drama with outboard

[den001]

Hi, im new to the forum and nave recently bought a 17ft fishing boat with a evinrude v4 86 model 90hp

i am very mechanically minded but am new to outboard engines....

have a few questions re my engine. here are the symptoms

it cranks and starts fine most of the time, but somtimes when it kicks over it will idle really roujgh and i have to give it heaps of idle which is very delayed in rpm,

once it picks up its idle its good and stays on...

once warmed up it runs slightly rough while trolling i can see the engine shaking slightly. but when i give it heaps of throttle, 3/4 to wot it runs absolutly perfect and actually goes pretty quick (65km/h).

once i stop for a fish and go to start it again, it needs the revs again and it starts very rough and takes about 15 to 20 seconds for the revs to reach a high smooth idle, within this 15-20 seconds i have no chance of it moving as it sounds like its flooded and it splutters and gurgles and will just stall when put into gear, after its reached a high smooth idle i can drop it down to a normal idle and take off again, like nothing has ever happened...

ive sort of ruled out ignition system as if it was i would suspect a problem in the upper revs of the engine which it does not have at all....

i have fresh fuel, new plugs and have cleaned the carbies with spray only (not disassembled) the plugs were checked today and they are a brown colour with very slight blackness.

also when i prime the bulb up it sort of slightly deflates after say 7 mins...

also the vro system has been removed and some bodgey bloke used cable ties for tightening the fuel line ends to the dedicated positions. when the bulb is primed hard and i keep priming there is very slight seeping on the ends of the hoses....

im going out on wends to test it and i will try priming the bulb when it runs roughly and see what it does....

any help would be greatly appreciated as its doing my head in. i think it could possibly be a air leak somewhere which is causing the pressure to drop in the fuel line as its starting up and having to resuck/pressureize the fuel up again, also noticed that the fuel filter/pump had no metal gauze in it and the rubber gasket inside may be deteriorating, did not check the diaphrams..

any thoughts??

regards

denis

[den001]

also forgot to mention, the other day i took the boat out and was cruizing along, i increased the revs to 3/4 and it responded well, then i increased the revs to wot, and nothing happened, felt like it was loosing power, it kept going for about 5 seconds like that and then took off to wot....

[Guest Aussie007]

some evinrudes/johnsons have a primer on the key switch turn the key push the key in while turning once the engine starts if its running rough bump the key in untill the engine idles fine

[den001]

Yeah I know it has choke on the key, it is used when it is cold but I think it should not be needed when the engine is warm

[deek]

Talk to Huey one of our sponsors, he'll be able to help.

[Onajewagain]

It's sucking air. Block those lines off proparly and see if you have any problems. If you do, then the possabilities are endless!! Good service by a good marine guy will be a start.

[den001]

thanks for your replys....

no i havent checked the comp yet but will be doing so tomorrow...

i checked the plugs yesterday arvo, went fishing on sunday and flushed the motor on idle for close to 10 mins on sunday, the plugs are not clean from water and they are a wettish brown/black colour....

i really think the carby is clogged somwhere or the fuel pump is gone as it doesnt run a fuel filter inner metal mesh for some stupid reason (purchased like this)

Edited March 1, 2011 by deno

[Guest Aussie007]

Johnson/Evinrude cold start procedures

This seems to come up quite a lot, so this Thread is an attempt to capture the common cold-start procedures for the various types of ignitions, and fuel delivery systems for OMC outboards. The following are standard guidelines for cold-starting. Your particular outboard may vary, but these procedures should give you a good baseline. There is no substitute for knowing the particular quirks of your own equipment.

Regardless of the year and type of outboard the steps common to all these are:

1. Ensure all battery connections are solid, and battery has a full charge (electric start only).

2. Ensure the fuel lines are properly attached to tank and outboard.

3. Ensure the fuel tank is properly vented. Buit-in tanks will have a dedicated vent line. Some portable tanks will often have a vent screw built into the cap, others will have auto-venting caps.

4. Pump the primer bulb in the fuel line until it is hard. If the primer bulb does not become hard you may have other issues including an air leak, defective bulb, or misadjusted carbuerator floats.

5. If you have electric trim, trim the motor up to eliminate excessive back-pressure during cold start. Do NOT tilt the motor up out of the water.

You are now ready to start your outboard using the following procedures specific to you model.

Remote Keyed Ignition

There are two basic types of fuel systems to aid in cold starting. Solenoid activated Choke plates and solenoid primers. The starting procedures are the same for each.

1. Place the motor in fast-idle and in neutral gear. Depending on your remote control box, this is acomplished in one of two manners. If you have a dedicated fast-idle lever pull that up between 3/4 to full. If you have a single-lever control and don't have a fast-idle lever, pull the throttle out to lock the engine in neutral and push the throttle forward. If you have a dual-lever control, leave the shifter in neutral, and advance the throttle.

