Tfp (nsw) New Direction

[BOB_SMITH]

To view TFP (NSW) New Direction news item try> http://www.thefishingparty.info/uploads/NE...0Nov%202005.doc 17 pages

or go to www.thefishingparty.info > under New Direction

Bob Smith

Edited November 11, 2005 by BOB_SMITH

[Grantm]

To view TFP (NSW) New Direction news item try> http://www.thefishingparty.info/uploads/NE...0Nov%202005.doc 17 pages

or go to www.thefishingparty.info > under New Direction

Bob Smith

Wow there is a lot of waffle there to read through ! Too much for my little brain to cope with.

I guess the basic concept is that TFP would like rec fishing and any funds raised to be controlled by people who are looking out for the best interest of the sport, and not controlled by people who dont give a toss.

What happens when further buyouts are wanted by the rec fishing community and the minister in charge but the minister in charge of the pro fishing community totaly opposes this. Who controls these two portfolios when they come head to head ? Sorry if this is a dumb question but i dont understand politics all that well, and im still keen to see the pro's subdued some what.

Cheers

[matty]

Arnt we all keen to see the pros subdued....

id like a bit more of an explanation too... not really into politics but im into fishing...obviously....

[BOB_SMITH]

Arnt we all keen to see the pros subdued....

id like a bit more of an explanation too... not really into politics but im into fishing...obviously....

Matty, Grant

Sorry about the WAFFLE but there is really 100 pages so far, so 17 pages is probably not so bad.

TFP believes in the "Rick Stein master seafood chef approach" in regard to extraction and use of our resource i.e. Catch and use locally rather than massive extraction for export dollars. The main aim of all this is to give recreational anglers the proper government recognition it deserves instead of being screwed and held to ransom. TFP realises the necessity for commercial fishing and will not deny the general public access to the resource so looking through the waffle, others (UK, US) have arrangements with the wild fishery where they(the government) pay for the retirement of commercial operations (legislation just the same as recreational fishing support be legislated) You now have expenditure committees who are supposedly suggesting these ideas and we have suggested that we need similar but not necessarily the same political support here in Aus. Checking the US Waffle there are many state recreational bodies/committees/joint groups that promote sustainable fisheries, so why could not that happen here.

You will note that TFP is calling for public ideas on this so we welcome any questions or comments. If the idea of this change of portfolios comes up with overwhelming evidence that it won't work or is not accepted by our anglers then TFP will have no choice other than to forget the idea, but at least the pro's and con's will be exposed.

Bob Smith

[Grantm]

Thanks for the reply Bob,

I agree that it is probably unreasonable to expect all pro fishing to stop. I mean people will always want a feed of fresh local seafood without having to catch it themselves and it unfair to think that eating local seafood is the sole domain of the rec fisho. People also shouldnt have to eat imorted crap.We live on the best piece of coastline in the world and seafood should be available to everyone not just rec fisho's. Ive said this in the past that the "all pros gone" approach is doomed.

My beef is that the main Sydney waterways that support a rec industry worth a hundred times the pro industry is being destroyed by unsustainable pro fishing activity.

I would simply love to see the pro fishing activity in these areas pulled right back. There is a squillion miles of coastine to work with that all hold fish and dont have to support a mega rec industry such as ours in Sydney and surrounds, why not work in these areas instead. Forget exporting this seafood and take only as much as the Australian community needs. Dont give our fish to Asia for christs sake, GEEZ.

Like I said before i am just interested to know who will keep the balance between rec and pro if they are run seperately. Will you not end up with two portfolios battling over the same territory. Who will decide on what is sustainable or not. I think it is great to have a voice for rec fishing and having more say in how to spend rec fishing funds, but i dont see how they can be seperated seeing as they sharing a resorce. We could end up with a great rec fishing system, but with no fish left in the ocean its all for nothing. Of course i could be missreading this too. If I am Bob please correct me.

Without a doubt the biggest problem is the current minister who is so heavily biased towards pro fishing its a joke. He was on the news the other night practically defending Indonesion fisherman staeling fish from our water and playing the whole thing down ! How stupid is this bloke !

A different minister with a more balanced view would probably be a great start.

Imagine what would happen to our waterway if Macdonald didnt have rec fishing to worry about. The place would be lined with trawlers including bloody overseas super trawlers overnight.

Who is going to police the pro's to ensure a sustainable waterway? Will we loose control all together ? Is having a seperate voice going to create more RFH's and slow pro activity ? At least with someone having to control both even token guestures like RFH's have come along ( to improve political standing in an attempt to show balance ), but it still helps having them.

Im not saying its a bad idea i just dont fully understand it and im hoping you can clear this up for me, like i said i could have this all wrong.

