Casting 200m+, and the real world benefits of distance casting

[outdoordan]

So for those that know me, I am a bit obsessive when I get an idea in my head, and fishing in general is no exception. Always wanting to improve in all facets of my fishing, I identified a year or two ago that I needed to improve my casting. Now you often hear the same old comments “why would you want to cast that far as all the fish are  at your feet” or “you're casting over the fish”. Of course when you can only cast 50m, all fish you catch will be within that 50m. But what is beyond that? Now I’m not saying that you always need to cast as far as you can, far from it. Often the fish are right at your feet. But there are a lot of times when having good casting skills can unlock a whole new world of fishing opportunities.

 

One example that comes to mind is when I was sitting on one of my favourite rocks fishing for jew. It was approaching dark and the sea was fairly benign with only a little wash around. Not perfect conditions but I remained hopeful that the approaching southerly change would bring with it more favourable conditions. I had picked up a few squid and all was looking good except for the last piece of the puzzle, the southerly change. When the change did come, it came with vengeance. 20-30knots pushed straight in my face, it whipped up the once placid sea conditions and sent spray skidding across the rock platform. This would be where most people would pack up and go home (me included only a year prior). But I was able to clip down a juicy strip of squid and punch it into the blustery conditions. At this spot you must be able to hit the sand edge that starts about 40m out, and a lot of people would struggle to do this with a decent bait in calm conditions. Any cast that falls short rarely comes back due to the heavy reef. But this is where the hard work and practice paid dividends, and I pulled a nice fish of 15kg out of these difficult conditions. This same scenario has played out several times since, including just last week when i landed a 1m gummy off the same rock in the same conditons.

 

A rather sad looking 15kg Jew taken in difficult conditions

 

Another example is the snapper fishing that can be on offer off the Sydney ledges at the right time of year for those that can reach the gravel beds that sit about 100m off a lot of headlands. Or the great beach fishing that can be had in the deep water behind the first sand bar. I got a few school Jew over Christmas fishing these deep water edges and one shark that pulled 350m of 30lb before biting me off. And don’t get me started about the extra water you can cover spinning for pelagics, or being able to put baits on the edges of the channels in our rivers, for fish that use these areas as highways. Or the fact that (believe it or not) it takes less effort to cast further with good technique, meaning that you can spin for longer without tiring. The thing that all these fishing opportunities have in common, is they are off limits to most people that don’t open there eyes to what is possible through good technique and practice.

 

An 8kg Fish taken from the deep water behind the first break. The ability to cast a bait 80m was the undoing of this fish. I picked up another about 6kg two nights later fishing the same area. The other guys near by on the beach only managed shovel nose rays in the unproductive shallow gutters.

 

So to get back to my own journey into the world of distance casting. With a lazy few hours up my sleeve trolling youtube, my interest was eventually turned to distance casting and UK surf fishing. What an eye opener! What these guys are capable of rod and reel is simply amazing. The inevitable progression was to tournament casting and I was amazed to see that guys are casting in excess of 250m!!!! Including a group of people right here in Australia. I studied these videos in awe until it got too much for me and I grabbed my Nitro Messiah and Daiwa slosh 30 and hit the park to see what I could do. As I already ‘knew’ that I was a good caster and surely be casting 100+meters.

 

The reality check came when my best efforts were falling in the 70-80m range. I mimicked the techniques I saw on the youtube vids as best I could but could not crack that 80m. Deflated but not beaten I went home to regroup and vowed that I will make that 100m.

 

Fast forward a couple of years, and many mile stones later I finally cracked my first casts over 200m on the weekend, setting a new PB of 203m with 150gram lead!!! The sport of distance casting has opened up a whole new world of fishing possibilities as well as feeding my competitiveness. It has introduced me to a few likeminded nutters which I am proud to call my mates and my new found skills have accounted for fish that would otherwise just not have been possible.

 

So now I feel it is my turn to spruik the dark art of distance casting and in turn maybe open someone else’s eyes to the possibilities.

