Question On Leaders.

[twoblues]

Ok, I've been fishing since Adam played fullback for Jerusalem, so I feel pretty dumb for asking the enlightened ones this question.

I just bought a new 4-6kg rod and some 14lb braid for it. I was going to use mono to attach my terminal tackle (maybe 10kg or so), when I was advised to attach 16lb leader to the braid.

The sales person told me most people use only 30 to 40cm of leader, which seems to me quite short. This got me wondering.

Do I use the leader sold to me to attach my terminal tackle, or do I attach a mono trace to the leader?

What I mean is, are the leader and trace separate entities or is a leader another name for a trace?

Thanks for any advice offered.

Twoblues.

[cut_loose]

Leader is a another word for Trace.

40cm is short for me as well. I use at least a meter - meter and a half.

[jahajo]

If fishing with bait, the leader is not as important.

Depending on what species of fish, i would be running between 40cm-200cm of leader, which is then atached to the hook. You can also add a swivel in the middle if need be.

If lure fishing i would be using around a rod length of good mono leader or flurocarbon.

The best knot to attach leader to braid in my opinion is a double uni as its easy to tie.

[scottmazz]

My leader lengths depend on the weight and type of lure fishing I'm doing.

I am assuming that we are talking about lure fishing here. My heavier gear has leaders around 1-1.5m.

My lighter rods have more and my big plastic rod has only 600 - 800mm.

I always use a flouro-carbon leader but I am sure that sometimes this is over kill.

I fish mostly for flathead and feel that if I get below around 1m I start getting less strikes, particularly in water less than 1.5.

Water colour/clarity though plays a big part.

Can't help but thinking though that at 4-6 kilo your aiming for Jews and bigger flatties in which case, I have been hammered lately on 15 and 20lb leaders and I am now fishing 30 on my 4-6kg rod.

Can't tell you how frustrating it is laying in bed thinking what if?

As hazza suggested find a good knot to match your braid and leader as the braid will cut through really quick.

[twoblues]

Thanks for the info guys.

I think I will go heavier on the leader as I wasn't aware that the braid can cut through it.

You are on the money Mazza. I will be chasing jewies with the outfit. Only hope I can land the monster on this light gear.

[wallacewt]

the reason for the short 30cm leader is so your braid knot is outside the rod tip when you cast.especialy if there is wind blowing.knot hits the guide,bird nest.snaggy country you need mono or fluoro,i use 30cm with lures and lots of times none at all, fewer knots,have they got teeth? is it snaggy?hope this helps.

[slinkymalinky]

Thanks for the info guys.

I think I will go heavier on the leader as I wasn't aware that the braid can cut through it.

You are on the money Mazza. I will be chasing jewies with the outfit. Only hope I can land the monster on this light gear.

G'day twoblues,

Avoiding having your braid cut through your leader is more about knot selection. You should pick leader to suit the fish you're chasing and the kind of fishing you're doing... there's no point trying to cast 2" plastics at bream with 30lb leader.

Use knots to connect your leader if you can, that don't involve single strands of braid crossing over the leader inside the knot. When the knot is under pressure, the fine braid can cut through the leader. Knots like a slim beauty or double uni-knot are really good.

In lighter tackle (bream and flathead style outfits for example) it's not such an issue because there's less pressure on the line so less likelihood of the braid cutting thru the leader. For this sort of gear, a knot that is simple and quick to tie is fine... ... a Surgeons Knot is very popular.

I use a modified surgeons knot for light gear (10lb leader and less) and a slim beauty for mid weight gear (15-40lb leader) and a 'mid knot' for heavier leaders.

Cheers, Slinky

[slinkymalinky]

Thought I'd try an explanation of what I meant in the last reply.

Here's 2 knots... both tied in 20lb braid with 40lb leader.

Tony Jones Leader Knot (sometimes called a Duck Nose)

Slim Beauty

If you look really closely (click on the pic so it expands) you might see that on the left end of the Tony Jones knot where the mono wraps end, the braid crosses over the mono. Imagine when you have a fish on... the natural tendency is for the knot to pull tighter and that means that point will be under pressure, with the braid pressing on and potentially cutting into the leader.

In the Slim Beauty, at no point does a strand of braid cross the leader in a way that will be under pressure later. Effectively you have 2 knots sliding together, like when you tie a double uni knot. The 2 knots press against each other instead of a strand of braid and leader pressing on each other.

No idea if I've made it clearer or just bamboozled everyone but here's hoping.

Cheers, Slinky

[jewgaffer]

Hi Two Blues Slinky mentions the possibility of the braid line cutting into the mono under pressure which is quite undesirable in a line to line knot where braid and mono is involved...

If you're inclined to want to fish with longer leader line and particularly in a fast current so that the bait will flutter off by itself by being more independent of the sinker, take a look at this particular knot which is hard to find and was originally a knot that was used for tying cord line to very heavy nylon leader..You'll see that the wraps of the braid are even and the end result is in the form of a barrel knot and..... because of the simple overhand stopper at the end of loose end of the mono, the group of braid loops will pull into the overhead knot itself which would have enough give in it anyway to prevent the wraps cutting into the leader line as they're being pulled in against the ooverhead stopper knot...

Let me know what you think of this particular knot for tying braid to heavy leader as it goes thru rod guides fairly easily and it would be a handy knot to use especially should you decide to fish all fluro in front of your braid from the water level down...

Also Tony what do you think of this particular knot and also the easiness of tying it..

Cheers

jewgaffer

[slinkymalinky]

Also Tony what do you think of this particular knot and also the easiness of tying it..

Cheers

jewgaffer

G'day Byron, Not speaking French I have no idea of the translation but it's a variation of the Slim Beauty knot. One of my favourite knots

BUT

No good for heavy leader... in heavy line the overhand knot is too bulky to go through some runners and sounds like a machine gun if you cast it.

Cheers, Slinky

[jewgaffer]

Tony it's a plyer tightened single overhand knot that's used as a stopper for the braid wraps, do me a favour and have another cast and let me know if it still sound like a machine gun happy birthday hic got the birthday boy hic ups now lol

edit tell you what Tones that slim beauty knot doesn't seem to be a bad knot at all and should go thru the rod guides smoothly with the mono tag out of the way and especially when you have a good look at the strength of the doubled line blood knot in the braid and the evenness in the wraps in the finished product as shown in the video below

http://www.netknots.com/html/slim_beauty_knot.html

Cheers mate, although I've not seen it before that slim beauty knot is a very good knot indeed for tying braid to mono

jewgaffer

Edited June 28, 2010 by jewgaffer

[twoblues]

Great info. Thanks heaps guys, even I could tie that one.