Another dead on the rocks.

[LBG.]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/teen-drowns-in-rock-fishing-accident-20111004-1l7kx.html

When will these idiots wake up? This is EXACTLY why I don't take people to go rock fishing with me unless they're willing to dedicate the time into learning what they're doing first.

And why I completely disagree with the posting of reports with specific locations on the net. "Oh, I heard they get good fish there, let's go on Saturday and fish it".....

[Guest hawkesbass]

I agree with you my mates and i are experienced on the rocks but still watch a spot for awhile and if it dont look good will assess our options and go from there

[Catchin Jack]

Just two words stood out in that report, BIG SEAS.

That itself is enough reason to stay off the rocks.

Another wasted life.

[joshot15]

I fished on Saturday at one of the local spots and this guy catching luderick and drummer hooks up and jumps down to a lower ledge to land a fish. turns his back to the ocean and wave came and smashed him from behind about waste level and forces him into the rocks.

He gets back up and continues to face away from the ocean while trying to land his fish. me and my mate were yelling at him to turn around and he just waved to us. 2 minutes later a freak wave came through and took out the whole ledge... he is lucky to be alive..

When we were leaving we went and spoke to him and his response was 'i don't have a net'

[Thunderace]

there are no freak waves, just waves in all sizes !!!!

[Catchin Jack]

there are no freak waves, just waves in all sizes !!!!

Freak wave, also known as rogue wave, have a read HERE

There's a lot more reading if you look, so YES there are "freak" waves.

Over time ships have been sunk due to the freak/rogue wave.

[jim tran]

I was going to go to the island on Monday too, got there saw the waves pounding, not huge but pretty messy, thought it won't be too much fun fishing from there so opted for the break wall instead. caught nothing but at least I am still safe and well. just don't know how people would treasure a few fish more than their dear lives.

[Izza]

sad that a life was lost but if your going to go and fish off rocks in big swells with little to no experience as it says in the report he'd only taken up rock fishing recently and been out a handfull of times then you deserve everything you get, just another person proving the darwin theory to full effect only the strong and SMART surrvive obviously he was greatly lacking in the latter

[Guest hawkesbass]

sad that a life was lost but if your going to go and fish off rocks in big swells with little to no experience as it says in the report he'd only taken up rock fishing recently and been out a handfull of times then you deserve everything you get, just another person proving the darwin theory to full effect only the strong and SMART surrvive obviously he was greatly lacking in the latter

i dont know the person who died at all how about some compassion for the family and friends of the deceased i know all are entitled to their opinion but some opinions are better left unsaid

[helliconia]

I agree Hawkesbass, some compassion for the family would be appropriate.

This is clearly a case of lack of education. Here's a young guy, trying a new sport and he didn't have the right info and warnings when he needed them - namely when he decided to go.

I'd be interested to hear from experienced rock fisho's how they started and what access they had to information? If a complete amateur wants to start rock fishing, where can they find the information they need to do it safely? Where can they get the advice they need?

Surely there have been enough tragic accidents that can be used to drive home the safety message?

Why don't we give some thought to how we can deliver it, rather than labeling the victims as "idiots" and callously writing off their loss as "evolution in action".

Just on another note with regards to these posts. If a family member of the victim did enough hunting around I'm sure they could come across these posts. It might be worth considering the grief and pain you could cause someone with your comments.

[Izza]

did I not say at the begining of my post that it is sad a life was lost? whether he was new to the sport or not does not excuse a lack of common sense in fishing a spot that even blind freddy would deem unsafe in the given conditions of which the accident happend, I feel for his family theyv lost a son and brother that sucks but ultimately its his own fault for not using common sense

[helliconia]

then you deserve everything you get, just another person proving the darwin theory to full effect only the strong and SMART surrvive obviously he was greatly lacking in the latter

This was the part I was objecting to, but it wasn't just aimed at you. Every time someone dies there are posts expressing similiar opinions. I'm just suggesting we should consider the possible audience before shooting our mouths off.