 

I really encourage everyone to get out on the field and see what they (and thier gear) are capable of. Often what people think they can cast compared to what they actually can cast is vastly different. But please be sure to keep safety in mind as a wayward sinker can be devestating!!

 

What a rod should look like. This is a 14'10 Century T1000, One of the most powerful surfcasting rods available. Goes to show the power of good technique.

 

 

[Mr Mullit]

G'day Dan,

Are you still using a slosh to get that sort of distance? Not that I practice but I'm stuck on about 70-80m with 65/80g metals. Casting metals over 100m on spin gear though. Any tips?

Cheers, Matt

[outdoordan]

Hi Matt,

The slosh is long since retired. I use a few modified 5500/6500 Abus and daiwa 7HT's for my field work, and Penn Squalls, Daiwa BG's and Avets for most of my fishing.

I still do alot of work with spin tackle and think i could certainly help you get a bit more distance out of your cast. First thing to consider is running lighter line. Once you have got your knots sorted out, you'd be surprised out hard you can pull on 10-20lb braid. Most people running 30lb braid are not fishing it anywhere near its limit and would find much better performance and distance using lighter line. I use 10lb braid for spinning 40gr metals for bonnies, frigates and salmon/tailor and find it ideal.

The key things to work on are solid foundation and foot placement, body weight transfer, looking up to promote a effective lead /lure tradjectory and focus on a strong push pull to finish.

80m with alot of the metals out there is actually pretty good distance and better than most people. But 100m+ should be achievable to anyone willing to put some time into their casting. I am thinking about putting an instructional vid together on basic casting pricipals. I will be happy to post it up once its done if admin allows.

[PaddyT]

Good stuff Dan- as an ex HSS maniac (until my shoulder died) casting long is certainly an asset that few have. Funny how many "100 M casters" come to grief when you take them to a footy oval and measure their best distance. In my early days up the Central Coast there where quite a few guys who could punch out 70-80M with an old fashioned MT8144 , Seascape , 27Lb Tortue and a 1/2X1/4. When the FSU blanks and Shimano Speedmasters came in some got 100+ in good conditions- I was no where near that class of caster . Most of them looking back had a full body swing and excellent thumb control!

[Mr Mullit]

Thanks for the tips mate. Like you  I usually fish 20lb/40g when I'm spinning for bonnies, rats etc. 10 would definitely increase casting distance but probably be a bit light on for my local spots. Plus I like to bridle up a lot of the bonnies and the like. Shorter fight happier bait. But I'll fill a spool with 10 and try it over at the beach.

What mods did you do to the abu. I've got a 7000 gathering dust i don't mind messing with.

Also where do you get your avet serviced. I need a new clicker for mine and tackle world shrugged their shoulders.

Thanks Dan,

Matt

[Short]

Hey mate good post, I'm beach or rock based myself too most of the time. Spent hours trawling youtube for the distance casting videos from the brits and yanks - hatteras casts, pendulum casts, ground cast etc. etc. Don't see anyone in Aussie casting like that!

I'm thinking of upgrading from current spin gear and beach rods with max. cast wight of 140g to overheads and better rods for casting big baits out a decent distance - you mention you have Avet reels, I've been eyeing off their magnetic cast models and some have really good line capacity plus with the mag brakes would be an easier way in to overheads without spending too much time picking apart birds nests, thats my thinking at least. How do you find the avets to use? Do you have an MC model or just the regular? Can you still use them for throwing metals off the rocks or is that better with a spin reel? Sorry to bombard you with questions....

[BrassRoots]

Great post to get the mind working. Would love to see an instructional vid. 

[outdoordan]

Matt,

The first thing to do is get rid of the level wind on your 7000. The next thing is add a mag break assembly. Clean the bearings and load that sucker with 0.35mm line. They are a very different spool design to the smaller abus with ultra cast spools. But will still have plenty of potential for distance.

I  modify and service all my own reels, so have never had a need to send them out. For parts i would normally contact the local supplier, or in the case of Avet, US supplier.

