Live baiting gear

[Mike89]

I'm hoping to get some new gear soon and am thinking of upgrading to a new reel and maybe rod for LB live baiting and sit-and-wait style dead baiting for bigger fish around 5kg and up.

What I'm using now is a 10ft Shimano $100 rod/reel combo (6500 reel) which has landed me a couple of good-sized flatheads and a couple of nice gummies. I also intend to use this rod at the beach when the weather gets warmer so I'm wondering if I should go for a shorter length rod for this kind of fishing.

Not too knowledgable on rod and reels so I was hoping for some help from the experts here -

Can I get away with a strong 7 or 8 foot rod here, or is the leverage that you get on longer rods necessary for those bigger fish?

What size reel and why is this important?

Recently got a new mid-range Shimano 3000 and not sure if this will be 'enough'. Also, do you need a bigger reel for beach fishing?

What brand/model/material would people recommend? I'm looking at mid-range here, I'm after quality gear that will last without needing to be cradled and that can take a few scratches and not fall apart.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Mike89

[Captain Spanner]

Hi mate, the length of rod will be more dictated on where you will mainly be fishing with it. I would recommend going 12ft for the beach to keep your line up out of the shore break and it can help with casting too. A bit of extra length also helps around rocks and breakwalls to help steer fish away from objects you don't want your line near. It also helps with casting longer rigs.

For fish in the range you are talking about I could recommend the shimano aero wave composite in heavy. It's a 6-12kg rod and is easily suited to that range. It's a very user friendly rod and light in the hand. It will cast live baits like yakkas happily and can pelt squid strips and strip baits well if you shape them aerodynamically. It also will handle big fish if you keep it loaded up well through the fight not being brutal on the angler as heavier rods might be.

Reel wise I'm not sure if the 3000 spools fit the 2500 reels or the 4000 reels but I would be looking at at least a 4000 size as a minimum. No need to go over an 8000. Depending on the fish you are chasing and you preferences you would probably get away with 30-50lb braid or 20-30 mono on an 8000.

One if my favourite beach setups is the aero wave rod spoken about above with an old shimano 6500B bait runner reel. I run 65lb whiplash braid which is overkill for the fish and the rod but the reason I do it is because I like to use a 50lb trace and when I get spooled by a ray or shark on the beach or off a breakwall and have all 300m of line out I like to know when I lock it up that the line will break at the other end so I don't lose all of my braid. This means I don't have to buy 300m more braid and it also means my night is not over from losing all of my line. Most importantly for me it also means whatever spooled me has 30-40cm of fluorocarbon in its lip and not 300m of braid which I'm sure would be in incident to tow around.

If you want to cast bigger baits than live yakkas you may want to look at the aero wave graphite in heavy. It is 13ft and has a lot of grunt both casting and fighting fish.

The penn prevails are also a great range of rods.

Also the daiwa sensor surfs. The penns are a little pricier and the sensor surfs more so again.

Glass rods are also an option and have some great advantages, including durability and nice soft action but are heavier to hold and don't cast quite as well.

If you are interested in glass rods then look at something with a MT7144 or FSU5144 blank. MT is multi taper, FSU is fast surf, 7 or 5 are the number of wraps (rod building terminology) and 144 is 144 inches (12ft long)

Any questions post them up. An 8000 size bait runner might be a good start if you are starting live baiting land based. 30lb braid will cast further but obviously 50lb is stronger. I fish a rod length of leader then trace.

[Mike89]

I think my Shimano 10ft is a fibreglass aerowave. Good rod and has done me well for the price. I might keep this one for now and upgrade to a longer beach rod for summer.

What do you mean in heavy? Is that the 6-12kg weight raiting? Is a glass rod fibreglass?

Thanks for the advice on the reels. I'll have a look at some of the brands you have mentioned. I'm using 30 or 40 lb braid at the moment (can't remember what it was). Why do you suggest using 20-30lb mono or 30-50lb braid - the braid is much stronger than 20-30lb mono, no?

Baitrunner reels were explained to me the other day, I'm still not sure why I would use this reel instead of a regular spincaster?

[Captain Spanner]

6-12kg is the recommended line weight (breaking strain) to suit the action of the rod. The other important factor is recommended casting weight if you are intending using livebaits as they can get heavy and you may need a different rod. A 6-12kg rod is fine on 30-40lb braid. Just be conscious or strain on your rod when busting off snags etc. or locking up your drag. A glass rod means a fibreglass rod.

A bait runner reel has a function where you effectively have two drag settings. You can have the reel set with a very light (free spool) like setting to allow your live bait to swim out or to allow the fish to swim off with the bait with minimal pressure to give him time to swallow it before sensing something is suss. You can engage full fighting drag almost instantly to set the hook and fight the fish by either flicking the lever or winding the handle rather than grabbing the spool and manually increasing the drag with the drag knob.

[Crossfire63]

The reason you'd use a bait runner over a normal spinning reel is your live bait can continue to swim freely rather than being locked into one position suspended beneath a float or balloon. Your other option is a LD overhead and just set the drag light until such times as something starts to annoy your live bait.

