place ( that was from fellow members) and the final straw was 100m of braid that seized a members driveshaft bearing and involved the club paying to get it fixed. Insurance company then set out that a member would have to inspect the wharf XX times a day before and after any access to check for sharp hooks and trip hazards - so we banned all fishing.

Anyone who wants to pull up at clifton gardens shouls also spend the time to check for line off their prop at the end of day because there is so much line down there it is scarey.

We have had to warn off with legal letters some water taxi operators who were damaging a wharf as they persisted as they said we couldn't do anything. They stopped or risked paying for thousands of dollars in damage tp a floating pontoon.

Common sense gone mad

Edited November 17, 2008 by pelican

[locodave]

Get a doberman or a german shephard, should fix things up

[andrew399]

Either way, a few well displayed signs saying private wharf tresspassers will be prosecuted would deter 90% of people i would think...

[tide'n'knots]

my attitude may be slightly incorrect and I suppose could draw hostility however I find it very hard to bite my tongue. (thats just me)

Just cant stand arrogance. It costs nothing to be polite and ask! particularly if your on the bloody jetty, how hard is it to open your mouth and ask permission - how downright rude!

I still say tell them to p#ss off! but maybe put up some signs first, that way they really have no excuse for being there!

At least a sign just might teach these ignoramouses to have some manners and ask. Even with a sign there it costs nothing to ASK.

hope you find a suitable solution.

Pete.

[Kit]

A good (but expensive) solution is to have a gate on the bridge to the Jetty.

That way, people from the ground or your backyard can't get onto the Jetty, and people from the water can't get onto land.

Like the types you see at marinas where it has a lot of overhang so people can't climb around it.

[jewgaffer]

The way ignorant jetty mutes are these days you are better off putting up signs encouraging them to set up on your jetty and then allowing unskilled heavy metal bands to have somewhere to practice.

Cheers

jewgaffer

[pelican]

A good (but expensive) solution is to have a gate on the bridge to the Jetty.

That way, people from the ground or your backyard can't get onto the Jetty, and people from the water can't get onto land.

Like the types you see at marinas where it has a lot of overhang so people can't climb around it.

You now have to apply and get approval to do that sort of modification or any modification and I'll bet it is deemed unsightly and will not be allowed. Can't even put an esky as a seat on a mates wharf permanently. Nothing can be left on the new ramp as it is weldmesh to let light through so a kayak can't officially be left on as it may kill off sea grass. That would be the seagrass that dies 100 years ago with tributal tin antifoul and before the rivercats stirred up and left a layer of silt in the area.

Waterways have now taken photos of all existing wharfs and jettys both from the air and water which it uses when there are complaints on modifications. Councils have also done similar after any new installation or modification.

Nothing is simple when it comes to jettys let alone cheap.

Signs are the start and get the neighbours to do the same but be very cautious on any modifications or restrictions below the mean high tide mark as it gets complicated

Edited November 18, 2008 by pelican

[Juzza]

If they would have asked, it would have been a different story (even better if it was in advance). Its most unerving when you're washing the dishes and you look outside and someone is walking around at the back of your house. That being said, for the people that have asked we have allowed them to use it as a pickup point. Even so, we'd prefer people not to take advantage of this.

Anyway, heres a few pics taken from today:

Heres the back of my house and the beggining of the jetty

Heres where people acess the jetty, by walking along the bank usually crossing everyone elses backyard. just to get to the jetty. Right now its a really big high tide, taken at the peak (1.78).

Private property?!!! Ahahah

Justin

Edited November 19, 2008 by Juzza

[pelican]

Release the hounds

Well that would be nice to do.

It realy sux. As a kid we used to play football across the front a a mates waterfront place and there 3 neighbours yards - there was no fences and it was brilliant and all the owners had kids or knew us and were happy we were about. One big shared backyard so to speak. An old bloke ( well old to us) asked if he could fish out the front and did so for years and was brilliant as they got a fish now and then left on the back doorstep and he kept the riff raff away by just being there. By the time his parents had sold to go into an oldies home there was high securtiy fences on every boundary right down to the waters edge. Not enough room left to kick a ball and no way of retrieving it now. That happened gradually over the years due to inconsiderate people, fishermen , access by thieves , megamansions to teh waters edge and the whole sense of community was lost between those houses and they barely knew their neighbours in the end.

Just can't believe people are so rude and obnoxious to enter areas that are obviously private regardless of loopholes in leases ( if they still exist) Couldn't help myself but to ask the police to move them on at high tide so they have to walk out up to their armpits or if they want to go via the yard they can accept the trespass charge and the ride in the paddy wagon. At least they would tell their mates it is off the list of places to go.

Some people just have no respect or sense of boundaries. Wonder what they would do if you were in their backyard dirinking a few coldies and dropping the bottles on their concrete while only their mum was home of a late evening??? Bet they would feel different - well I at least hope they would.