Short,

There are a few of us that pendulum cast here is aus. and there are various tournaments on throughout the country. Definately not main stream though. Distance casting is a bit of a dark art.

I use a MXL MC for alot of my bait fishing. They are a capable reel and well made. If i lost mine i would replace it in a heart beat. They will cast well and a capable caster can expect 150-180m out of one with a plain lead. They dont have the same potential for huge distance as a star drag, simply because a lever drag has more rotating inertia due to the drag washer as well as the spools tend to be heavier built to prevent distortion from the drag pressure which is applied directly to the side of the spool. For this reason, you need more energy to get them moving and more mags to calm them down, which consumes a bit of energy. This becomes more noticable on the lighter weights (ie lighter metals, 80gr = no dramas). They are pretty heavily magged out of the box and would make a nice introduction into the world of overhead casting.

One thing that bugs me is how easily you can knock them out of gear when putting in or out of a rod holder, or if it catches on loose clothing. Its only happened on the very odd occassion but always seems to happen at the worst possible times

Also look at the Penn squall 15. Awesome little reel, magged and inexpensive. They will cast 200m in the right hands!

[Short]

2 hours ago, outdoordan said:

Matt,

The first thing to do is get rid of the level wind on your 7000. The next thing is add a mag break assembly. Clean the bearings and load that sucker with 0.35mm line. They are a very different spool design to the smaller abus with ultra cast spools. But will still have plenty of potential for distance.

I  modify and service all my own reels, so have never had a need to send them out. For parts i would normally contact the local supplier, or in the case of Avet, US supplier.

Short,

There are a few of us that pendulum cast here is aus. and there are various tournaments on throughout the country. Definately not main stream though. Distance casting is a bit of a dark art.

I use a MXL MC for alot of my bait fishing. They are a capable reel and well made. If i lost mine i would replace it in a heart beat. They will cast well and a capable caster can expect 150-180m out of one with a plain lead. They dont have the same potential for huge distance as a star drag, simply because a lever drag has more rotating inertia due to the drag washer as well as the spools tend to be heavier built to prevent distortion from the drag pressure which is applied directly to the side of the spool. For this reason, you need more energy to get them moving and more mags to calm them down, which consumes a bit of energy. This becomes more noticable on the lighter weights (ie lighter metals, 80gr = no dramas). They are pretty heavily magged out of the box and would make a nice introduction into the world of overhead casting.

One thing that bugs me is how easily you can knock them out of gear when putting in or out of a rod holder, or if it catches on loose clothing. Its only happened on the very odd occassion but always seems to happen at the worst possible times

Also look at the Penn squall 15. Awesome little reel, magged and inexpensive. They will cast 200m in the right hands!

Cheers Dan thanks for the response. The avets look pretty mean especially with some of those paint jobs they do. Might have to pull the trigger on a new setup, guess I would be well north of $1000 by the time I get reel + good rod + braid. Dead keen on an overhead though, I hear what you're saying star drags are better to cast with but I would think lever drags better to fight with if hooked up to something big. Plus the nice loud clicker would be a bonus night fishing with a rod set in a holder. Can be a bit hard to hear the drag on a spin reel.

[outdoordan]

The sky is the limit when it comes down to how much you want to spend and what you want to do with it. If you do go down the path of looking at getting any high end UK gear, make sure you touch base first. I have more than a few century's and an AFAW and can offer some honest feedback on what would be most suitable. Thier cast weights are nothing like the local stuff we get here.

There are not many off the shelf overhead rods available in this country. Assassin rods from south africa are reasonable but expensive in this country for what they are, which is a average chinese made blank and average components. Penn Prevail 12ft OH is much better value. they seem to get a good rap, but i havent ever used one. The butt length is way to short for me with high reel. I think there is a crucis OH rod available too. I have never played with one so cant comment further. Century's start around the $500 mark and go through to over $1200 depending on what model your after. But they are quality gear. fitted with Titanium K guides, Autoclaved carbon fibre blanks and incredable distance potential.

