Problems Tying Light Flurocarbon Leader To Braid

[bagga]

Hi guys,

am I the only one who has trouble tying light leaders to braid? I've tried all the knots, double uni, slim beauty, allbright etc. but the braid seems to cut through and break easily where the flurocarbon joins the braid. I'm getting maybe 30-50% knot strength at the most. I'm using 6 -8lb Fireline and leader material about the same breaking strain.

I read yesterday on the Adventure Bound site that some braids will indeed cut through a leader and its best to use 8 core braid which has a rounder profile and won't cut into the braid. Fireline doesn't seem to have a round profile at all. Any advice would be helpful.

cheers

Greg

[DGF]

hmm i dont seem to have that problem at all i use a double uni knot never had it come apart on the join, and i was wrestling blackfish on my SP outfit on 6lb braid with 10lb fluro leader

cant remember what brand braid im using though i know the fluro is kokoda though

Edited February 23, 2010 by DGF

[GregL]

The Si 8 braids still cut as they are even thinner than normal braids for their braking strains. I use the Branzino SI8 braid, best I have used but I do need to double the braid section over before tying the knot. I don't tie a double but just fold the braid over into a double, tie the knot and as I am tightening it I make sure I pull both the tag and the braided line evenly to form a neat knot. Since doing this the leader snaps before the knot when hooked on the bottom.

Greg

[bagga]

The Si 8 braids still cut as they are even thinner than normal braids for their braking strains. I use the Branzino SI8 braid, best I have used but I do need to double the braid section over before tying the knot. I don't tie a double but just fold the braid over into a double, tie the knot and as I am tightening it I make sure I pull both the tag and the braided line evenly to form a neat knot. Since doing this the leader snaps before the knot when hooked on the bottom.

Greg

thanks for the reply Greg and DGF. I've tried doubling the braid and it does seem to form a stronger knot. And I reckon the double uni is the best knot as well.

Greg, what about when you are not hooked on the bottom, what happens when you test the knot yourself, does the leader break or the knot?

[DGF]

with your uni knots how many twists do you put in coz ive noticed if you do less than 10 they fall off

[GregL]

thanks for the reply Greg and DGF. I've tried doubling the braid and it does seem to form a stronger knot. And I reckon the double uni is the best knot as well.

Greg, what about when you are not hooked on the bottom, what happens when you test the knot yourself, does the leader break or the knot?

In 30lb braid and as low as 20lb leaders, the braid will cut into my hands before anything brakes. Gloved up and it's the leader that snaps first.

Note:In my double uni I use 5 turns each side when using the braid doubled over.

Greg

[gerg]

I double the braid as well using an improved albright knot.

7 turns up and 3 back. all my reels are spooled with either 2 lb crystal fireline or 10lb sunline castaway. I predominately fish 3lb and 4 lb leaders, and have had no issues with knots

greg

[jewgaffer]

Hi Bagga, GregL is quite right about doubling braid line when tying a line to line knot. As in all good fishing knots line to line knots in one way or another are an individual series of wraps tightened in as unit which virtually clinch and lock the tag ends in tight and are tied in such a manner that the wraps are perfectly formed and even and then tightened so that the ends have virtually no chance of slipping under the wraps.

With line to line knots, each side of a series of wraps acts as a stop knot for the other side... Monofilament line tied into a series of wraps still has as enough give in it as a unit to act as buffer for the braid wrap unit and the combined units as a knot shares the load under the pressure of a fish and distributes that pressure into the main line, rather than the braid cutting into the monofilament where the wraps are tightened over it.. The same applies to the monofilament over braid part of the unit on the other side as there is enough spring type give and points of immeasurable slippage before the the pressure going thru each unit of wraps exhausts into the main line.

In summary, if you tie and evenly wrap a knot such as a uni knot in the monofilament and a unit knot in the braid line or a unit knot in the mono and a double line blood knot in the braid or a variation of same for clinching the ends and locking them in tight by tightening each series of wraps, and pulling them tight in against one another, the cutting power of the braid on the monofliament is negated. As the bulk of the wraps are pulled into one another, the pressure on the units of wraps would be evenly distributed and the pressure exhausts thru the knot and into the main line.

Cheers

jewgaffer

[stricko4]

Hi guys,

am I the only one who has trouble tying light leaders to braid? I've tried all the knots, double uni, slim beauty, allbright etc. but the braid seems to cut through and break easily where the flurocarbon joins the braid. I'm getting maybe 30-50% knot strength at the most. I'm using 6 -8lb Fireline and leader material about the same breaking strain.