PS Your sign may need to be in several languages if it is older blokes but young blokes - no excuses

Edited November 18, 2008 by pelican

[GregL]

Mum has similar situations at her place.

One time I was staying over, after a very heavy night on the cans, I was woken by ferrel kids and their father playing on the jetty and beach out back.

Standing there naked at the window got them moving

[Jeff]

A good (but expensive) solution is to have a gate on the bridge to the Jetty.

That way, people from the ground or your backyard can't get onto the Jetty, and people from the water can't get onto land.

Like the types you see at marinas where it has a lot of overhang so people can't climb around it.

My parents own a part share of a jetty at Woy Woy. The jetty has a gate on it near the end to deter people other than the owners using it. The law as it applies to this jetty states that boats must be able to use the jetty in an emergency. This means the gate must be able to be opened without a key from the water side.

Because the public can access the jetty (despite the no trespassing sign and gate) the other must have item is public liability insurance.

Cheers,

Jeff

[trungie]

Anyway, heres a few pics taken from today:

<snip/>

Justin

*gasp* nice!

Juzza, i am officially asking if i can use your private jetty heh.

[tan the fisherman]

If they were walking in your backyard (and your private jetty) then that would be tresspassing.

Chris

not quite true - anyone can approach your front door/jetty. HOWEVER, should you ask them to leave and they refuse or do not leave - only then they are trespassing. You are then entitled to have them removed from your property.

Just thought I'd add that - anyway signs are up - if people refuse to leave, call water police and/or landbased cops - it is your jetty after all.

[pelican]

not quite true - anyone can approach your front door/jetty. HOWEVER, should you ask them to leave and they refuse or do not leave - only then they are trespassing. You are then entitled to have them removed from your property.

Just thought I'd add that - anyway signs are up - if people refuse to leave, call water police and/or landbased cops - it is your jetty after all.

I know what you mean but

I don't think a jetty ( well I hope not) would be be considered normal access unless you were on a water only access property like up at Hawksbury - Bar point etc. Would only be valid if it was the only access. Anyone who accessed a Jetty of mine and walked up to the back door would be in for a surprise - release the hounds.

maybe no entry and no access other than by owner is required.

[johnv]

this is my thoughts only, i think if it not yours you DONT enter, touch , or take. youjust stay away or off it .....

{ PUT A SIGN UP TRESPASSES WIL BE SHOT ENTER AR OWN RISK }

go back to the olden days

cheers john

[locodave]

mate where do you live? I'm coming to your jetty un invited, looks good

[Juzza]

I better take the middle picture out, because i might find a bunch of fishraiders fishing in my backyard on the weekend Thanks for the info, ill have a think about the ones so far.

1. Buy a Dog

2. Stand outside nude and they'll eventualy leave...

3. Ask them to leave??? Call water police etc if it gets out of hand

4. Build something to deter them coming in: abiding by maritime rules and stuff (lots of paper work)

3 sounds great, possibly 4, not sure about 1, probably not 2 =D

Justin

[johnv]

just remember you do have right as the land owner u will have to check these out ;;;;

but also remember that when people do tresspass they also do have rights;;i would be ckecking it out with a legal person first

cheers john

[tide'n'knots]

Release the hounds

Well that would be nice to do.

It realy sux. As a kid we used to play football across the front a a mates waterfront place and there 3 neighbours yards - there was no fences and it was brilliant and all the owners had kids or knew us and were happy we were about. One big shared backyard so to speak. An old bloke ( well old to us) asked if he could fish out the front and did so for years and was brilliant as they got a fish now and then left on the back doorstep and he kept the riff raff away by just being there. By the time his parents had sold to go into an oldies home there was high securtiy fences on every boundary right down to the waters edge. Not enough room left to kick a ball and no way of retrieving it now. That happened gradually over the years due to inconsiderate people, fishermen , access by thieves , megamansions to teh waters edge and the whole sense of community was lost between those houses and they barely knew their neighbours in the end.

Just can't believe people are so rude and obnoxious to enter areas that are obviously private regardless of loopholes in leases ( if they still exist) Couldn't help myself but to ask the police to move them on at high tide so they have to walk out up to their armpits or if they want to go via the yard they can accept the trespass charge and the ride in the paddy wagon. At least they would tell their mates it is off the list of places to go.

Some people just have no respect or sense of boundaries. Wonder what they would do if you were in their backyard dirinking a few coldies and dropping the bottles on their concrete while only their mum was home of a late evening??? Bet they would feel different - well I at least hope they would.

PS Your sign may need to be in several languages if it is older blokes but young blokes - no excuses

I couldnt have put it any better myself!!!!

heres a thought - buy yourself a pet lion and put up a sign TRESPASSERS WILL BE EATEN!