The Avet is a great reel, but expensive. I have to recommend that you steer away from braid. If starting out, you will get the odd birdsnest, and these can be expensive in braid, plus anything lighter than say 50lb will cause issues of digging into itself, which will cause birdies and crack offs when you cast. Just get some cheap mono to start off.

[kingfishbig]

There aren't that many overhead surf rods on sale in Australia. The only other one I know of is the Daiwa Sensor Surf which is a very nice rod.

For reels you could look at the Daiwa Millionaire 7ht mag. Also the ABU 6500c Chrome Rocket. Though the latter comes with a level wind in Australia and is not magged (it is still very fast though and casts a mile). There are more choices if you by on line from overseas of course.

I don't see any advantage using braid and as has been pointed out even minor over runs will mean having to cut and discard line.

[Guest Guest123456789]

Hi Dan,

Great post thanks for sharing. I have been beach fishing before and unable to get the bait behind the break by a few metres, very frustrating.

i have a pfleugar salt 5000 with .35mm braid, would this be a good reel for long range casting?

What mods, if any do you suggest to make?

What in your opinion is the optimal weight (in grams) for long range casting with this set up?

What do you think is the optimal length of rod for this set up? I'm thinking a 14 footer.

cheers,

Luke

[outdoordan]

In many cases improvments in gear will see minor improvements in distance. But improvments in technique will show larger improvements in distance with any gear.

The best casting weight will be one that most suits the rod you are pairing it to. To light and you are unlikey to fully load the rod. The old addage rings true "you have to bend it to send it". To heavy and you will saturate the rod and dampen the rods natural recovery. or worst case you will end up with a rod with a few more pieces.

Prefered length is up to the individual, but for general beach work a 12-14ft would be ample. I cant picture the size of a 5000 salt, is it closer to shimano way of sizing or diawas?

One of the biggest restrictions to casting distance is actually the rig you are throwing. The drag of the bait and terminal tackle will rob distance big time. Look up distance casting rigs, pulley rigs and clip down rigs. they are the bees knees!! Would you believe me if i told you i can cast a half pilchard (actually it was simulated by using a 130mm squidgy fish with the paddle tail chopped off) on snooded 4/0s and 125gr sinker 113m!! 113m was the best of three casts, the worst was 99m. This was with my fishing gear ( a century 13' TTLDSM and Ultegra 5500) and a simple overhead thump cast with 20lb braid.

I am thinking it might be a good idea to arrange a surf casting day at some point in the future. This would be the best way to pass on some of the casting fundamentals as well as show you guys some of the distance casting equipment and rigs.

Would there be any interest in that?

[Mr Mullit]

I'd be keen. 

[Wellzy94]

I'd certainly be interested!

 

When it comes to distance casting, is there a major difference in cast distance between a glass and a graphite rod?

[savit]

40 minutes ago, Wellzy94 said:

I'd certainly be interested!

 

When it comes to distance casting, is there a major difference in cast distance between a glass and a graphite rod?

rod weight

[Guest Guest123456789]

Thanks Dan. Central coast and I'm keen.

[outdoordan]

Wellzy,

So that is a difficult question. If all else was equal, Graphite and carbon fiber rods would generally have the advantage due to the speed at which the rod blank recovers. But many other factors can also influence blank recovery other than just material, like resins used and tapers. Glass still has a much greater potential for distance than most people can extract from them, and there are much better glass blanks available than the average stuff we have seen in this country for the past 30 years. Where other surf fishing countries continued to develop there technologies, we just kept pumping out the same old stuff for the next few decades.

The trick is that different blank types require slightly different techniques to get the most of them, slower actioned blanks like some of the parabolic sea bass style rods as well as the older MT and SU glass blanks respond well to a slower more progressive casting style to get the most out of them. Faster actioned blanks will load quicker into their stiffer mid and butt sections which allows you to turn on the power a little bit quicker.