I read yesterday on the Adventure Bound site that some braids will indeed cut through a leader and its best to use 8 core braid which has a rounder profile and won't cut into the braid. Fireline doesn't seem to have a round profile at all. Any advice would be helpful.

cheers

Greg

Greg,

I had the same problem for a while using 4lb fireline & 6lb fluro leader. I just took more time tying the knots (double uni) & was very careful when pulling them up tight making sure I lubricated each one. Since then I've had no problems.

Paul

[abecedarian]

One thing also to note is that the double uni is relatively bulky, so you can lose knot strength just from the fatigue of the knot hitting the guides during casting. Considering how when you're spinning you do a lot of casting, it might be a good idea to test the knot and re-tie it if in doubt. That said, it's not only the double uni that can have this problem, every knot can and it's worth considering when doing a lot of casting.

[Guest]

Double unis are out of date for light lines and you should try and use the 5 turn surgeon loop.

All you do is cross mainline with a cut to length leader around 8 feet and make a back hand loop in the two peices and wrap the tag and leader through the loop 5 times and lubricate and pull tight and trim as close as you like.

No bulky knot too catch in the guides and this knot has never failed me.

After using this knot on light braid and leaders,I would use nothing else.

I will make a short video soon and post it up

Cheers Swordfisherman

[sadamson]

Stewy showed me the 5 turn surgeon knot easy to tie and works a treat.

Cheers stephen

Edited February 23, 2010 by Reggie the Rabbit

[bagga]

Thanks for all the info people, I'll work through all the tips and let you know how I go.

Just to answer a few of your questions, I'm using Nitlon leader material which is supposedly top quality material although one of the tackle shops I spoke to reckons its not that good. As for the number of wraps, I've been told to do more wraps with the braid so usually do between 6-8 wraps with the braid and 4-5 with the mono. Does it matter if the number of wraps aren't equal on both sides? I don't have a problem with the wraps falling off or slipping so I'm doing enough wraps I would have thought. I should mention that the knot always breaks on the mono side and I always lubricate it first. I look forward to seeing the surgeon loop video swordfisherman, thanks for that.

cheers

Greg

[Slaka]

I use the 5 turns surgeons not for light line like that and have never had a problem with line breaking, and being a smalling knot it goes through the guides well.

[DGF]

someone make a video of this 5 turn surgeon knot so i can see how its done

[Hodgey]

This will get you headed in the right direction. Instead of passing the line through twice ... pass it through 5 times:

http://www.animatedknots.com/surgeonsjoin/index.php?LogoImage=LogoFishraider.jpg&Website=www.fishraider.com.au

Keep an eye out for Stewy's video soon

Cheers

Hodgey

[DGF]

This will get you headed in the right direction. Instead of passing the line through twice ... pass it through 5 times:

http://www.animatedknots.com/surgeonsjoin/index.php?LogoImage=LogoFishraider.jpg&Website=www.fishraider.com.au

Keep an eye out for Stewy's video soon

Cheers

Hodgey

Ahhh thanks it looks fairly simple

[mrsswordfisherman]

Cheer mrsswodrie

[tide'n'knots]

swordy showed me his knot when I fished with him and it is quick, simple to tie, very stong and I totally agree with him in that I wouldnt use anything else!

pete.

[bagga]

Cheer mrsswodrie

thanks Donna. This knot looks easy to tie under pressure.....you know those moments?...when the fish are on, the wind is blowing, the boat is rocking, you're hands are cold and everyone else around you is catching fish and you have to try and tie an 18-reverse-wrap-super-improved whatever knot. This looks much simpler. Let you know how I go and thanks for doing the video so promptly. Really appreciate it.

regards

Greg

[mrsswordfisherman]

thanks Donna. This knot looks easy to tie under pressure.....you know those moments?...when the fish are on, the wind is blowing, the boat is rocking, you're hands are cold and everyone else around you is catching fish and you have to try and tie an 18-reverse-wrap-super-improved whatever knot. This looks much simpler. Let you know how I go and thanks for doing the video so promptly. Really appreciate it.

regards

Greg

Good on you Greg. Soon you will be tying this with your eyes closed. I do know those problems - I ususally just let Stewy do it for me

[DGF]

awesome thanks swordy will give it a try this weekend

[kingie321]

with your uni knots how many twists do you put in coz ive noticed if you do less than 10 they fall off

I use 7 each side for luck ,then put the loose knot in the mouth and make sure it's wet to help set the knot when it's tightened.

[Jewhunter]

Thanks for the lesson Stewy.

Just tied & tested it this arvo against the slim beauty in 3kg fireline on the same drag setting.

I now know which knot I'll be using in my light outfits from now on!

Cheers,

Grant.

[bagga]

Yep this is the knot I've been looking for Tried it at home last night and I couldn't fault it. I won't be using anything else from now on. Worked a treat with the light leader. Thanks to Stewy and to everybody who contributed to this topic.

regards

Greg