Josh88 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 As most braids are rated well above their actual breaking strain in a lot of cases particularly in the lighter lines, do people think that it should be labelled at the breaking strain it actually has? I know this would mean making even lighter thinner lines for people than want to push the boundaries which is getting pretty ridiculous but what do you all think? Also, how do they come up with the breaking strain that they do advertise the line as? If it breaks at 10lb how does labelling it as 4 or 6lb fit in? Cheers Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkymalinky Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 This is one of my pet hates but we only have ourselves to blame. If braid had the correct breaking strain marked it would only help. Those of us who want to genuinely fish 20lb would use finer line, those that wanted something stronger could still get the 30lb or whatever and use it with complete confidence. Where the problem began is that in the early days of braid in Australia, manufacturers made a PR advantage of the fact that it was even stronger than the marked breaking strain. When braids were occasionally marketed at the real breaking strain, they got lots of complaints because 20lb 'Spiderwire' or similar was breaking at 30lb or something while "this brand x breaks way under that". Now it's entrenched. Weird I know... it's the only product I can think of where people seem content and even prefer to be misinformed. How we're supposed to make sensible comparisons I'll never know. Cheers, Slinky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh88 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Does anyone know though how manufacturers come up with the breaking strain they mark it with??? Just seems like a random number seeing that they break above it. Maybe something to do with certain diameter=certain breaking strain?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportfish Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 well put Slinky I suppose that is why the leader strength choice is important because the leader or knot will give way before the under-rated braid. Saves us money by not having to replace a heap of braid ?? or do they under-rate the leader too?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeseman Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think its really important that the breaking strains are shown accurately, saves alot of time for us when choosing a braid to throw on the spool, and heaps easier than finding out the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANNAFISH Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think if the braid is IGFA rated its supposed to break at the advertised limit like sunline. But Id rather it to be stronger as braid is a bit pricey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big-Banana Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I've never had two spools of the same braid break at the same breaking strain. Unless they tested each spool individually, it'd be very difficult to note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tide'n'knots Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) i have always been under the impression that when they talk about the braid breaking strain that it is equivelent in diameter to mono but much stronger! In other words 20lb mono and 20lb braid are roughly the same diameter but braid is a lot stronger -of course this theory could also be wrong, Its just what i have always thought. If braid didnt break at much higher levels why pay extra for it? I dont see the point. Thats probably the only reason why I would buy braid in the first place! It is a lot more abrasive than mono and can be murder on guides, bail arms and fingers also it knots easier and is far harder to untangle, and can jam up on the spool, so if your not getting superior strength - why would you use it ? I may be missing something but I cant see any other advantages. Edited February 20, 2009 by tide'n'knots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewgaffer Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 ........i have always been under the impression that when they talk about the braid breaking strain that it is equivelent in diameter to mono but much stronger! In other words 20lb mono and 20lb braid are roughly the same diameter but braid is a lot stronger -of course this theory could also be wrong, Its just what i have always thought. .........so if your not getting superior strength - why would you use it ? I may be missing something but I cant see any other advantages. Hi Josh I think they make braid line over the breaking strain to make sure that they comply with the regulations of advertising fibre products, particularly where strength is involved..... Also there may be slight irregularities in certain ropes and woven materials...... I also think that they overdo the breaking strains particulatly on their ultra fine lines, thinking that they will take more of the market away their competitors. Pete 80 lb braid is equivalent in diameter to 20lb mono and if it pro-rates close enough as you go down the scale, 8lb - 10lb braid in some brands would have the diameter of say 2lb mono. Braid has next to zero stretch in it but is prone to abrasion, mono is used when you need to have protection against abrasion and particularly stretch in your line. IE when fishing for jumpers, sharks and soft mouth fish like salmon and whiting. Cheers jewgaffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewgaffer Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 hi im a braid user but what is better or is it just a fact of user preference Braid 1. Braid has more sensitivity than mono, more life in it and less drag in the water than mono 2. Virtually allows you to fish heavier with lighter line and have more length in the line on your reel being approx 1/5 of the diameter of mono and is an excellent backing for leader material and long wind on leader. 3. Braid to mono leader doesn't require the use of a swivel. 