As for the "common sense" claim, I would argue there is nothing common about it. People who fish rocks for years have just as often come unstuck as amateurs. FR's often tell us how much time it took to learn the safe way of rock fishing. There isn't anything "common" about experience and knowledge.

So my question is, as experienced fisho's, what can WE DO to help prevent tragedies like this in the future?

[Noodles]

Freak wave, also known as rogue wave, have a read HERE

There's a lot more reading if you look, so YES there are "freak" waves.

Over time ships have been sunk due to the freak/rogue wave.

It is a shame to see another life lost in the pursuit of a fish, but you won't easily stop it and there is no point directing comment towards the posting or not of locations etc. Some people will go out into dangerous situations no matter what. Big seas are deadly, moderate seas are dangerous, small seas you need to be cautious and wary, and calm seas are OK but still dont ever turn your back.

As for freak waves, a freak is something rarely seen. Rogue waves may be a term thrown about but I can tell you from the years I've been on the ocean, they are what we call sets. They are not rare at all and happen all the time if the conditions are right. Some geographical formations tend to be more likely to attract dangerous waves when certain conditions prevail and local knowledge is paramount. See Mavericks surf break or look into Frazer Park deaths.

Education is the only solution.

[Mr Squidy]

I fished on Saturday at one of the local spots and this guy catching luderick and drummer hooks up and jumps down to a lower ledge to land a fish. turns his back to the ocean and wave came and smashed him from behind about waste level and forces him into the rocks.

He gets back up and continues to face away from the ocean while trying to land his fish. me and my mate were yelling at him to turn around and he just waved to us. 2 minutes later a freak wave came through and took out the whole ledge... he is lucky to be alive..

When we were leaving we went and spoke to him and his response was 'i don't have a net'

Another tragic story, thoughts go to his family.

Two years ago i started doing a bit of rock fishing myself and saw a number of instances like the one Josh talks about. At one stage i watched a guy, bent over, back to the ocean, collecting weed on a ledge that 5min before had been 5 foot under foaming water. I have better things to do than get into trouble trying to help people who get washed in due to their own stupidity but at the same time i dont think i could stand by and watch someone drown without taking some risks to try and help, especially as i am a very strong swimmer. Anyway, because of this i have now pretty much given up rock fishing as i just dont want to end up in that situation.

Now, inspite of this i am still in favour of supporting reports that detail locations etc. Why? Because anyone that reads this site not only reads the location info but also reads the safety info and warnings. These deaths are all to often linked ignorance, in my opinion this site has a great opportunity to educate and inform and to take away this information will cause more harm than good.

Rich

[tunastrike]

I have seen it many times big seas and people fishing i live in wollongong and most of the people that are fishing those seas are from overseas and have little to no idea of how dangerous it is and more likely cant swim at all like a death on the rocks a couple of years back calm seas fell in and drowned couldnt swim what,s the answer there was talk of closeing fishing spots but dont think that would work unlessed policed.

[Izza]

sorry but clearly there is a bit of common sense involved when picking a safe spot to fish on rocks, hmmm it seems to be getting washed over by waves constantly and there quite large does that seem like a safe and smart place to throw a line in anyone with an ounce of common sense would say no this dude went out in what were clearly rough and dangerous conditions. Even if you have no experieance if the rocks are getting pounded by set after set of large wave what hope do you have of standing there and not getting washed off?! not only that he risked the life of his fiance to so yeah Id say common sense plays a pretty large part in picking a safe spot to fish and also plays a fairly large part in everything we do in life sure some accidents are un-avoidable but this one could of been avoided quite easily