2. Push the key in, activating the choke plates or primer.

3. Turn the key to start.

4. After the motor begins to run, release the key so it returns to the run position and disengages the choke/primer.

5. As the motor begins to stumble, bump the key in activating the choke/primer. You may need to do this several times until the motor can fast-idle on its own.

6. If you tilted your motor up for cold-start, lower the motor to its normal operating position.

7. Visually inspect tell-tale for solid stream indicating proper cooling.

8. As the motor warms up, slowly begin reducing the fast-idle until the motor is able to run in normal idle on its own.

Additional Notes:

* Choke Plates: It is often the case that the choke plates are not set so they close fully and stay closed during start. You can remove the outer air cover and visually monitor their operation during start. If they are not closed, or do not stay closed, adjust the position of the choke solenoid in small increments until this condition is achieved.

* Quick Start: Because these systems automatically advance the timing for a cold start, raising the warm up lever may cause the timing to revert to normal at around 1100 RPM, before the engine is warmed to 96 degrees, defeating QuikStart. Those who have QuikStart may find that cold starts are better without the warm up lever, or with just a little. (thanks ezeke)

Tiller Start

As in the remote keyed ignitions, there are two basic types of fuel systems to aid in cold starting. Choke plates and primers. The starting procedures are different for each and are as follows:

Manual Choke

Choke plates are butterfly plates located at the back of the carburetor body. When engaged, they restrict the flow of air through the carburetor forcing more fuel to be drawn through the idle and mid-range jets while cranking. The choke is only effective while the motor is turning and drawing air through the carburetor body.

1. Put motor in neutral

2. Place the throttle in the start position.

3. Fully engage the choke.

4. Pull starter rope, or press start button until the engine starts.

5. As the engine begins to run, slowly slide the choke lever in. The rate of choke disengagement will vary greatly with each individual outboard. Some require immediate disengagement, others require slow disengagement. Know your outboard.

6. Visually inspect tell-tale for solid stream indicating proper cooling.

7. As the choke is disengaged and the motor warms up, slowly back the throttle off from start to the shift position.

Manual Primer

The manual primer operates as both a fuel injector and an enriching device. The fuel injector operates w/o air being drawn through the motor. The enriching device is an alternate path from the carburetor to draw fuel through the primer and add more fuel during cold-start.

1. Put motor in neutral

2. Place the throttle in the start position.

3. Cycle through one or two full pull-push operations on the primer knob. This will squirts fuel into the intake manifold.

4. Pull out primer knob one half-to full out. This will engage the cold-start enricher circuit.

5. Pull the starter rope, or press start button until the engine starts.

6. As the engine begins to run, slowly slide the primer knob in. The rate of choke disengagement will vary greatly with each individual outboard. Some require immediate disengagement, others require slow disengagement. Know your outboard.

7. Visually inspect tell-tale for solid stream indicating proper cooling.

8. As the choke is disengaged and the motor warms up, slowly back the throttle off from start to the shift position.

[den001]

thanks for that info mate, but i really think my problem lies within one of the systems, it is biend started as per thoes details....

it is not a problem starting it when it is cold.... its more of a problem that when its started cold and i give it throttle to build revs it is really really slow to respond and it will rev up with issues stated in my first post..

secondly, when its warm, it starts but its not ideling right and i must give it revs for at least 20 seconds so it will come up to a normal idle so i can drop the throttle and put it in gear and take off.

[Guest Aussie007]

remove your carb air filter and locate the drain screws on each carb unscrew each one and drain your carbs than see how the engine runs

[den001]

remove your carb air filter and locate the drain screws on each carb unscrew each one and drain your carbs than see how the engine runs

ill give it a go tomorrow, thanks mate. im hitting the water with a outboard mechanic so he can diagnose the problem...

cheers

[datwins]

deno your caaby air mixures are out of adjustment,you well fintout tomorrow

[den001]

deno your caaby air mixtures are out of adjustment,you well find out tomorrow

im pretty sure that the carbies dont have any screws for adjustment. but i could be wrong.

i took off the top plate of the top carby and it looks like there are 3 small brass fittings in there, im not sure if these are the jets but if they are i think it would be a very easy carby kit overhaul...

but i will defiantly find out tomorrow..

i have read in the manual that a faulty fuel pump can cause hard starting and can act like a misfire during low speed operation as the diaphragms are not functioning correctly due to fuel pulses not reacing the carby, it makes the symptoms of the problem look like a ignition problem and when throttle is applied it returns to operating normally which mine does...

i have also read in the manual that if throttle is applied and there is a loss of power for a small period of time and then it takes off, that it is a blocked main jet issue and that it should be cleaned....

considering i havnt got a wire mesh inside my fuel pump i am leaning towards blocked carbies/fuel pump.

but i have read alot of the manual and there are many small issues that can cause these types of symptoms, but the above matches mine closest to whats in the manual so i really hope it gets sorted tomorrow. im goin fishing on the weekend if its sorted or not!

