observations

[Aussie_fisher]

So I have been fishing a while now and for quite a bit have been recording all my trips including the conditions I fish such as tides, time of day, weather etc: and my catches. Now I have only been fishing a year so only have a fraction of experience that most people on this forum have so it'd be really good if anyone wants to give some input on their observations as well or on whether your experience tallies with mine and get a bit of a discussion going.

The majority of my fishing is with plastics or bait around the parra and occasionally the harbour. When I fish plastics I just walk around random paths on the parra like bay run, hen and chicken bay, drummoyne etc: and when I fish with bait I usually go to a wharf or something. 

Summer: 

Run in tide: I almost exclusively fished from the half run in until 1 hour after high tide in summer in the parra with Sps. I can definitely say they bite hard during that time after which it slows down. In summer I fished the rising tide at various times of the day (though I avoided midday and very hot days) and usually I did get something. With bait at wharves I had a similar experience and most of my semi decent fish caught at wharves were on the run in.

Run out: I didn't fish the run out much on the parra so can't really comment on this. Not because its a bad time but mainly because my usual spots are just too shallow to properly fish on the low. However I used to like fishing the run out at the entrance in summer where flatties used to sit at drop offs.

Slack: I did observe that the bite definitely slowed down around this time. However my pb bream was at a dead low so I definitely think theres always a chance. Summer especially some days the fish are crazy and just bite throughout. So if you can get out get out even if you aren't able to catch the optimal tide

Time: In summer I caught fish at all times (provided it wasn't too hot or sunny) especially if I could get a rising tide. But dawn/dusk hands down were the best despite tide. I used to go to the entrance early morning and bag out on flatties. I haven't done much night fishing but have observed that they go crazy at dusk before becoming much more quiet at night especially with pickers. Alot of people fish almost exclusively at night though especially for like whiting, jewies etc so I think I probably just haven't fished at night properly to make any sort of conclusion yet

Winter:

a tide change during the day has occasionally produced though most of the time during the day its been donuts. However dusk on the other hand despite tide has produced most of my catches this winter even though those have also been quite limited. Haven't fished too much at dawn but I'm sure dawn would be similar

general:

I've observed that in some spots pickers like small bream, snapper etc: bite throughout the day. At some wharves especially or places like rushcutters there are 100s of tiny bream which non stop bite. Big fish on the other hand seem to be much more picky.

I've found overcast conditions better especially in summer if you're choosing to fish during the day. A lot of people look at solunar calendars which I've found to be absolute nonsense. They might have some truth but not enough to affect my fishing so far. There's also stuff about fishing the new moon, full moon etc: but not too sure about that either.

My fishing is very restricted mainly to just some common landbased spots around the parra and sometimes I head to the central coast or something hence my observations are heavily centred around that. I do think the tides, time and other conditions shouldn't dictate when you fish but rather where or how you fish. Someone who frequently fishes the flats would love an high while someone who fishing drop offs or gutters would love the low. someone might have the complete opposite experience to me as they do a different kind of fishing which is why I'm posting this to provide my insights which can hopefully help some people as well as get other insights too

[DerekD]

Hi @Aussie_fisher

I commend you on your diligence but the problem I see with the data you are getting is that you are just one data point. For the information to have real meaning you would probably need to have 1,000 to 10,000 people fishing the same way in a similar area over the full year to really be able to get sufficient data. This can also be dependent on the seasons. For the summers of 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 you almost had to work hard not to catch kingfish. We had schools in huge numbers.over those years and every bay in the harbour seemed to hold them at some point during the day. Then for the years after that the numbers of kings in the harbour seemed to drop off but then I hear the people fishing outside the heads were doing really well. Was it a reduced food source? Was it the water temperature? We will rarely have enough information to know exactly why things have changed.

Not to say stop what you are doing because you are really thinking about what you are doing which will pay off in the long run anyway but don't get your thinking too set in stone.

While I think about some of the details you are covering, in the end all I do is get out there and fish when I can. I look at the tides and wind to decide (most of the time) where it is most comfortable to fish. I look at fishing reports to see when certain species of fish are starting to show up.

Regards,

Derek

Edited August 19 by DerekD

[faker]

I fish of lower harbour and am pretty consistent. Winter i have just changed to full luderick and squid fishing mode. I can still find flathead if push comes to shove but effort is greater and i just chase perlagic off the rocks more consistently

[Aussie_fisher]

10 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi @Aussie_fisher

I commend you on your diligence but the problem I see with the data you are getting is that you are just one data point. For the information to have real meaning you would probably need to have 1,000 to 10,000 people fishing the same way in a similar area over the full year to really be able to get sufficient data. This can also be dependent on the seasons. For the summers of 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 you almost had to work hard not to catch kingfish. We had schools in huge numbers.over those years and every bay in the harbour seemed to hold them at some point during the day. Then for the years after that the numbers of kings in the harbour seemed to drop off but then I hear the people fishing outside the heads were doing really well. Was it a reduced food source? Was it the water temperature? We will rarely have enough information to know exactly why things have changed.

