20ft plus fishing/weekend camping boat

[rod1448]

Hi Raiders,

I'm after your thoughts on a 22 foot plus boat that can be used for some game fishing and for a weekend away sleeping 2 adults and 1child.

I know this is a very broad question but what I'm after is your experiences/knowledge on a boat that may suit my needs.

Some of the criteria I have is as follows;

* max. budget is 60k

* does not have to be trailerable

* second hand boat not older than say 12 years (2000).

* will need to be large enough for the family to camp on it for 2 - 3 days and safe enough to take out to Browns etc. for some game fishing.

I would also appreciate both positive and negative thoughts on this idea.

I currently have a 19 foot Sea Ray half cabin which I have set up with good electronics, live bait tank, down riggers, plenty rod holders, camper covers, porter loo, etc. etc. but not a good enough boat to take out to Browns and to small to camp on.

Thanks for any help.

Cheers

Rod

Edited July 15, 2012 by Rod1448

[DrownNprawns]

first why only newer than 12 yo?

second you can get a lot of boat for that money a bit older

I've seen 28-30ft Rivs, berties, mariners for around K 50-60 only needing a little tidy up.

Id go diesel for something that size much lighter on pocket fuel wise also diesels last longer.(less things to break)

shaft drives are less trouble = cheaper to run.

IMO anyway. when I bought my boat she was 30 yo and the only important thing for us to do was new covers, mechanically she was and is first class.

Edited July 16, 2012 by DavidA

[rod1448]

Hi David,

Thanks for your reply.

The reason for newer than 12yrs is that I have heard a few stories about fibreglass rot and then also the engine should be more reliable, emphasis on the should. I guess I would need to look around as you say, I will probably get a lot more boat for the money. Can I ask what your boat is? It actually looks great in the picture.

Yes the diesel would be a lot better but looking around in boatpoint there doesn't seem to be many about. But I do agree it would be better specially for an older boat.

I don't know much about shaft drives, so they are more reliable? Why is that, I'm assuming the gear box is in the boat with the motor? With a shaft drive, is that when you have a rudder for steering? How hard is it then to steer when docking etc. as you would need some water speed to turn. Do you then require bow thrusters etc. for ease of maneuverability when docking in tight areas?

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

Rod

[DrownNprawns]

Hi Rod

My boat is a 1980 Mariner 31 flybridge. twin 130hp diesel shaft drive. twin shaft makes it turn on itself docking is very simple and no I have no bow thruster. We replaced carpet in and out covers, and I made new curtains for her. As with all moored boats for insurance and my peace of mind they have to have a marine survey done before final price is reached, they slip the boat and check for any osmosis blisters or any other faults. with my boat the owner paid for the slip and I paid for the survey. the work we have done on our boat has increased the sales value by about 15k on what we spent.

Shaft drives are simple and effective yes the gearbox is inside the boat attached to the engine. sterndrives if not used often can get weed and growth inside the housing slowing cooling water thus causing overheating. plus service fees.

the only negative thing I can think of for shaft drives is DONT run aground can cost a lot to fix. Where sterndrives can be lifted up.

hope this helps

David

Ps Ive been checking the market for about twenty years and this is boat number 16

[rod1448]

Hi David,

Thanks for your help. That makes sense, how much did the marine survey cost? Is it a requirement for insurance? Good idea anyway. Twin motors would make her very maneuverable, and how is she with fuel?

In your opinion when you look at a boat, how many engine running hours would you consider to many in diesel and petrol motors. I'm not sure how to relate it to car mileage because when you look at a boat say with 500hrs which seems like a lot to me and average it's speed to say 18 knots that means it has traveled just under 17,000km which for a car is nothing. But then boat motors rev a lot higher than car engines when cruising.

How far out wide do you take her? Does she handle it well?

Not a bad innings 16 boats in 20 years, so I guess I'm speaking to the right bloke. Well I have a bit of food for thought now.

[DrownNprawns]

Hi David,

Thanks for your help. That makes sense, how much did the marine survey cost? Is it a requirement for insurance? Good idea anyway. Twin motors would make her very maneuverable, and how is she with fuel?

In your opinion when you look at a boat, how many engine running hours would you consider to many in diesel and petrol motors. I'm not sure how to relate it to car mileage because when you look at a boat say with 500hrs which seems like a lot to me and average it's speed to say 18 knots that means it has traveled just under 17,000km which for a car is nothing. But then boat motors rev a lot higher than car engines when cruising.

How far out wide do you take her? Does she handle it well?

Not a bad innings 16 boats in 20 years, so I guess I'm speaking to the right bloke. Well I have a bit of food for thought now.

I had this boat 2years next month.

Survey cost around $900 - 1000 and yes for moored boats it is a requirement.

