Straight through mono recommendations

[Little_Flatty]

Hi all,

What’s old is new again!

I’ve had a bad spell where I’ve had a number of fish bounce off the hooks during a fight. Basically haven’t landed a fish for about five sessions now, in spite of quite a few hookups. So I was thinking about a change.

Fishing topwater hardbodies with trebles and assists. I have heard that straight through mono or flurocarbon may assist with hook retention, but not sure what to consider. I do have a reel with 3lb fluorocarbon which I will try, but I’m worried it may be a bit light for some of the by catch I have encountered of late.

Some questions:

I have been told fluorocarbon sinks and can affect topwater lure action. Is this true or does it not make a practical difference?

Also if I want to use a higher line class, how high can I go? I was thinking potentially up to 6-8lb for bream in gnarly structure.

Finally, on mono: what do people use these days for light line classes? I was thinking either maxima ultragreen or IGFA but I don’t know what is popular these days and why.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Mike

Edited May 4 by Little_Flatty

[slowjigger]

8 lb won't put bream off. Won't cast light lures as far as braid though. Maxima Ultragreen is an excellent line. Supposed to be hard for fish too see as well (might just be a marketing thing). 

[Robbo from Sydney]

23 minutes ago, Little_Flatty said:

Hi all,

What’s old is new again!

I’ve had a bad spell where I’ve had a number of fish bounce off the hooks during a fight. Basically haven’t landed a fish for about five sessions now, in spite of quite a few hookups. So I was thinking about a change.

Fishing topwater hardbodies with trebles and assists. I have heard that straight through mono or flurocarbon may assist with hook retention, but not sure what to consider. I do have a reel with 3lb fluorocarbon which I will try, but I’m worried it may be a bit light for some of the by catch I have encountered of late.

Some questions:

I have been told fluorocarbon sinks and can affect topwater lure action. Is this true or does it not make a practical difference?

Also if I want to use a higher line class, how high can I go? I was thinking potentially up to 6-8lb for bream in gnarly structure.

Finally, on mono: what do people use these days for light line classes? I was thinking either maxima ultragreen or IGFA but I don’t know what is popular these days and why.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Mike

Great questions Mike.  Whilst things change and improve over time and we all are attracted to "the next big thing" it is always good to critically analyse them based on experience and decide whether it is an improvement for what you do. In the interim sometimes the technology in the "old" can play a bit of catch up.

[Little_Flatty]

3 minutes ago, Robbo from Sydney said:

In the interim sometimes the technology in the "old" can play a bit of catch up.

It certainly can! A bit like the massive changes in bicycle technology since the advent of the car. I just thought I’d ask as the last time I bought mono to spool a reel was more than 20 years ago.

[zmk1962]

I'm no expert in this area (limited experience actually) so please treat this as a suggestion only. What about a long mono leader (2 x rod length) ... that should provide some of the stretch and give that you are seeking  and still give you most of the benefit of the braid. It's what I do offshore on my trolling rods (5m of leader backed by braid) as braid straight through can/will pull hooks on a strike.

Cheers Zoran

Edited May 5 by zmk1962

[Green Hornet]

I agree with Zoran Mike, use a leader double the length of your rod to provide a bit of stretch. Stick with braid or you’ll lose that sensitivity you need to get the best action out of your surface lures. Straight through mono or FC really work best when slow rolling shallow running minnows and the like.

There’s really not a lot of difference between mono or FC leaders, in theory FC sinks but your pauses aren’t long enough to allow this to happen. If you’re pedantic you can rub a little Vaseline or S-Factor on the first meter or so of your FC leader to help it float.

If you’re going to go full mono, you need a supple line that will sit nicely on your small diameter spool. I like Platypus Platinum because as well as being supple, it’s thin and casts light weights quite well. Maxima is supple, but a fair bit thicker than the Platypus. Both lines offer a good amount of stretch which I find good for light tackle fishing.

[dirvin21]

On the flip side too much stretch might affect hooking the fishand affect the lure action 

I use 8lb fluorocarbon leader if you run a light drag you shouldn't pull many hooks

[slothparade]

I used to fish only mono for years, but over the past 6 years have completely switched to braid. 