Not to say stop what you are doing because you are really thinking about what you are doing which will pay off in the long run anyway but don't get your thinking too set in stone.

While I think about some of the details you are covering, in the end all I do is get out there and fish when I can. I look at the tides and wind to decide (most of the time) where it is most comfortable to fish. I look at fishing reports to see when certain species of fish are starting to show up.

Regards,

Derek

Thanks for writing this. This is the kind of comment I was hoping to get. I agree with you - It’s not a black or white thing where fish this time or fish this tide and you’ll get them. So many factors at play which we can’t necessarily understand. These are just some of the observations I think I’ve made though I’ve only fished a few times so definitely not set in stone and still learning. Hence I posted this to hopefully get some other opinions as well on this 
 

yep definitely get out when you can. If you have a day free and you want to fish but don’t because it’s a bad tide you definitely wont get anything by not going. That said I do want to try roughly figure out their patterns so I can maximise chances which is what I’m trying to do but a few months of fishing definitely isn’t enough to be certain about anything 

[Aussie_fisher]

3 hours ago, faker said:

I fish of lower harbour and am pretty consistent. Winter i have just changed to full luderick and squid fishing mode. I can still find flathead if push comes to shove but effort is greater and i just chase perlagic off the rocks more consistently

I’ve been wanting to give luderick a go maybe next winter. I have still been getting some fish but the catch rates definitely been a lot lower than last summer for me especially with the flatties. 

[james Cutler]

I just go fishing. Win some you lose some. Some people take fishing very serious. I use it to relax & have a good time, especially trying out new gear. My favorite is beach fishing. I grew up near the beach. Can't beat it.

[frankS]

I am going to comment on just one point in your post and that is about solunar charts.

They were written by ancient Polynesians over hundreds and possibly thousands of years , their very existence relied on knowledge about hunting and fishing.

If you look at your own findings over a very very brief period in time you will see that much of what you have observed and the charts have more in common than you give credit to.

Keep fishing and keep learning.

I have been at it for over 65 years and I still learn new things every day.

Frank  

[Steve0]

There's more to fishing than what lure or bait you choose and recording states of tide. That doesn't mean keeping records is a waste of time. Maintaining a record helps you think about your fishing.

Fishing one location working out what bites there on different phases of the moon, state of tide, weather, etc, teaches you about one location, but doesn't contribute a lot to overall knowledge of whatever species you target. Add to what you are doing by observing what is going on around you.

Some examples of things that may help your thought processes:

• Water differences - colour changing; eddy changing; current changing angle; current stronger; weaker.
• On ocean rocks, what direction will food items go that are disturbed by breaking waves.  
• Looking at things in the water will help you read the water (examples: surface slick; floating of submerged debris; weed; small fish...).
• What are birds doing (gulls, cormorants, raptors, pelicans...).
• Are there other species actively hunting (dolphins, seals).
• You may see a flash of white beneath the water as a fish turns side on to eat something.
•  Most species are cold-blooded and metabolise differently in warm water and cold water.
• In the ocean, wave size makes a difference to what is being washed in and how turbulent conditions are.
• On beaches, storms create conditions that lead to the formation of sandbars and gutters once conditions settle again.
• In breeding season, mature fish move to preferred breeding locations (e.g. Mature Bream/Luderick move into estuaries {generally after winter, but the month varies along the NSW coast}). 
• Will your burley trail bring fish to you or somewhere else.
• Fresh water floats above salt water (you may taste-test fresh on the top, but the water is salty near the bottom).
• The water condition you see on the surface is not necessarily the same under the surface (brown on top from a storm does not mean zero visibility below).
• Current flow is not the same on the bottom as it is at the top.
• Fish live in a hostile environment. They need to find something to eat without being something to eat.

If there's one thing everyone should learn, it's the importance of structure.

 

 

[james Cutler]

The only record I keep is my black book. Everything goes in there. Places I have been. How many fish I have caught. The only pages that frighten is the amount of money I have spent on fishing gear. One day I will add it all up, No I won't because I will not buy anymore gear.

[Aussie_fisher]

6 hours ago, james Cutler said:

I just go fishing. Win some you lose some. Some people take fishing very serious. I use it to relax & have a good time, especially trying out new gear. My favorite is beach fishing. I grew up near the beach. Can't beat it.

Definitely. Being busy with school and all I just go whenever I can. Just a way for me to chill out and if I take some mates along even better. A catch is a bonus. I just try make a few observations as it’s interesting to see what the fish tend to do

5 hours ago, frankS said:

I am going to comment on just one point in your post and that is about solunar charts.

They were written by ancient Polynesians over hundreds and possibly thousands of years , their very existence relied on knowledge about hunting and fishing.

If you look at your own findings over a very very brief period in time you will see that much of what you have observed and the charts have more in common than you give credit to.

Keep fishing and keep learning.

I have been at it for over 65 years and I still learn new things every day.