4. Modern day lures, particulary soft plastics are designed to work better with braid 5. Having no give in your line and tight drag provides for sudden stop and solid hook up during the important first run. 6. The no stretch factor in braid keeps more pressure on the fish, reduces the run angles of the fish, and decreases the leverage advantage which allows fish such as flathead which are well known head shakers, to work hooks loose when mouth hooked, particularly ganged hooks and long shanks. Cheers jewgaffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh88 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 there is a reason why braided line breaking strain cannot be advertised correctly. when viewed under a microscope most braided lines appear slightly square in shape (not perfectly round) this is due to the weaving process of the spectra or dyneema fibres, they are not perfect. spectra and dyneema fibres are supplied to the braiding company from specific manufacturers and then fused and mixed with their own formula to create their own unique braided fishing lines. these fibres are so strong for their small size that naturally any slight variance in diametre is going to significantly alter the strength of the line. now it is quite obviously impossible to manufacture a microscopic weave to 100% uniform perfection so a variance will occur in the thickness and strength which is why braided lines cannot be advertised correctly. a general rule is 5-10% variance either side of the listed breaking strain at any one point, but this can sometimes be more depending on the manufacturer's quality control and weaving process. CFD Makes sense, so how do they come up with the breaking strain they advertise? Is it to do with the diameter of the line or does the spectra/dyneema supplying company send them off as a certain strength and then that strength increses with the brands variations whilst they advertise the breaking strain they originally had?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strewth Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) there is a reason why braided line breaking strain cannot be advertised correctly. when viewed under a microscope most braided lines appear slightly square in shape (not perfectly round) this is due to the weaving process of the spectra or dyneema fibres, they are not perfect. spectra and dyneema fibres are supplied to the braiding company from specific manufacturers and then fused and mixed with their own formula to create their own unique braided fishing lines. these fibres are so strong for their small size that naturally any slight variance in diametre is going to significantly alter the strength of the line. now it is quite obviously impossible to manufacture a microscopic weave to 100% uniform perfection so a variance will occur in the thickness and strength which is why braided lines cannot be advertised correctly. a general rule is 5-10% variance either side of the listed breaking strain at any one point, but this can sometimes be more depending on the manufacturer's quality control and weaving process. CFD If some manufacturers can advertise correct (or close to correct ) breaking strains (eg Sufix, Sunline, etc) then they all can (and should). Five or ten percent accuracy is good enough for me, but factors of two or more are absurd. IGFA braids get very close to the true rated load capacity. The current situation, where the angler often has no idea of the true load capacity of the braid, is ridiculous. And the terminlogy "equivalent to xlb mono" is next to useless, and should be done away with. Just give us an estimate of the true diameter, averaged for non-circular braids, and be done with it. ps: "breaking strain" , although universal, is the wrong term for measuring the strengths of lines. Strain is a dimensionless measure of deformation, not load. Edited March 14, 2009 by strewth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewhunter Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Braid in general has a lower knot strength than mono. I've been told by the people in the know that a braids rating is the point it should break at the knot. I line tested 30lb fireline & straight through it broke at 63lbs. When tested with a heavier leader it broke at 34lbs at the knot. Still over but closer. This is my understanding of how they rate it anyway. Cheers, Grant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strewth Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Braid in general has a lower knot strength than mono. I've been told by the people in the know that a braids rating is the point it should break at the knot. I line tested 30lb fireline & straight through it broke at 63lbs. When tested with a heavier leader it broke at 34lbs at the knot. Still over but closer. This is my understanding of how they rate it anyway. Cheers, Grant. I seriously doubt it, as the questions always arises "what knot?". One braid, Fireline XDS, gives both knot strength and line strength but this was always impossible to interpret. IGFA rated braids must break close to their stated strength and this is mostly measured in simple tension at a specified rate of loading. Using appropriate knots and due care it is possible to get close to 100% strength in braids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewhunter Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I seriously doubt it, as the questions always arises "what knot?". One braid, Fireline XDS, gives both knot strength and line strength but this was always impossible to interpret. IGFA rated braids must break close to their stated strength and this is mostly measured in simple tension at a specified rate of loading. Using appropriate knots and due care it is possible to get close to 100% strength in braids. As I said, I was told this from somebody in the industry & I'm just passing that on. Yes it is possible to get CLOSE to 100% knot strength in anything, but any knot will always be the weak point no matter what you are tying. I'de like to think that I tie some pretty good knots, however if you test your entire rig, connections & all, what will break first? The braid, your heavy leader, or a join knot or hook knot? Of course it will be a knot. Just some food for thought. Sorry for getting a bit . BTW, yes I do think the breaking strain of braid should be advertised correctly but I don't know if it is possible just yet. Cheers, Grant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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