Fuel around 25 litres per hour at cruise which is around 10-12 knts, WOT is about 18 knts I take 2 20l jerrys down to top her up cheaper than on water prices by about 30 cpl.

Our boat had 3000 hrs over 30 years not big in running time (diesels made for big hours)and still purr when crusing.

havn't gone out wide yet, but last christmas we bought her down to sydney from central coast in 3-5metre southerly swell with big southerly blow I droped her off a couple of the bigger waves but arrived into Darlingharbour safe and dry. the boat handled it better than me

My diesels max out at 3500rpm but cruise anywhere from 2000 - 3000 rpm so they dont work that hard.

Sorry 16 boats in 43 years.

BTW when I was a teenager a bunch of Mariner 34 Boats where anchored in a bay across from us one day so I paddled over to check out these boats. that night I dreamed of one day owning one. well I picked a 31 over a 34

David

Edited July 17, 2012 by DavidA

[rod1448]

Thanks heaps for all your help. I will have to look at some Mariners, probably both 31 and 34 footers as I don't know the difference besides size, and obviously some smaller ones as well. I have also heard that Berties are good as well.

BTW how long did it take to sail from I'm assuming Brisbane Waters to Darling Harbour and how much fuel did she use. I mainly boat in Botany Bay and Sydney Harbor as she is on a trailer and easy to move about but when I get a larger boat she will be moored in Botany Bay and I would still like to take her to Sydney Harbour. In Google Earth I measured from Broken Bay heads to Watson Bay Heads about 32km and from Botany Bay heads about 21km. So if I know how long it took you in your 31 footer it would give me an idea. Thanks.

[DrownNprawns]

Thanks heaps for all your help. I will have to look at some Mariners, probably both 31 and 34 footers as I don't know the difference besides size, and obviously some smaller ones as well. I have also heard that Berties are good as well.

BTW how long did it take to sail from I'm assuming Brisbane Waters to Darling Harbour and how much fuel did she use. I mainly boat in Botany Bay and Sydney Harbor as she is on a trailer and easy to move about but when I get a larger boat she will be moored in Botany Bay and I would still like to take her to Sydney Harbour. In Google Earth I measured from Broken Bay heads to Watson Bay Heads about 32km and from Botany Bay heads about 21km. So if I know how long it took you in your 31 footer it would give me an idea. Thanks.

the first time woy woy to birkenhead was about 4hrs down both props cavitating over 2400rpm so in water bottom wipe 3hrs back cruising at 2500rpm second time 5hrs down 3-5 metre swell bad weather but boat felt safe 3.5 hrs back bumpy noreaster good run.

second run down running around and back took about half a tank on both motors which is about 215 litres all up about 15 hrs of varied run speeds.

The mariner 31 has a better hull shape under water than the mariner 34ft and lighter by about 2ton

Edited July 17, 2012 by DavidA

[rod1448]

Great, thanks for all your help.

Cheers

Rod

[Juggs]

Get a thorough inspection done a mate had diesels replaced in his 38 footer the bill was around 60k

One engine ingested water and died so he replaced both

[rod1448]

Thanks, that's what worries me with an older boat. I know it can still happen with a newer boat but chances are higher with the older ones. I will have to get it surveyed and inspected by a good reliable mechanic.

Cheers

[DrownNprawns]

Thanks, that's what worries me with an older boat. I know it can still happen with a newer boat but chances are higher with the older ones. I will have to get it surveyed and inspected by a good reliable mechanic.

Cheers

it also comes down to how well you do the checks (belts, oil, water, hoses, seacocks, skin fittings, etc) each time you are on your boat. If it looks bodgie, repair or replace before you get into trouble. that is my rule anyway

[fish2relax]

Rod,

Good luck in your search. I will be moving up from my large trailable to a 30-38 Riv in the next 12 months and I regularily keep an eye on mooring fees around brooklyn to know what I am up for.

Just be mindful to factor in cost of mooring and antifoul.

Regards,

Ben

[rod1448]

Rod,

Good luck in your search. I will be moving up from my large trailable to a 30-38 Riv in the next 12 months and I regularily keep an eye on mooring fees around brooklyn to know what I am up for.

Just be mindful to factor in cost of mooring and antifoul.

Regards,

Ben

Hi Ben,

Yes I have, but not sure yet if I will be swing mooring or not due to the high fees. What are the fees like at Brooklyn? and have you any prices on antifouling? What made you pick a Riv? Just that I have not decided on make yet.

Cheers

Rod

[DrownNprawns]

Hi Rod

Mooring fees on Brisbane waters for me was $300 ish per year. if your out side sydney metro gets cheaper.