Edited March 1, 2011 by deno

[bisso]

I might be way off but i had an issue wiith my outboard a while back. had no guts when you moved the throttle (would idle ok though) and took abt 20 seconds for any power to come on. i often had trouble getting ther boat up on a plane let alone run as i thought it should. Turns out one of the plastic clips on the throttle assembly linkage was working its way loose under power and only two of the three carbs were working actuating the carb butterflies. once a simple adjustment to it to fit correctly was performed i have not had one problem since. it can be the case a 20 cent part that causes $700 or so to find the problem. i am not saying that is your problem in this instance but it may be worthwhile checking that all the carb linkages are a good tight fit under load. it is best to confirm this with the cowling off and have another crew member with a bit of mechanical knowledge watch the linkages while you work the throttle from the helm.

Cheers

Mick

[den001]

well got it out on the water and as we all know when a mechainc is present the problems do not arise, gladly this was not the case....

got it out on the water and the mechanic make some adjustments to the throttle linkages and a very slight timing adjustment and it runs alot smoother and responds to throttle very very well, luckily he has told me that it has had a recent rebuild as he could tell from the way the engine looked, responded and power it produced..

he seems to think it is a 115hp as he thinks that a 90hp would not go like mine does, the previous owner told me it was a 115 but i saw the tag on the carby and it says 90hp, there is no model number as during the rebuild someone had replaced the welsh plug that its usually stamped on....

starting warm after sitting for a while still was a issue and he is convinced that it is actually my control box as there is ALOT of play in my throttle lever....he susgested that after sitting for a while that it would start first go if throttle was applied, he showed me that if i gave it more throttle that my lever was allowing using the engine linkages it fired up first go and when reduced to normal idle it was perfect.

i towed it home and just finished fiddling with it and it seems that inside the control box, there is no adjustment inside so i had a play with the cable myself on the engine side, i tightened up all moving parts inside the control box and there is alot less free play now but i am still convinced that the box is the culprit...

im pretty sure that on other boats if you rev the motor via the throttle leaver you can get a very high idle, mine is not the case, it barley moves the throttle, if it could move more it would act like a normal boat.

i have got the motor to start MUCH easier using the adjusted throttle leaver, it has more revs than it had before fully open and when dropped it returns to normal idle... i will be testing it on saturday when i go fishing....

another problem arose whilst i was playing with the motor on the muffs, the overheat buzzer in the controller turned on while idling for around 5 mins. i rang the mechanic and he says that it was peeing water well on the river, he seems to think its the muffs, and water pressure, as it takes around 25 seconds for water to come out the tel tale. but it comes out cold compared to the exhaust...

ive ordered a new water pump kit for reassurance and i will change it tomorrow....

but so far so good and im pleased that its not any costly drama, will have a proper test while fishing on sat all day...

[Guest Aussie007]

he seems to think it is a 115hp as he thinks that a 90hp would not go like mine does, the previous owner told me it was a 115 but i saw the tag on the carby and it says 90hp, there is no model number as during the rebuild someone had replaced the welsh plug that its usually stamped on....

look on the block at the welsh plug i assume u were talking about the make, model,serial number plate? its a bit sus if someone goes to the trouble of removing the engine number welsh plug that is pressed in the block as it has no other purpose

[den001]

it has undergone a full rebuild so im assuming that the welsh plugs were removed due to that. i have the serial number on my rego papers but i do not have the model number

[Guest Aussie007]

it has undergone a full rebuild so im assuming that the welsh plugs were removed due to that. i have the serial number on my rego papers but i do not have the model number

a rebuild doesnt require the removal of the welsh plug the welsh plug is just a round piece of metal stamped with the serial number than pressed into the block for security there is no port behind a welsh plug i think u might have a stolen engine if both serial numbers have been removed or at lease the welsh plug serial number removed people do this than just replace the mounting bracket with a lergit serial number as its cheap to replace this part and knock out the welsh plug and now they have a lergit engine when the thief passes on the engine he/she writes out a receipt saying he/she sold the engine to the new owner than it continues on down the road as a lergit engine and can be registered on a boat unfortunately

the welsh plug has no purpose other than showing the engines ID

Edited March 2, 2011 by gazza

[Guest Aussie007]

i just grabbed a couple of pics from my engine to help u out so u can see what u need to look for the first picture is the welsh plug stamped into the engine block the second picture is the stamp on the clamp transom mount both the welsh plug and stamp should have the same serial numbers if no parts have been changed

[den001]

i just grabbed a couple of pics from my engine to help u out so u can see what u need to look for the first picture is the welsh plug stamped into the engine block the second picture is the stamp on the clamp transom mount both the welsh plug and stamp should have the same serial numbers if no parts have been changed

thanks for that mate but they are both missing. i just hope that the water pump kit being sent 2morro is the right part as i couldnt give him a model number