[brickman]

very sorry for the family but with 20 years fishing the worst spots from rosser gully and north head murk to name a few i do'nt think rock fishing can be tort it has to be learnt yes some rules can be layed down but freak waves do happen many years ago at north head murk in a 1 meter swell we spotted a freak wave and had just a few seconds to run 3 meters and jump behind a rock[anyone who has fished the murk will know the one i mean ] and hug the wall tight well that wave went over us a good 6 feet thick and at the time we were laughing at getting wet you could see fish in it a quick check to see if any more were coming and we were one man down[steve never made it behind the rock] he was a good 20 meters back towards the cliff wall and busted up some what the weard thing was he was showing us how to fish the murk and it was my first time down there that was the closest call i ever had but a few things that i think has helped me fish the stones for many years were surfing all my life and life saving at mona vale before i was aloud to go surfing by my self i had to swim from mona vale to warrywood with my dad walking along the beach making sure a swam all the way i take it for granted and it just comes naturaly but many people have little or no idea on swell or how quick conditions can change and its sad to hear off a lose off life the best advice i can give is if your not a strong swimmer and thats in 6foot beach swell do'nt go rock fishing it's not worth you life cheers gary

[bump73]

Sad to see another life wasted something which seems to be more and more common these days..

I'd be interested to hear from experienced rock fisho's how they started and what access they had to information? If a complete amateur wants to start rock fishing, where can they find the information they need to do it safely? Where can they get the advice they need?

Personally I surfed for about 10 years before i started rock fishing which often involved jumping into the surf from headlands in order to surf reef breaks and then involved getting back onto the rocks after a surf. Doing this gave me a pretty good idea on reading the ocean. Personally i'd suggest to anyone thinking of getting into it to book a day with someone like Alex Bellisimo who will take you off the stones for the day and give a really good rundown on safety and reading the ocean and tactics on targetting different species. Failling doing that go with someone who rock fishes on a regular basis.

I think the main thing with alot of these deaths is it seems to be people who have travelled a fair distance in order to go for a fish, and even though conditions are bad, they don't want to have wasted their time. Unfortunately as in this case they end up wasting something a hell of a lot more valuable...

Oh yeah as for freak waves, in all my years surfing and rock fishing i've never seen one. You do get set waves which are bigger but that's about it. To quote Fezzas Wikipedia link ( can't believe i'm doing this wiki is a joke and it's no wonder most educational institutions don't allow it to be quoted by students let's face it anyone can write anything on wiki right or wrong)

"Rogue waves (also known as freak waves, monster waves, killer waves, extreme waves, and abnormal waves) are relatively large and spontaneous ocean surface waves that occur far out in sea"

Notice the bold bit "far out IN sea" ( beautiful use of grammar there ) nothing in that article about them hitting the shoreline..

Ben

[Catchin Jack]

That freak wave can hit land and most times it's only from a few feet higher than normal waves BUT the power of that wave is greater than a normal wave, they are usually steep sided with unusually deep troughs and go further up rocks, beaches etc than normal waves. I used wiki as an example, but do some research and learn something about mother nature, she is unpredictable and should always be respected.

These waves were once considered myth but studies have now shown that they do exist and can happen, it's been captured from space and on camera but I guess the professionals are wrong to eh?

[finin]

Firstly condolences to families. No fish is worth a life but it seems otherwise. A few weeks back i fished with a gentleman who was supposed to go rockfishing the day before. He cancelled with the guys he was fishing with due to the weather that was due. He also explained to his friends son that it is not a good idea to go fishing tomorrow due to the size of the swell. They are still looking for the body. He was on the phone the next day explaining things to the boys father in China as to what had happened. Yes they were warned but didnt listen.

" Ya cant educate mugs and ya cant put brains in statues" if people dont want to listen they wont. There is only one rock safety add on TV at the moment and its on TVS and only shown during the various fishing shows. Why cant the add go mainstream? Education is paramount, bloody hell we pay to fish why cant they use the money for an education programme instead of using it to teach an asylum seeker to fish? I have been in the situation fishing the rocks and have seen people of all varying types do some stupid things. Some people you try to help with things, some people listen, some people dont, some people tell you where to go. So now if i fish the rocks and see something i dont like or is an accident waiting to happen, well i just pack up and leave. The only rogue wave i know, comes usually the last wave of the set. Remember going for a surf check? I still go for a fishing check and watch conditions.