Firstly, I found that when casting lures, particularly lighter soft plastics or smaller stick baits eg, sugar pen. The casting distance was cut short, which was quite noticeable when I made the change. Furthermore, the sensitivity of braid is a bonus over mono, especially for lure fishing.  

The main reason for the change was the memory in my line was driving me insane. I believe I got about a year or 2 per a spool, (I just replaced the whole spool and saved the line for backing). I found that the with the memory the line would come out like a stretched slinky, which significantly undercut casting distance. Furthermore, I found that because the line kept coming out twisted, it would get tangled around the tip of the rod constantly, or not spool correctly back onto the reel. 

I'm not going to claim to be an expert when it comes to lures, but personally I would consider a couple of options. 

Firstly, I would consider instead of using mono, I'd would use flurocarbon. I would choose flurocarbon over mono as flurocarbon has a lot less memory than mono, which I have personally found to be significant. It also has the benefits of being relatively cheap, can be used as a leader, abrasion resistant and is said to be harder to see Under water. I'm actually in the process of spooling another beach reel with straight fluro instead of mono. 

Secondly, if you would like to keep your braid, I would consider putting a wind on leader, consisting of 1-2 rod lengths of fluorocarbon spooled onto your reel. I have done this on a couple of my spinning reels which work great, and all of my overheads. The down side to fluro is it may have less stretch than mono. 

 Hope this helps 

[Little_Flatty]

Thanks @zmk1962 @Green Hornet @dirvin21 @slothparade.

I will try a longer mono leader as well as my straight through fluro setup. See how I go!

[slowjigger]

I would have thought the memory mono would stop mono wrapping around the tip. Certainly, doesn't have the wind knot problems of braid. I agree that pulled hooks shouldn't be too much of a problem if you adjust your fighting style - such as using a light drag.  One mono advantage is easier re rigging. Just tie your lure or snap on. No complicated braid to leader knots.

Edited May 5 by slowjigger

[BaitDropper]

Well, it's Neanderthal man here  🤪..

I recon I must be the last of the " mono" men standing !!   Old habits maybe, stubbornness perhaps, or simply don't change from something that's working.

I do have my two Saragossa's spooled with mainly braid, with a rather long top shot of mono, and one of my Penn rebuilt reels with braid and a 100 meters of mono top shot.

I'm a shocking caster of braid, probably never been shown correctly, especially for the smally fishing, Bass and bream etc.

Maybe I'm living in the past, Dunno, maybe as I fine tune my river fishing I'll take the plunge and swap over to braid, but I'm kind of happy with my results and strike rates thus far.

It's an interesting subject, especially if you look at the evolution of line over the years, from the days of the cuttyhunk line which was a type of twisted linen. I have a vintage 12/0 senator from the 30's, which came with that cuttyhunk line which had hardly been used, they had to periodically remove the line, wash it and hang it to dry back in those days, can you imagine doing that all the time !!..  Now we have braid, which seems to have over taken the age-old Mono line.  It's a very interesting topic, especially how reels changed to accommodate these line changes...

Edited May 5 by BaitDropper

[Mike Sydney]

A timely topic @Little_Flatty I actually spooled my Sedona yesterday with straight through mono (10lb Shimano exage). My reasoning was that I was attaching it to a very cheap fishquest rod (my very first fishing rod a few years back, very bendy tip) and so that old rod didn’t “deserve” the expense 😄

The extra stretch on mono to me made more sense for the type of fishing I’ll be using on that rod (float-fishing bread for mullet) where the float meant I didn’t need the added sensitivity of braid.

I’d argue it probably makes sense for fast moving lures as well to better absorb shock of sudden strikes. But whether that absorption makes up for the lack of casting distance probably depends on the location.

[Little_Flatty]

9 hours ago, slowjigger said:

I would have thought the memory mono would stop mono wrapping around the tip. Certainly, doesn't have the wind knot problems of braid. I agree that pulled hooks shouldn't be too much of a problem if you adjust your fighting style - such as using a light drag.  One mono advantage is easier re rigging. Just tie your lure or snap on. No complicated braid to leader knots.