Thanks

[BOB_SMITH]

Grant

Your concerns are well noted and as with major US cities where a lot more large coastal populations exist on a shorter coastline the problem you highlight must be four-fold. We will delve into their rec/pro ratio/conflict and see if they overcome it or just simply worked together. For your question the following is relevant:

· At what level is commercial fishing accepted.

· What is the actual take of pro versus rec fishers (resource not money)

· Has there been any reduction in pro fishers from say 20 yrs ago.

· Reducing pro licenses (from my hatred of RFL’s money) without having TAC’s (or closed seasons) is FRAUDULENT.

· Does reducing bag limits and increasing size limits mean anything> who benefits.

· Having commercial fishers flooding the market for bugger all return (or a bill) is brainless and shows total fishery mismanagement starting from the Minister down.

· The recreational media promotes how good the fishing is > WHY???

· There are current suggestions that the recreational fish stocks are better now than have ever been including metropolitan estuaries.

· My association with fishing comps in the metropolitan area has most saying that they are going to the Harbour because it fishes better.

· Anglers tell me that they now have to access the dangerous cliff spots because the easy spots have been flogged to death !!!!!

· The general public does not contribute financially to the resource management >WHY

· The Minister promotes all this money being spent by government on recreational fishing (lets be honest, it’s your extra money and it pays hidden government costs)

As we continue to research and plan this new project in the run up to the 2007 state and federal elections we are asking for public comments and any public known research to either back or dispel it. $15 mil was the last federal bait so the door has been opened. As yet I really don’t know the answer but I can see the advantages of having fishing politicians in the system as a big start.

Grant, this has only just started but it seems anglers are wary of exposing their ideas either for or against.

Further, Isn't it interesting that the Federal Fisheries Minister is Ian Macdonald and the NSW State DPI Fisheries Minister is also Ian Macdonald (coincidence). Regarding having rec and pro separated (and having a fishing representative (s) elected and arguing your case as in a Barnaby Joyce situation) would be a threeway Ministerial standoff not two. The Environmental Minister also determines who survives in the resource. The main thing is that the 1 mil NSW fishers unite and innundate them.

Bob Smith

[Grantm]

· The general public does not contribute financially to the resource management >WHY

We are told that by paying a licence fee this is what we are doing. Obviously, with your hatred of the fishing licence scheme you believe this money is just frittered away in a non effective manner. That truely sux and needs to be fixed.

Grant, this has only just started but it seems anglers are wary of exposing their ideas either for or against.

Definately agree. Most people seem very 'stand offish' when it comes to offering an opinion perhaps not wanting to look silly. There is so much political talk it does intimidate some people. This is why I ask for plain english answers and comments which the average person can relate to and understand. We may get more input that way. Most people wont comment on the 17 page document simply because its too confusing.

Come on Fishraiders what are your thoughts - what do you guys want ?

TFP is clearly looking for some input from the people they are trying to stand up for by coming to a fishing website and there is very little unput or comment from most people.

There has to be more than the usual few people who have an opinion on our sports future and the future of out waterways. If there isnt, dont complain when the pro's wipe it out !

The main thing is that the 1 mil NSW fishers unite and innundate them.

Thats the hardest battle Bob.

Great to here your comments

Edited November 15, 2005 by Grantm

[BOB_SMITH]

Grant

Just to clarify the term "General Public"

I was referring to the 80% of the population who don't fish but line up to demand seafood and put pressure on the resource. The other misinformation is that the 20% of the population that is supposedly accessing the resource nationally, quite a big percentage just do it for either Recreation where most don't have the knowledge to catch large numbers of fish(kill or c & r) and probably don't care (but get screwed in this license debacle) and just as Tourists, venturing and expanding their fishing holiday experiences (spending money) or accessing the resource as an additional food source. Now we want the Sport fishers recognised.

Bob Smith

Edited November 15, 2005 by BOB_SMITH

[Grantm]

The more I ask the more I learn. Hope you dont mind my questions. There is so much thats goes on that most people dont know ( or get told ) that it boggles the mind.

You've got a tough road ahead and I wish you all the best in your efforts to make a difference and rectifying the poor state things are in. You've got my support.

[Grantm]

Bob,

Just a quick one, I note that you say TFP are calling for ideas and input, do people go about doing this ?

I also see that TFP is looking for membership from rec fisho's saying this is a big help, can you perhaps share some info on this and how it can help ?

Cheers

[BOB_SMITH]

Grant

Thanks for the questions and interest.

Yes we would like ideas and input from the wider community, not just on fishing things but general policy directions. There has previously been interaction between chat site users who wish us to be just a one issue party, then there have been many arguments saying that no votes will come by being a one issue party. My answers have been posted previously for all to see.