Just over 2k for slipping and antifoul they did it all. you can cut down on price with a slab of the cold stuff and a few mates

Have a look on the waterways web for prices and availability of moorings in your area. cheapest way to moor a boat some marinas charge from 1k per month for mooring.

I did lots of research on this stuff before i bought this boat. call it frustration but it was 10 very long years between boats

David

[rod1448]

Hi Rod

Mooring fees on Brisbane waters for me was $300 ish per year. if your out side sydney metro gets cheaper.

Just over 2k for slipping and antifoul they did it all. you can cut down on price with a slab of the cold stuff and a few mates

Have a look on the waterways web for prices and availability of moorings in your area. cheapest way to moor a boat some marinas charge from 1k per month for mooring.

I did lots of research on this stuff before i bought this boat. call it frustration but it was 10 very long years between boats

David

Cool thanks, that sounds alright for swing mooring the slipping and antifoul doesn't, but I guess it needs to be done. How often do you antifoul, yearly? Do you know how much is slipping on it's own?

Cheers

Rod

[DrownNprawns]

Cool thanks, that sounds alright for swing mooring the slipping and antifoul doesn't, but I guess it needs to be done. How often do you antifoul, yearly? Do you know how much is slipping on it's own?

Cheers

Rod

they charge by the foot for sliping check your local marina all have varied prices and what is included. a friend slipped his yacht last easter and got a extra day or two for free.

antifouling mmmmmmmmmmm depends on how much you move your boat (dont move it stuff grows quicker than the weeds in your garden) down to how fast the current runs under the boat while on the mooring. my boat sat still for 6 weeks when i had the carpets and covers done and had to have a bum wipe to clean off my garden!

There is a thing called ultrasonic antifouling systems on the market that claim to stop marine growth which means 3-5 years without replacing antifoul still looking at that one about 2k for that system. thats where shaft drive win out, legs should be serviced yearly I think?????. but moored boats also have anodes that need to be replaced every year or so not expencive but very important

If you know how to suba most of this can be done while boat is in the water.

again glad to give any info to help.

I found that mooring a boat had its ups and downs big thing for me is it only cost about $1500 a year.

cheaper than owning big 4wd and space in the backyard......

and any work I do on she she is already floating a alway drop a line off the back, front ready for anythig that swims by

David

[Testlab]

My 36' searay was slipped and anti fouled in April. Total cost including anodes around $1650.00. It is twin shaft drive (v-drives). If you have outdrives then add about $500 plus parts per drive per year.

If you're used to outboards then with inboards get ready for a new world of stuff you've never heard of. If you do not have fresh water cooling on the engines then budget for replacing manifolds and other really expensive bits every five years ($4000) and possibly an engine every 10 years or less.

The exhaust elbows and risers will need inspecting every year and replacing on average around 5 years ($4000) no matter whether the boat you have uses fresh water or sea water cooling. If the cooling jackets rust through you wind up with water ingestion and potentially up for a new engine.

For fresh water cooled engines factor in a heat exchanger replacement every 10 years if you maintain them properly or 3 to 5 years if you don't. They are around $1500 each.

Batteries and solar chargers have to be kept in good order. A generator is not a bad idea if you plan to overnight often since you may not run the main engines long enough to recharge after a nights use and wind up killing the batteries.

Through hull fittings, stop cocks and hoses have got to be inspected and changed to prevent either cooling problems or the boat sinking depending on whether they let in too little water or too much at the wrong time.

With diesels you get longer life from the exhaust components if they are maintained properly but when something needs doing they are usually a lot dearer than petrol engines.

I have owned boats from 12 to 57 feet over 30 years, powered by outboards, Cats, Detroits, Cummins and I am also familiar with Volvo diesels. I also have had Mercruisers of various sizes, the Searay has twin 7.4L Mercruisers. The worst thing you can do is defer maintenance - it just gets dearer.

Deferred maintenance is one reason why so many big boats sit unused on marinas and moorings. What cost $5000 and gets left "until we get the credit card bill paid down a bit" or "we won't be using it until next year" will cost $7/8/9000 when eventually done. Or the list of work is now so extensive it's beyond some peoples budget or ability to complete.

It's not like owning an outboard and trailer boat. If you ever come to the Central Coast come look over mine and I can give you a run down on the systems you have to look out for. I am not trying to scare you off here, just give you an idea that it's not something you can leave without consequences.

[rod1448]

they charge by the foot for sliping check your local marina all have varied prices and what is included. a friend slipped his yacht last easter and got a extra day or two for free.

antifouling mmmmmmmmmmm depends on how much you move your boat (dont move it stuff grows quicker than the weeds in your garden) down to how fast the current runs under the boat while on the mooring. my boat sat still for 6 weeks when i had the carpets and covers done and had to have a bum wipe to clean off my garden!