Wind knots is one of the reasons I wanted to try going back to mono. It's been particularly noticeable since I've started fishing more poppers and stickbaits and everything I've tried (including some good tips here) has failed. Not sure why. The lack of a need to tie a leader (assuming I've chosen my line class appropriately) is also attractive.

9 hours ago, BaitDropper said:

Well, it's Neanderthal man here  🤪..

I recon I must be the last of the " mono" men standing !!   Old habits maybe, stubbornness perhaps, or simply don't change from something that's working.

I do have my two Saragossa's spooled with mainly braid, with a rather long top shot of mono, and one of my Penn rebuilt reels with braid and a 100 meters of mono top shot.

I'm a shocking caster of braid, probably never been shown correctly, especially for the smally fishing, Bass and bream etc.

Maybe I'm living in the past, Dunno, maybe as I fine tune my river fishing I'll take the plunge and swap over to braid, but I'm kind of happy with my results and strike rates thus far.

It's an interesting subject, especially if you look at the evolution of line over the years, from the days of the cuttyhunk line which was a type of twisted linen. I have a vintage 12/0 senator from the 30's, which came with that cuttyhunk line which had hardly been used, they had to periodically remove the line, wash it and hang it to dry back in those days, can you imagine doing that all the time !!..  Now we have braid, which seems to have over taken the age-old Mono line.  It's a very interesting topic, especially how reels changed to accommodate these line changes...

Nothing wrong with using mono. There's a few here who do. I've forgotten what it's like to fish with mono, it's been so long!

7 hours ago, Mike Sydney said:

A timely topic @Little_Flatty I actually spooled my Sedona yesterday with straight through mono (10lb Shimano exage). My reasoning was that I was attaching it to a very cheap fishquest rod (my very first fishing rod a few years back, very bendy tip) and so that old rod didn’t “deserve” the expense 😄

The extra stretch on mono to me made more sense for the type of fishing I’ll be using on that rod (float-fishing bread for mullet) where the float meant I didn’t need the added sensitivity of braid.

I’d argue it probably makes sense for fast moving lures as well to better absorb shock of sudden strikes. But whether that absorption makes up for the lack of casting distance probably depends on the location.

That's a coincidence! Mullet for bait, food or fun?

As for casting distance, I'm figuring if I keep it light, it shouldn't be a problem.

10 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

I agree with Zoran Mike, use a leader double the length of your rod to provide a bit of stretch. Stick with braid or you’ll lose that sensitivity you need to get the best action out of your surface lures. Straight through mono or FC really work best when slow rolling shallow running minnows and the like.

There’s really not a lot of difference between mono or FC leaders, in theory FC sinks but your pauses aren’t long enough to allow this to happen. If you’re pedantic you can rub a little Vaseline or S-Factor on the first meter or so of your FC leader to help it float.

If you’re going to go full mono, you need a supple line that will sit nicely on your small diameter spool. I like Platypus Platinum because as well as being supple, it’s thin and casts light weights quite well. Maxima is supple, but a fair bit thicker than the Platypus. Both lines offer a good amount of stretch which I find good for light tackle fishing.

I did end up trying the double rod length leader and the lighter drag. Alas, no fish big enough to test the theory in the afternoon (although I did have a school of salmon busting up just out of casting distance!).

I'll have a think about Platypus Platinum if I go down the mono route. I'm thinking about it for my car rod (the one I keep in the car for impromptu trips) as the lack of a need to carry leader material is very attractive. I am really quite enjoying their Platypus' pulse braid, which I only bought after confusing it with bionic braid.

[Steve0]

8 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

Wind knots is one of the reasons I wanted to try going back to mono. It's been particularly noticeable since I've started fishing more poppers and stickbaits and everything I've tried (including some good tips here) has failed. Not sure why. The lack of a need to tie a leader (assuming I've chosen my line class appropriately) is also attractive.