 

[Mr Mullit]

Just checked out some distance casting stuff on YouTube . WOW! I see what you mean about technique. Can't wait to have a crack at that. Level wind is out the abu. How much distance would a mag brake upgrade gain me or is it more of a casting aid and a bit more user friendly than the centrifugal system?

Thanks mate

Matt

[outdoordan]

A mag brake will likely cost alot of distance, but at least your lead will stay attached to your line . Crack offs go a long way!

In all seriousness, the mag just gives you an way of slowing down the reel to prevent over runs. There are other means to achieve this. The thumb will do a mediocre job. Enough for fishing and lobbing bait, but distance casting is asking for trouble. Centrifugal breaks are good, but the 2 little brakes in your 7000 are unlikely to be able to handle it on their own. another option is to use a heavier grade oil in your spool bearings, something like car engine oil will help to tame the reel further. Also with the spool design on the 7000s, it is possible to use the end caps in the centre of each side plate to apply a small amount of resistance to the spool axle.

In regards to the removal of the level wind, this would normally mean removing the top supprting bar from the cage. This would have to be cut out and is something that you cannot go back from. The reel will then be a CT version. The lower bar (where the pawl normally runs) is then replaced with a solid bar to restore the reel frame/cage rigidity. Google or youtube "abu CT conversion"

[Mr Mullit]

Thanks for the tips mate. I've slipped the lower bar back in. Not 100% but secure. I'll leave the top bar till i get the solid bottom bar. This reel is actually a 7500c3 i think. Stickers peeled off/ box chucked. 4 pin brake. Same thing or other mods needed?

Cheers Matt

[Guest Guest123456789]

Hi Dan,

Have you used the black magic longreach surf caster rigs? The bait release system looks very interesting. I like the concept of having the sinker and bait connected during casting then disconnecting upon impact. I also like idea of a float to keep the bait off the bottom. Are there any other ways to achieve this? 

[outdoordan]

The 7500 uses the same design as the 7000. As it is a C3 it has spool bearings, rather than bushes. They are a lovely reel.

Luke,

I have never used the black magic longreach rigs. They are a basic pulley pennel rig. The bait clip is a Breakaway impact shield and can be bought separately. They are an okay release system but require the use of crimps and beads if you are to make your own rigs. The good thing about them is that they will take any sized hook. There are several other bait clips that i prefer to use namely the Gemini splashdown solo clip and Breakaway IMPS clip. Both of these release clips are a bit limited on hook wire diameter, but there are ways around this. There are some local suppliers for these clips but i dare not mention them on the forum. I often just import them myself in a big order with tonnes of other bibs and bobs.

FYI The pulley rig was mainly designed to get the lead to lift up out of the way when fighting a fish in rough environments reducing the risk of snagging. The clipping down of baits features heavily in most of the UK rigs.

Clipping down your bait will improve distance significantly. So will knowing how to rig your bait properly. The added bonus is that your hook up rate will improve also.

As for foam, this is great idea and i use it a a lot. But more near the bait rather than on the leader. you secure it with bait elastic then build up your bait around this. The guys in south africa have big bait presentation down to an art and some time on google can teach you a lot.

[Guest Guest123456789]

Thanks Dan, I'll have a look at those clips. Looks great!

The float near the bait and the bait elastic sounds interesting too. Aside from getting your bait up off the bottom do you think it acts as a teaser also?

I just pulled the trigger on 20 metres of soluble PVCstring from flea bay. Will take one month to arrive and cost me $2.25. Have you used this before? The idea is you wrap your bait, cast it, then the string dissolves in the water.

[outdoordan]

Its got to give your bait more movement which cant be a bad thing. Plus a lot of fish hunt off the bottom. Jew included. So why not have your bait where they expect to find it. plus you have the added bonus of less shovel noses, dog sharks and other undesirables. But if you have a lot of side current or big seas, it can be hard to hold bottom with a buoyant bait.

I use hosiery elastic/bait mate. I get this from the UK as well. The black magic stuff is good too. But pretty expensive for what it is. It does not seem to deter the fish what so ever. Ive never used the dissolving stuff.