Frank  

Ye I’ve heard that too. Definitely not right for me to say it’s nonsense I’m sure it does play an influence. But at the same time there’s so many other factors at play so it’s hard to tell. I’ve had excellent fishing days when the solunar chart said it would be terrible and vice versa 

3 hours ago, Steve0 said:

There's more to fishing than what lure or bait you choose and recording states of tide. That doesn't mean keeping records is a waste of time. Maintaining a record helps you think about your fishing.

Fishing one location working out what bites there on different phases of the moon, state of tide, weather, etc, teaches you about one location, but doesn't contribute a lot to overall knowledge of whatever species you target. Add to what you are doing by observing what is going on around you.

Some examples of things that may help your thought processes:

• Water differences - colour changing; eddy changing; current changing angle; current stronger; weaker.
• On ocean rocks, what direction will food items go that are disturbed by breaking waves.  
• Looking at things in the water will help you read the water (examples: surface slick; floating of submerged debris; weed; small fish...).
• What are birds doing (gulls, cormorants, raptors, pelicans...).
• Are there other species actively hunting (dolphins, seals).
• You may see a flash of white beneath the water as a fish turns side on to eat something.
•  Most species are cold-blooded and metabolise differently in warm water and cold water.
• In the ocean, wave size makes a difference to what is being washed in and how turbulent conditions are.
• On beaches, storms create conditions that lead to the formation of sandbars and gutters once conditions settle again.
• In breeding season, mature fish move to preferred breeding locations (e.g. Mature Bream/Luderick move into estuaries {generally after winter, but the month varies along the NSW coast}). 
• Will your burley trail bring fish to you or somewhere else.
• Fresh water floats above salt water (you may taste-test fresh on the top, but the water is salty near the bottom).
• The water condition you see on the surface is not necessarily the same under the surface (brown on top from a storm does not mean zero visibility below).
• Current flow is not the same on the bottom as it is at the top.
• Fish live in a hostile environment. They need to find something to eat without being something to eat.

If there's one thing everyone should learn, it's the importance of structure.

 

 

Theres so many things. The deeper you go and observe the more you find out. Based on how and where you’re fishing you will probably be looking at a variety of different things to best suit what you’re targeting. Yes structure definitely. I like to think of it like cities. Most people tend to concentrate around the cities, as do fish around structure - which can be in the form of a pier, drop off, weed bed etc: you won’t find many people in the middle of nowhere as you won’t find fish in the middle of any random area just because there’s water

52 minutes ago, james Cutler said:

The only record I keep is my black book. Everything goes in there. Places I have been. How many fish I have caught. The only pages that frighten is the amount of money I have spent on fishing gear. One day I will add it all up, No I won't because I will not buy anymore gear.

Haha ye it’s an expensive hobby. All you buy is a few hooks and plastics and then you realise you’ve spent a fortune 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve0]

I didn't mention, I keep a diary and consider it time well spent, but never read it. 

[mrsswordfisherman]

@Aussie_fisher we are all different. 
People with scientific minds will always attempt to explain things scientifically.

https://www.thefisherman.com/article/studies-in-success-the-science-of-fishing-catching/

 

 

[lhan]

@Aussie_fisher thanks for the efforts putting this altogether. I also love thinking about certain combinations of factors and summarising patterns behind bites. It's part of the fun about fishing for me and I guess it's the same for you. However at the end of the day any chance I could fish is already precious regardless of tides/time - you might notice many of my sessions are actually during the noon, when I could sneak 1 hour for some personal fun time.

Now what I do is trying to work out a spot better in different conditions. Morrison bay for example is generally considered as unfishable during low tide, but there're certain areas in the west part having deeper sections/dropoffs. Also you can access the bay a bit further via sand patches (mindful of the slippery rocks). However this area isn't very good during high tide. Cast along the rock wall or near the creek produced better from my experience. Tide plays an important factor too but I'll stop here to keep this comment short.

If you're interested, Nabu on youtube has some good contents summarise biting patterns/tide/time patterns for catching pelagic etc. on his youtube channel. He does shore jigging exclusively but I find it entertaining to watch even I don't do it as much as I would love to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKrWLOGbsO8 This one is a good example of different locations are good at different tides even it's all in Sydney harbour. Blues point (I named it since it's really well known) for him is good when it's slack tide because it's easier for jig to hit the bottom - makes sense and aligns with my personal experience too when I can fish 15g jig to mimic the small bait fish profile.

I really enjoy this kind of discussion even we all know fish is way more than this. But it's part of its greater fun for sure!

 

[Aussie_fisher]

Ye definitely. Fishings obviously a good way to just chill out whenever u can but still interesting to observe patterns. you do seem to catch some good fish at noon seeing your reports. It’s probably a better time than I give it credit for. 
 

I agree I think it really depends on the spot. when the tide is coming in the fish will position themselves a certain way or go to a certain location and same with when it’s outgoing, slack etc: That understanding probably just comes the more you fish a spot and realise how it works

Thanks for that will deifinitely check out some of his videos. Just watched that one it’s explained quite well and he pretty much says the same thing that it depends on what spot you fish. 
 

it’s definitely interesting to think about and the more you observe the more you learn. I still have a lot of observing to do 🤣