Nothing wrong with using mono. There's a few here who do. I've forgotten what it's like to fish with mono, it's been so long!

 

Quite a few things contribute to wind knots, including design factors of rod, reel and how they combine, but a lot of knots are caused by loose loops of line, either on the spool or across the face. All I can suggest is checking before you cast.  If you discover loose loops is your problem, you need to work on technique but switching to mono would be a viable alternative.         

8 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

I did end up trying the double rod length leader and the lighter drag. Alas, no fish big enough to test the theory in the afternoon (although I did have a school of salmon busting up just out of casting distance!).

It can be frustrating having schools of fish just out of reach. Some think, "that's fishing", but others want longer casts. Braid helps with the latter.  Something to consider in your decision is whether it would bother you if a school is out of your reach and someone else is hooking up.

There is an alternative option - a spool of mono for stick bait & poppers and a spool of braid for lead lures on occasions you want longer casts.

 

[GoldenHourFishing]

Hello

If you are pulling hooks regularly its most likely due to the rod, a fast action rod is less forgiving on trebles because it will help you set the hook but it doesnt absorb the impact of the head shakes like a slow taper rod does, I try to avoid using small trebles hardbodies on my fast taper rods, a 1-3kg slow taper (talking bream fishing) would be better suited however they have more of a "sloppy noodle" feel as they will bend right down past the halfway point of the blank. Zodias, Ajing rods for example are very sloppy and wobbly because you need those tiny ajing hooks to stay in when the fish takes lunges. I just find them less fun to cast with. 

 

You can try mono because yes it stretches but you will sacrifice sensitivity and casting range as someone else mentioned, there would be some "lag" from the moment you feel the hit because the line stretch would absorb some of the initial impact. But for topwater this shouldnt matter because you are essentially just winding the fish on as opposed to ramming that hook in. 

[Little_Flatty]

7 hours ago, Steve0 said:

Quite a few things contribute to wind knots, including design factors of rod, reel and how they combine, but a lot of knots are caused by loose loops of line, either on the spool or across the face. All I can suggest is checking before you cast.  If you discover loose loops is your problem, you need to work on technique but switching to mono would be a viable alternative.         

It can be frustrating having schools of fish just out of reach. Some think, "that's fishing", but others want longer casts. Braid helps with the latter.  Something to consider in your decision is whether it would bother you if a school is out of your reach and someone else is hooking up.

There is an alternative option - a spool of mono for stick bait & poppers and a spool of braid for lead lures on occasions you want longer casts.

 

Thanks Steve. I’m still trying to work out where the loose loops are coming from. Tried @Green Hornet’s trick of tightening the braid before the retrieve but it’s still happening. It’s worse with lighter braid than heavier (went up to 8lb just to experiment).

Could be technique. Hasn’t happened with all my other forms of lure fishing with braid. I suspect with top water there is more line in the air compared to a plastic or blade.

3 hours ago, GoldenHourFishing said:

Hello

If you are pulling hooks regularly its most likely due to the rod, a fast action rod is less forgiving on trebles because it will help you set the hook but it doesnt absorb the impact of the head shakes like a slow taper rod does, I try to avoid using small trebles hardbodies on my fast taper rods, a 1-3kg slow taper (talking bream fishing) would be better suited however they have more of a "sloppy noodle" feel as they will bend right down past the halfway point of the blank. Zodias, Ajing rods for example are very sloppy and wobbly because you need those tiny ajing hooks to stay in when the fish takes lunges. I just find them less fun to cast with. 

 

You can try mono because yes it stretches but you will sacrifice sensitivity and casting range as someone else mentioned, there would be some "lag" from the moment you feel the hit because the line stretch would absorb some of the initial impact. But for topwater this shouldnt matter because you are essentially just winding the fish on as opposed to ramming that hook in. 

Thanks, more food for thought. Interestingly the last fish lost was on a stiffer rod (3-5kg flathead raider). I have a 1-3kg veritas that has the properties you mention. Will give that a shot too.