I did think that by posting this new direction on all the fishing sites (and I have sent to the fishing magazines) that feedback would come easily, obviously not, although there are some good chats on other sites and some downers as well.

If anybody would like to put their ideas or any research to us it would be welcome and it will be treated in confidence as all things related to members are. We do not on-sell or give any member information to anybody. Please send any information to me at sinali@bigpond.com or through the contacts page of our website or by post to The Fishing Party, 11 Watts Close, Singleton , NSW 2330

As far the membership goes no amount of paid up members would be enough really, but we only need enough to pay the bills. Membership money is only used to offset operational expenses such as stationery, printing, ads in papers, signs, I Fish I vote stickers, caps, Senate How to Vote tickets and some phone bills and the website. All persons in TFP are volunteers and there are no employees. So far, I have provided most of the finance just to get the party up and try to be self sufficient but getting interested persons to commit is very difficult.

We have to continually have 750 members in NSW to remain a registered political Party. The NSW Electoral Office has just confirmed that we remain registered with the required number so we are able to contest the 2007 election. We have had ATO audits and both State and AEC audits (AEC is currently being processed). We accept any member whether they are on the electoral role or not but we cannot include them in the 750 for party registration. Membership is $22.00 for 3 yrs and includes both AEC and State registration. (really a pittance) Financial members receive a member card. You can be a member of as many party's as you like. (only one party can rely on your name for registration)

I can email out forms on request (2 for NSW, 1 for AEC and 1 for State or they can be downloaded from the party website www.thefishingparty.info and follow the instructions. Do not send them to any electoral office, they must come back to TFP.

TFP does not solicit membership nor does it attempt to solicit political beliefs.

Donations and any volunteer help will not be rejected. Receipts are issued for any monies received.

We will be targetting the Upper House and about 10 Labor held seats this coming 2007 election where we will be seeking candidates and volunteers to help hand out HTV tickets and display TFP signs.

Bob Smith

[Grantm]

Gday Bob,

Thanks for you reply as always and the info.

Here is a curly one for you.

Could you please state your position in regards to any affiliation the commercial fishing industry or groups ?

Are any commercial fishing groups or individuals members of The Fishing Party, or do any have an interest in The Fishing Party ?

I am not trying to stir, they are genuine questions as I am still having trouble seeing a clear line in the sand.

Thanks

[BOB_SMITH]

Grant

The Fishing Party is run by some dedicated Newcastle recreational fishers. Commercial fishing will never control or run the party as long as I and our committee are in control. I do know some commercial fishers and I know the manager of the Sydney Fish Markets on a pretty good basis. I have been there many times to see him and also visit Ocean Watch office.

I have talked with the commercial fishers many times in the early days and as a matter of fact I stood up at one of their rallies on the steps of Macquarie Tower and talked about destructive commercial fishing practices and was booed. But after, some came over and shook my hand and concurred with what I said. I have even tried to get the greens and the commercial fishers and rec fishers sitting at the one table but in doing so I copped the flack from AFTA and was condemned. I have been involved in meetings (as a guest) with Fisheries and Commercial fisherman and have been chucked out of Obeid's office with in a heated argument.

I spent the first year of this with an average of 3-4 trips per fortnight to Sydney wearing away the carpet in Macquarie Street talking with Politicians and being a pest.

As far as commercial fishers being members of TFP, there are NO commercial fishers who are financial members to my knowledge. We really don't know what our members do for a living and we are not racist.

Commercial fishers do not donate any money to TFP. (not many recs do either)

I have had a great deal to do with a commercial fisher at Manly who has worked with me taking on the Manly Council and the Government over the Old Gasworks Site which is contaminated with Cyanide and leeching into the water. The Anglers Action Group would verify that.

I also tackled the council there with this commercial fisher on the closing of Cabbage Tree Bay to all forms of fishing and tried to stop the total closure in relation to the little penguins at Quarantine.

I have been accused many times over the years of being a stooge for the commercial industry, a stooge for the Labor Party, a front for the Liberals and a disguised greenie and also a front for the Outdoor rec party. All of which was just propaganda. I got sick of being on certain chatsites and answering crud.

Shit I must have been busy. All along I have been the President of the New South Wales Fishing Clubs Association, President of the Australian Anglers Association, President of the Newcastle Anglers Association and I was a Builder when I had the time. If there is any doubt to my allegiance then god help anybody else who wants to do this. I wear coloured undies also and do very little fishing (due to some injuries). Oh and also nearly divorced on many occassions.