[squidda]

Sad news.But not surprising news.There is more info now on rock fishing saftey then ever before.Life rings at popular spots.Free dvds that are easy for all to understand.What else could be done?As long as there is rock fishing there will be deaths caused by it.Deepest sypathey for the family of the lost fisherman.

[joshot15]

It is a shame to see another life lost in the pursuit of a fish, but you won't easily stop it and there is no point directing comment towards the posting or not of locations etc. Some people will go out into dangerous situations no matter what. Big seas are deadly, moderate seas are dangerous, small seas you need to be cautious and wary, and calm seas are OK but still dont ever turn your back.

As for freak waves, a freak is something rarely seen. Rogue waves may be a term thrown about but I can tell you from the years I've been on the ocean, they are what we call sets. They are not rare at all and happen all the time if the conditions are right. Some geographical formations tend to be more likely to attract dangerous waves when certain conditions prevail and local knowledge is paramount. See Mavericks surf break or look into Frazer Park deaths.

Education is the only solution.

I had been fishing this location for a few hours and had seen many sets of waves in this time. NONE of them even came close to washing over the ledge as i was packing up to leave this one wave came and washed about 1ft water over the ledge (would have hit about knee hight on the higher ledge where i was fishing. Where the guy was trying to land his fish it would have hit about head hight)The surf was relatively calm on the day i was fishing so although it may not be a true dictonary description of a 'freak' wave, it was certainly freakish for the waves that i seen on the day.

[Alastair]

Just to weigh in with my 2c worth, on the subject of freak waves.

What Fez is talking about, is an open ocean phenomenon, and caused by a combination of sea-bottom profile, wind and current. Certainly well documented, and common in certain areas eg East coast continental shelf of South Africa. I have seen a 40 000 ton bulk carrier towed into Durban harbour, after an encounter with one, on a day where the prevailing seas were about 5m. The front 15m of the bow had been smashed down by about 10 feet by the force of the impact. For the local connection, this is largely believed to have been the fate of the Aussie ship "Waratah" 100 years ago.

However, coastal "rogue" waves are also well documented. Again offshore reefs, islands and bottom contour conditions can act in certain swell period and direction to act as a "lens", and refract the approaching swells, resulting in an interference pattern, where occasionally and unpredictably, a wave can be thrown up, which can be up to twice as big as the prevailing sets. Again certain areas in SA are notorious for this. With the far more rugged NSW coastline, I have no doubt this happens here as well, as others have described above

regards

Alastair

[helliconia]

I'd also add there is probably more to safe rock fishing than just watching waves?

What you guys with experience do if you did get washed off a rock? Or if your buddy was in the water?

What about safety gear? Do you wear/carry PFDs? Do you wear cleats all the time or depending on conditions? What about clothing, what is safe to wear? What about personal beacons? GPS units? Radios? Phones?

There obviously a limit to what is practical, but I'd be interested to know whats what

[The Incredible Hull]

I agree Hawkesbass, some compassion for the family would be appropriate.

This is clearly a case of lack of education. Here's a young guy, trying a new sport and he didn't have the right info and warnings when he needed them - namely when he decided to go.

I'd be interested to hear from experienced rock fisho's how they started and what access they had to information? If a complete amateur wants to start rock fishing, where can they find the information they need to do it safely? Where can they get the advice they need?

Surely there have been enough tragic accidents that can be used to drive home the safety message?

Why don't we give some thought to how we can deliver it, rather than labeling the victims as "idiots" and callously writing off their loss as "evolution in action".

Just on another note with regards to these posts. If a family member of the victim did enough hunting around I'm sure they could come across these posts. It might be worth considering the grief and pain you could cause someone with your comments.

There are those that ridicule, even though people have died, and there are some that make a difference.

Well said Emptyhooks