ritchie Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hi All, Just got back from inspecting a Stebercraft 3.65M fibreglass boat for a mate. The hull seems to be fine, no cracks and solid floor etc.. However, when the owner started the motor it emitted big smoke and the smoke kept on coming out from under the motor and from a hole what is supposed to be a water outlet of the shaft (long shaft, this is the upper hole just below the head..not sure whether it supposed to emit smoke or water).. when ive started the motor after 5 mins, the smoke still came out but not as bad as previous time.. ...Owner said he's not sure why but could be due to motor sitting idling for a period of time... so, my question is, What could've produced that smoke?.. Selling for $2300 ... Thanks in advance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wantingaboat Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hey Richie i am not sure about the problem but i saw a 30HP Merc 2 Stroke, brand new, for sale for $3000 about 4 months ago so $2300 for a second hand 15HP sounds a bit steep to me??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hey Richie i am not sure about the problem but i saw a 30HP Merc 2 Stroke, brand new, for sale for $3000 about 4 months ago so $2300 for a second hand 15HP sounds a bit steep to me??? Mate, he's asking $2300 for the whole package, boat & accessories incl Eagle fish finder.. My main concern is the smoke coming out of the motor.. :/ .. any idea why would it emit lot of smoke when started and running?... ...blown head..?..may be?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWANNABROCK Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 More then likely just build up of two stroke fuel mix. all 2 strokes blow smoke,some less than others,may also have a rich mix in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 More then likely just build up of two stroke fuel mix. all 2 strokes blow smoke,some less than others,may also have a rich mix in it. if that is the case, anything to clean it up?... apart from that, what are the other possibilities?... Cheers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWANNABROCK Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 A good run on right oil mix will more than likely clear it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelican Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) Get someone to do a boat and motor inspection who know what to look for and what to test. Too many lemons out there that cost too much to fix when for a small extra cost you could know you have a good one or avoid the traumas. Never buy without compression test on the motor and check for rot in the hull. Prefer to have a on water test with someone on board who knows the expected performance before handing over the final payment as well. Gives you a chance to check out the whole package and the trailer. Bit hard from your description to work out what was going on. What mechanic has the owner used to service the motor and how regularly has it been done. Does the owner have records of service. If not you'll be up for waterpump impeller and a tune so you know you have a relaible motor. Take that into account as well. Make it worth the sellers while offer to pay to have the motor looked at and tuned and if good you are a buyer you know it is good and if not you have saved yourself a lot of grief. Edited July 26, 2009 by pelican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wantingaboat Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Sorry Richie didnt realise it was for the whole package. Sounds a bit better now. It will definately blow smoke. Was it started at the blokes house or in water? I dont know a huge amount about engines but i was pretty surprised about the amount of smoke that came out of my 2S when i first started it at home with the muffs on it. The neighbours sure werent impressed. When you are on the water and on the move you dont notice it at all. I guess its hard to gauge what to do as if you do what pelican suggests and get a mechanic to look at it,unless its a mate, it will cost you a fair slap of the salami and then if its a pile of shit then thats money down the gurgler. Personally i buy everything new. Doesnt mean its problem free but its covered under warrenty. It obviously costs more but i dont experience the aweful feeling of something braking and knowing i cant afford to fix it. If you have good mechanical knowledge then a 2nd hand motor can be fixed if issues arise but if neither of you have a scooby doo then in my opinion its not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boat Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hi, inferior oil and a rich fuel/oil mixture is all that will make an old tech carby 2-Stroke smoke alot. Yes on first start the smoke will be more visible, but as mentioned running a good quality oil at the correct ratio and with the engine running as designed and reacjing correct idle temps the old carby designs are not that bad. On a carby 2-Stroke the only thing that produces too much smoke is the quality and amount of oil in the fuel and is not an indication of a problem like other engine designs. Check compression, gear oil and take for a run in the water to make sure it pumping water fine and runs well and depending on age and brand the price seems OK. Cheers, Huey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelican Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) Adding to Hueys post if it has been running cold, too much oil, , crap oil these can lead to stuck rings and other issues. If these aren't recognised and fixed ie correct fuel mix and tune with a quality oil and some remedial action like running engine tuner long term damage can happen to the motor. Carbon deposits can build up on plugs, in exhaust ports and in the exhaust which will all hurt performance and possibly damage the motor. 