Another option if you want to use a standard spinning reel is the use of live bait clips, which negate the use of balloons and floats and stop your live bait swimming back up your berley trail. They also allow you to fish your live baits much deeper depending on the species your chasing

[pjbink]

Live baiting off the rocks is very different to beach fishing and you can't really cover both types of fishing with one outfit. What do you mean by 'live baiting'?

With regards to leverage a shorter rods is better for big fish as the longer the rod the more leverage is against you.

[Crossfire63]

Live baiting off the rocks is very different to beach fishing and you can't really cover both types of fishing with one outfit. What do you mean by 'live baiting'?

With regards to leverage a shorter rods is better for big fish as the longer the rod the more leverage is against you.

Why not???????????

I fish a 10'6 Silaflex 8W120 with either an Abu 7000 or Daiwa Sealine 50H off the beach and also use it for Live Baiting Kings off the rocks

Edited July 14, 2015 by Crossfire63

[pjbink]

Why not???????????

I fish a 10'6 Silaflex 8W120 with either an Abu 7000 or Daiwa Sealine 50H off the beach and also use it for Live Baiting Kings off the rocks

A big kingie or tuna would make short work of that outfit don't you think? Why not use an outfit more suited for the purpose, ie a much shorter LBG rod around 7.5 to 8 ft (less leverage against you) and a lever drag reel with at least 600m of 15 kg line or heavier?

[Mike89]

Game rod live baiting isn't really what I've got in mind (next year maybe?) - a large jewfish is probably the largest thing I'd be hoping for.

I will probably continue to use the aerowave for now, seems to be ok but will definitely consider getting a baitrunner reel when it comes time to upgrade.

So is there any need for a long rod when throwing livies off a wharf or rocks? Or simply a heavier ie. 6-12kg rod? Baits are small-medium yellowtail, garfish, poddy mullet if I can catch them and squid.

Thanks for your help - plenty for me to learn.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Mike89

[SgtBundy]

I have a 12' aerowave that I use off the beach but it also sort of doubles as my livebait rod off wharfs with yakkas, mostly because it has my heavier line and reel on it but also because the extra length helps with casting the longer livebait rigs I use. It can be awkward though - I have another 8ft rod I switch the reel to occasionally when 12ft is just to unwieldy. The aerowave has stood up to some heavy wobbegongs and a whaler shark - still yet to find that first jew or decent king though.

If you are livebaiting you probably need the combination of a heavier rod just for the casting weight, plus you are likely targeting larger fish too so you would want the extra grunt. As above 12ft works in a lot of situations but a shorter one might be more practical off some wharfs.

That said I am still learning myself so there is probably plenty of others here more qualified to give you advice.

[Twinfisher 4.9]

I agree, with respect to ABU, that a 7000 would not be an ideal choice. Rod length is always a compromise off the rocks - longer means more leverage and not in your favour but at times, a longer rod, once you get your fish close to the rocks can be an advantage. I think around 10ft is a good compromise. Good luck.

[Crossfire63]

A big kingie or tuna would make short work of that outfit don't you think? Why not use an outfit more suited for the purpose, ie a much shorter LBG rod around 7.5 to 8 ft (less leverage against you) and a lever drag reel with at least 600m of 15 kg line or heavier?

Please tell me where these big kingies are. I knock the 15 to 18kg models over not a problem on my gear. Im afraid big ones around Sydney are few and far between now days.

I haven't found a Kingie or a Tuna around Sydney or for that point anywhere in NSW that will take 600m of 30lb line to stop in years. Evan off a boat.

As a matter of fact my biggest kingie (31kg) land based was taken off the rocks near Kiama on a Penn 8500SS and 300yards of 30lb mono and I never even came close to being spooled.

if you think you need 600m of line to stop a kingfish you probably need to re assess what your doing. probably fishing too light which just puts extra stress on the fish.

The ABU does just fine with 300m of 20lb and in 20 odd years I've replaced one set of drag washers. Now running Carbontex Drags and it pulls up plenty of Kings, Mac tuna and small yellow fin. Lets face it your chances of taking on a barrel off the rocks around Sydney are pretty slim these days

[pjbink]

Actually the biggest kingies are often found close to the rocks (Sydney included). No you don't need 600m of 15kg line to land a kingie, but the extra drag pressure and quick application of a lever drag will come in handy (along with a shorter/ heavier rod). I am aware of occasional captures on light gear and long soft rods, but in most cases they will reef you in no time.

PS: An ABU 7000 only holds 300m of 20lb line which may not be enough for the still common Northern Bluefin Tuna.

[Twinfisher 4.9]

I was not questioning the line capacity of the ABU 7000, line capacity is never an issue with kings, though maybe with Northern Bluefin. If you can land 18kg (or 31 kgs?) kings from the rocks, then you must be doing something right.......

[pjbink]

I was not questioning the line capacity of the ABU 7000, line capacity is never an issue with kings, though maybe with Northern Bluefin. If you can land 18kg (or 31 kgs?) kings from the rocks, then you must be doing something right.......

Or lucky. Sometimes it happens on light gear perhaps due it being a travelling fish that doesn't know where the reefs are. All the ones I have hooked on lighter gear/ long rods off the rocks ended up reefing me. I only found success in going hard with short live bait rods and heavy drag. Actually I used to wind 40m of 60lb line over my 15kg line and fight them off that.