My Environmental Officer and I have toured the Southern and Inland areas looking at the stuffed silted up estuaries and talked with Oyster Growers on water quality. We have even had a look at the toxic goldmine runnoff stuffed Molonglo River near Canberra and associated ourselves with the Ballallaba group there for fixing it up. The Byron Bay MP has taken up time and many miles in travel as well. So did the Solitary Island MP at Coffs. Now it is the Manning and a few more.

Has it been worth it:- YOU BET

Will I stop:- NOT LIKELY (but I am now limited physically)

Bob Smith

In 4 years I wore out 2 new commodores and wrecked a Toyota Landcruiser tabletop.

Edited November 18, 2005 by BOB_SMITH

[Neilium]

G'day,

Yeah, I can remember when I could walk out on speerses jetty n catch a heap of tiny bream, squire, tailor n trevallies. all less than four inches long.

Nowdays the jetty is gone of course, it slid westwards a few hundred yards n turned into stone, hardly see anyone on it compared to the squeezie fishing pozzie one had to grab on the ol jetty of a weekend, talkin 50's here. Yes n now all I catch there is heaps of tiny bream, squire, tailor n trevallies. none more n four inches long...

And what are the actual levels of heavy metals in the cockle creek lake entrance anyway? I've never seen them posted in Govt publications.

Cheers Neil

[Grantm]

Seems you've had to deal with a lot of crap and jump many hurdles.

I think its important to ask these questions because not many people know what you've had to go through or fully understand The Fishing Party.

Im very glad to hear that the Commercial industry have no ties.

In my mind there is no doubting your integrity, whether The Fishing Party can make a difference remains to be seen but I hope it can.

Unfortunately I doubt many National DPI ministers will support your new direction and getting it moved may not happen based on their collective view, but im sure your give it you best shot.

I still believe getting Macdonald out would be a great start and trying to change the view of the cuurrent government towards rec fishing is more likely, but like you say we need a loud collective voice. If this cant happen ina different portfolio it still needs to happen.

P.S

Sorry to hear to cant fish as much as you would like.

Cheers

[BOB_SMITH]

If anybody is interested The Fishing Party in conjunction with the Coopernook/Harrington Residents Action Group are hosting a Public Meeting this coming Wednesday night 23rd Nov at the Harrington Bowling Club. 7.00pm

I will be chairing the meeting. The local member Robert Oakeshott, Taree Mayor Eddie Loftus and Taree Economic Development Officer Chris Ryan, Ken Thurlow recreational representative of the Byron Bay Marine Park Committee, local business representatives, recreational fishing clubs, commercial fishers and general public will be hearing concerns about Marine Parks in the Manning. Plenty of time will be allocated to take questions from the floor. Could be interesting.

Anybody interested please come.

Bob Smith

[Grantm]

Should be having it at the Harrington Hotel not the Bowlo !

My wifes family own it

[BOB_SMITH]

Sorry about that Grant

We had our FCA State AGM at the pub 2 weeks ago

What relation is Adam

Bob Smith

[Grantm]

What relation is Adam

Bob Smith

Brother in law - What a small world eh.

[BOB_SMITH]

Grant

I will go and have a yarn (and put a good word in for you)

I need to talk to them about the Marine Park anyway.(no fishing means no drinking or anything else) There is two fishing clubs operating from there who I have onside. We have just done a TV segment on Prime and sent a letter to Macdonald about getting the back channel bait ban regulations lifted. (still to remain in swimming lagoon where it was originally supposed to be but they got carried away when gazetting the regulations).

I am told there used to be 40 foot of water in there and monster jew. Now you can nearly feed the cows at low tide.

There is a proposal to remove 65,000 cm of sand/fill out so there is not much sense in having a bait collecting ban.

Another job for TFP

Bob

[BOB_SMITH]

Grant

Spoke to Adam and he does remember you (mad about fishin he said)

Took some photos. Adam was complaining about the mud. Do you think it needs dredging seeing there used to be 40 foot water there once. Plenty of yabbies in an area that is going to be dredged. Hence the request to have bait ban lifted.

Bob Smith

[Grantm]

Grant

Spoke to Adam and he does remember you (mad about fishin he said)

Took some photos. Adam was complaining about the mud. Do you think it needs dredging seeing there used to be 40 foot water there once. Plenty of yabbies in an area that is going to be dredged. Hence the request to have bait ban lifted.

Bob Smith

Ha Ha yeah he'd want to remember me, I see him often enough. Been through some very tough times together sadly. Top bloke is Adam.

Anyhoo

Make a huge difference to get that place dredged, its bloody awfull. Hard to believe it used to be so deep.

I hope you can get it done Bob, sure he would too seeing is that he just bought a new boat.