[Steve0]

35 minutes ago, Little_Flatty said:

Thanks Steve. I’m still trying to work out where the loose loops are coming from. Tried @Green Hornet’s trick of tightening the braid before the retrieve but it’s still happening. It’s worse with lighter braid than heavier (went up to 8lb just to experiment).

Could be technique. Hasn’t happened with all my other forms of lure fishing with braid. I suspect with top water there is more line in the air compared to a plastic or blade.

Thanks, more food for thought. Interestingly the last fish lost was on a stiffer rod (3-5kg flathead raider). I have a 1-3kg veritas that has the properties you mention. Will give that a shot too.

In my experience, soft line is more prone to wind knots than stiff line. It just demands a bit more focus. Assuming the same brand/type, logically, fine braid would be softer than thick braid.

I go further than manual close, etc. I look at both spool and reel face before casting. Loops seen before casting are far easier to fix than wind knots. Their appearance might also help you focus on what you were doing on the last retrieve that may have caused an issue.         

 

[Little_Flatty]

11 hours ago, Steve0 said:

In my experience, soft line is more prone to wind knots than stiff line. It just demands a bit more focus. Assuming the same brand/type, logically, fine braid would be softer than thick braid.

I go further than manual close, etc. I look at both spool and reel face before casting. Loops seen before casting are far easier to fix than wind knots. Their appearance might also help you focus on what you were doing on the last retrieve that may have caused an issue.         

 

Makes sense Steve. The worst experience has been with my thinnest braid. Brilliant casting distance - easily 20-30% more - but hellish wind knots.

I guess the other part of my problem is that 50% of my fishing is in the early morning darkness. I suspect a good proportion of my loose loops form then (and annoyingly the first sign is the ‘pflflflflt’ sound it makes as the line goes over it).

[Steve0]

5 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

 the first sign is the ‘pflflflflt’ sound it makes as the line goes over it.

Every fishos nightmare!

I had a rod with badly designed runners that combined poorly with a badly designed spool (not angled sufficiently where the line ran across the lip). It was narrower and deep than that, which led to rapidly decreasing line depth when cast.

Every time I gave it more than half strength, it made noises like line thrashing the rod before 'pfl bang'. My guess is friction slowed line on one side, while the rest continued at the same speed. The result tied itself to the lower runner. The runner had no design features to help prevent line wrap. Old rod, old reel. Loaded with El Cheapo braid it went back to soaking bait off rocks. My main reel was being overhauled at the time, so I used a Shimano Sienna loaded with braid until it came back (good reel at the price for bait but very rough compared to Saragosa). Using mono, when a fish hooked wide it was more like gradual awareness than feeling the hit. It also 'robbed' me of the jarring when Salmon went aerial, shaking their heads, but I probably dropped a smaller percentage for the short time. It's hard to say with any certainty. Apart from feel (and cast distance), nothing notable changed catching Tailor. 

 

 

 

Wind knots can teach you a lot.

[Mike Sydney]

What fascinates me about wind knots is how deep they can be in the spool.

I fish braid in strong winds often and have become a bit of a pro at untwisting them, but haven’t had much luck preventing them altogether. As with @Steve0 checking the reel by eye before cast can help - frequently you’ll see them over the drag - as can closing the bail arm immediately on/before the lure hits the water. 

A lot of the wind knots (we should call them wind ‘twists’ really) are so deep that the offending loop sometimes hasn’t even been cast that day and has only been used fighting previous fish or on sessions long gone.

Of course they always feel deeper in the spool when untwisting them as you don’t have the benefit of a high gear ratio when you’re unspooling by hand, but still some of them feel so deep I ponder if they’ve ever seen water. Makes me wonder if it was just a time bomb sitting there from the original spooling on of the line. 

[Steve0]

The way I see it calling all tangles 'wind knots' is misleading.  Some tangles are caused by mismatched rod/reel combination or unsuitable design; some may be caused by retrieve technique and/or very light lures may contribute; others are the result of twists caused by cranking the handle while the drag is slipping, which twists the line. There are probably other causes, but I'm not sure any are the direct result of fishing on a windy day.