There is a thing called ultrasonic antifouling systems on the market that claim to stop marine growth which means 3-5 years without replacing antifoul still looking at that one about 2k for that system. thats where shaft drive win out, legs should be serviced yearly I think?????. but moored boats also have anodes that need to be replaced every year or so not expencive but very important

If you know how to suba most of this can be done while boat is in the water.

again glad to give any info to help.

I found that mooring a boat had its ups and downs big thing for me is it only cost about $1500 a year.

cheaper than owning big 4wd and space in the backyard......

and any work I do on she she is already floating a alway drop a line off the back, front ready for anythig that swims by

David

So 6 weeks makes her very dirty. You must have to take her out for a bit at least fortnightly or so. Ultrasonic antifouling sounds like a great idea as well.

Cheers

[rod1448]

My 36' searay was slipped and anti fouled in April. Total cost including anodes around $1650.00. It is twin shaft drive (v-drives). If you have outdrives then add about $500 plus parts per drive per year.

If you're used to outboards then with inboards get ready for a new world of stuff you've never heard of. If you do not have fresh water cooling on the engines then budget for replacing manifolds and other really expensive bits every five years ($4000) and possibly an engine every 10 years or less.

The exhaust elbows and risers will need inspecting every year and replacing on average around 5 years ($4000) no matter whether the boat you have uses fresh water or sea water cooling. If the cooling jackets rust through you wind up with water ingestion and potentially up for a new engine.

For fresh water cooled engines factor in a heat exchanger replacement every 10 years if you maintain them properly or 3 to 5 years if you don't. They are around $1500 each.

Batteries and solar chargers have to be kept in good order. A generator is not a bad idea if you plan to overnight often since you may not run the main engines long enough to recharge after a nights use and wind up killing the batteries.

Through hull fittings, stop cocks and hoses have got to be inspected and changed to prevent either cooling problems or the boat sinking depending on whether they let in too little water or too much at the wrong time.

With diesels you get longer life from the exhaust components if they are maintained properly but when something needs doing they are usually a lot dearer than petrol engines.

I have owned boats from 12 to 57 feet over 30 years, powered by outboards, Cats, Detroits, Cummins and I am also familiar with Volvo diesels. I also have had Mercruisers of various sizes, the Searay has twin 7.4L Mercruisers. The worst thing you can do is defer maintenance - it just gets dearer.

Deferred maintenance is one reason why so many big boats sit unused on marinas and moorings. What cost $5000 and gets left "until we get the credit card bill paid down a bit" or "we won't be using it until next year" will cost $7/8/9000 when eventually done. Or the list of work is now so extensive it's beyond some peoples budget or ability to complete.

It's not like owning an outboard and trailer boat. If you ever come to the Central Coast come look over mine and I can give you a run down on the systems you have to look out for. I am not trying to scare you off here, just give you an idea that it's not something you can leave without consequences.

Hi,

Thanks for all the info, much appreciated. I currently have a 20ft half cabin SeaRay with a 4.3lt inboard so I have quickly become aware of all the extra costs involved but I guess if it is to do with boating it's not going to be cheap. I was not aware of the heat exchanger in fresh water engines but I guess it is necessary as they don't have fresh running air through them like in cars.

I'm also a great believer that if something requires repairing it needs to be done now and not later as you are correct they will only get worse hence more required from your back pocket.

Thanks for the offer, you never now I might take you up on it one day after I sell my current boat and closer to buying a larger one.

Your Searay looks great on the Pic.

Cheers

Rod

[DrownNprawns]

So 6 weeks makes her very dirty. You must have to take her out for a bit at least fortnightly or so. Ultrasonic antifouling sounds like a great idea as well.

Cheers

it's so hard NOT having a justifiable reason to be out on the boat every Saturday afternoon and most sundays to at least take her around the block if not to cruise around our fab waterways

PS hey testlab if you see me out there give us a call. would be great to chat

Edited July 19, 2012 by DavidA

[Testlab]

I think I know where you're moored.... Near the ramps? If it's not yours it's a twin to it (judging by the thumbnail image). send me a private message and we can exchange details.

Cheers

David (yeah, me too)

[DrownNprawns]

hi Rob

My best advice is to keep asking questions like you have done here and make a list of what you need, want and wish for on a boat then go with list and get on as many boats of all makes and models as you can. don't forget to get your misses to make her list too!!!! there is so much difference pic's on the net and stepping on any boat.

Good luck with your search.

David

[rod1448]

hi Rob

My best advice is to keep asking questions like you have done here and make a list of what you need, want and wish for on a boat then go with list and get on as many boats of all makes and models as you can. don't forget to get your misses to make her list too!!!! there is so much difference pic's on the net and stepping on any boat.

Good luck with your search.

David

Cheers.