2 strokes are tough and simple and will run forever with a little bit of care. They will always have some smoke especially cold , at start up on choke and after having been left standing for a while Look the 2 stroke is a simple basic thing so if it is running and has good compression you are in with a chance. The other main issue on outboards is corrosion or scale in the water galleries and that is hard to tell from a quick inspection. Corrosion or scale build up affects the cooling and leads to overheats and the only real thing you can do is flushing and preventative maintainance of checking thermostat and replacing the water pump impeller regularly. The exhaust and hence smoke has 2 places it can come out. The hub through the prop ( when over 1000rpm) and a smaller hole which is the idle or exhaust bypass hole which is above the water line 1/3 way down the leg. At idle the motor doesn't produce enough exhaust gas to push it out the prop hub ( prop is 1 foot under water) so the smaller port allows some to escape so you get a nice smooth quiet idle without bubbling water. Motor gets correct backpressure to run. Smoke from teh idle prt often looks like it is wafting from around the cowl. There is a gasket between the motor and the leg and that can ( not often) degrade or have bolts loose and exhaust gas can escape via that. With the cowl off and motor running you should be able to see if that is the issue. If the bloke has shown it to 5 or 6 people and done 5 or 6 cold starts and choked them each time and it hasn't had a decent run it will more than likely be just flooded and a small oil build up. Cheap oils left standing in tote tanks or old fuel can be a factor as well. He may have accidentily double dosed fuel with oil. If it was still doing it after a 20 minute full throttle run on the water with fresh fuel and good oil I would have my thinking cap on that it has a mixture problem and possibly larger issues. Take someone who knows, compression test it,check plugs, take a tote tank with fresh fuel and mix quality oil in the right amount in front of the bloke and run the motor. Edited July 26, 2009 by pelican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) WOW!! so much of useful information guys!! CHEERS !!! summarising all replies, this could be a bad oil mix crating some sorta build up inside the motor?.. not a sign of blown head or gaskets?... ..the boat was started at the owners house and with the motor tilted to a massive water bucket.. That smoke stank the joint i must say..my didnt even allowed me in the house (since we have a new born! ) without me removing my hoodie, cap and even pants! LOL .. well, I'd def call few people to help me with having another inspection (may be send them without me, as otherwise, the owner might think we're interested and wouldnt budge with the price) .. if i ask an outboard mechanic, roughly how much would it cost? (eg: NRMA guys charge about $250 for a car inspection) .. apart from this "smoking issue" the boat seems to be in good nick.. no soft spots on the floor (im 100kg and when i stand the floor wouldnt "sink" and when i push me feet hard it pressed in very very subtly) and couldnt find any significant repairs on the hull... It'll be interesting to find out the story behind the smoke! Edited July 26, 2009 by ritchie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightmanager Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Its kind of hard to get a comprehensive idea of a motors condition by just running for 3 or 4 minutes on the muffs. Ideally , as has been suggested , an on water test is the best way to determine how the boat will run when you get it ( providing of course that you arent going to be fishing in your driveway!) . Excess smoke typically has 2 causes , too much oil in the fuel , or motor running too cool ( have the thermostats been removed?). Always use the best quality oil that you can afford. Remember , oils aint oils !! Grab the leg of the outboard , and try to lift it . If the transon flexes at all , it could be a sign of transom rot. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boat Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 WOW!! so much of useful information guys!! CHEERS !!! summarising all replies, this could be a bad oil mix crating some sorta build up inside the motor?.. not a sign of blown head or gaskets?... ..the boat was started at the owners house and with the motor tilted to a massive water bucket.. That smoke stank the joint i must say..my didnt even allowed me in the house (since we have a new born! ) without me removing my hoodie, cap and even pants! LOL .. well, I'd def call few people to help me with having another inspection (may be send them without me, as otherwise, the owner might think we're interested and wouldnt budge with the price) .. if i ask an outboard mechanic, roughly how much would it cost? (eg: NRMA guys charge about $250 for a car inspection) .. apart from this "smoking issue" the boat seems to be in good nick.. no soft spots on the floor (im 100kg and when i stand the floor wouldnt "sink" and when i push me feet hard it pressed in very very subtly) and couldnt find any significant repairs on the hull... It'll be interesting to find out the story behind the smoke! Hi, the "story behind the smoke" is as mentioned-too rich mixture, bad oil and/or running cold at idle. First two very easy to fix, buy it and run 50:1 with a good quality oil and even if the last one, not hard or expensive (depending on model and year) to fix if running cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelican Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) Least he has a big bucket so has possibly been flushing it. A good thing In a small enclosed area it only takes a little smoke to look like a lot. Check what oil he is using and what mix he is mixing - 25 to 1 , 50 to 1 or 100 to 1. Confirm that correct mix for that motor. A lot of people just put extra oil in and don't realise the issues it creates when a motor spends a lot of time at low revs. Check the transom out , Ie see if motor flexes it when you push and pull on it with a fair bit of weight , check for leaks on water test and check if the trailer out thoroughly especially if it is a painted or freshly painted job. Tyres are often old and crappy so just make sure you allow for all the things you have to do to make it a safe reliable rig including all your lifejackets , oars etc.. Just by talking to the bloke you may work out if he has any mechanical nouse or common sense so a simple question like have you serviced teh trailer recently and what was done. If the reply is yeah mate , repack teh bearings every 6 months and replaced them 2 years ago you at least know he knows to do maintainance. Even if he says shop did it last month he is aware of need for it. Check out the electrics,all working, if any as they are often the last thing people maintain but if they all look neat or have been redone?? You'll probably have to raise the all round white light so it is higher than the highest point on the boat as Maratime are getting strict on rules at night Last one. Make sure the bloke really does own the boat,it is boatcoded and has no money outstanding and you are buying it from it's physical registered address. I am always a sceptic and cynic as I have seen many mates buy lemons because they didn't do proper checks but it is always good to be pleasantly surprised when you get exactly what you want at a good price. Boat show starts this week so if the bloke isn't getting out of boating he may be off to get a new package and want money in his pocket before he goes.?? Generally quite a few rigs up for sale just before and after boat shows due to upgrades and spur of the moment purchases or trade in at dealers. Edited August 2, 2009 by pelican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Spoke to a boating place owner and he confirmed the same thing..wrong mixture of the oil.. Owner said he's been using 1:25 mix when the actual ratio should be 1:50 .. so, that explains the smoke!! However, the owner beleives its a blown gasket or somthing serious like that.. So, I managed to close the deal for $1700 !! Once again, Thanks everyone for your help and advice!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnv Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 ritchie all the best with your purchase & hope u all have fun with it cheers john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 picked up the boat on Friday night and the first thing done was draining the oil tank..then filled with 98 octane and 1:50 marine 2 stroke oil.. then took her out on Saturday morning to Brooklyn (yep, didnt waste any time) and gave her a good run for about 45 mins and guess what????.. ...NO MORE EXCESSIVE SMOKE !! .... and she ran smooth .. the hull didnt take any water (couldnt see the carpet getting wet) and 2 of us could fish comfortably.. so...overall, I am happy with my "second first boat" (the first tinny turned out to be a lemon but sold with a little profit ) once again, thanks ya'll for the help and advice! ...a $1700 well spent i reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWANNABROCK Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Beautiful boat,tight lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnv Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 looks like a very tidy unit, i hope u get plenty of enjoyment out of it cheers john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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