How fast is your boat?

[olpol]

Hi all,

Hoping to buy my first boat in December of this year to fish around sydney harbour and out at the fads/longreef. Will probably have around 10 grand to spend and only have two requirements. a) that it can get out to the fads and handle some chop, and b) that it will beat my mates boat in a race (he has an old savage with a 115 merc that does 40 knots). I know this is perhaps optimistic but I've seen some old deep vee haines on the market recently around my budget. Anyhow I was wondering what sort of boats anyone has for sydney harbour, how they handle chop, and their top speed. Any advice or help on boat buying would be greatly appreciated. 

Cheers

[frankS]

I think you have your priorities all mixed up. Sure you might get a boat that will go faster than 40 knots but very seldom can you do anywhere near that speed heading out to the fads.

Your first priority should be Safety features and 2nd should be reliability; these two factors will long outlast outright speed.

Sounds like you would go well on a get ski.

Good luck with your search.

Frank

 

[brapbrap]

37 minutes ago, frankS said:

I think you have your priorities all mixed up. Sure you might get a boat that will go faster than 40 knots but very seldom can you do anywhere near that speed heading out to the fads.

Your first priority should be Safety features and 2nd should be reliability; these two factors will long outlast outright speed.

Sounds like you would go well on a get ski.

Good luck with your search.

Frank

 

Such a true statement, 40 knots would be highly unlikley and why does it really matter?

A good solid and safe boat should be the priority so you can enjoy the days fishing.

[Derny Driver]

I wouldn't be going to the Fads on a 10 grand boat ...

[rickmarlin62]

Most days at sea  you can realistically travel at 18 to 20 knots  some days are flat  and you can travel faster   most hulls that have high speeds dont handle well and dont sit well at rest   google deadrise  on hulls  a comfortable boat is better than a rocket that pounds the crap out of you 

[noelm]

Going fast is not a huge requirement, it’s more or less just related to motor HP, but, bigger motor, going faster might be great to beat your mates in a river, but out in the ocean, most boats are limited by safety. Most days at the Fad it doesn’t matter how fast your boat is, there is always someone already there.

[BaitDropper]

Agree with all the above comments..

If your pondering on what speed the boat is capable of, in order to " beat a mates boat in a race  " probably better you consider staying and fishing land based, a boat is not for you.

A boats top end speed is the absolute last thing to consider in the whole gamete of boat purchasing, or indeed boat ownership or fishing.

I couldn't actually tell you how fast or the top end my rig is with the recent new four stroke I fitted up and don't really care, boating, first and foremost, is all about safety, ride and comfort and doing so to the conditions that are in front of you.

Good luck with your venture.

 

[jeffb5.8]

just to add, if its fast it isn't going to be fuel efficient, so you will need a big fuel tank to get out to the fad and back.

Priorities should be

1. Best Hull condition

2. Newest Outboard with service records

3. Good safety gear and electrics

4. Comfort and Practicality

5. Towing ability

6. Use 90% of time

[JonD]

Ok, I was often sent top the naughty corner as kid, so here's my take on it🫢

I fully get where you are coming from and to me its not just a day out on the water in the hunt for fish, its the fun getting there and back that ticks way more boxes for me. This means getting there and back quick, often racing my buddies along the way who all have more hp than me but seldom win the race!!!!!

In your budget I would recommend looking at the older Haines 4.45 (146 ). A 115hp on these will get you to 40kts and above but also provide a decent ride when the rpm and speed are brought back down to non airborne speeds. The tweaking will come down to engine mounting heights and prop selection to getting the best speed from these, all things you can tweak and improve with time and more money. These little boats are Economical to run even running flat out. A Haines 16 or 17 are very capable at speed but will be a bit less stable at rest and cost more to power (put fuel in).

Like others have mentioned, those days where conditions allow you to run flat out are few and far between, which is why Ive propped mine with a mercury 4 blade which greatly helps running at speed in rougher conditions. 

If you haven't seen the Captain's nub tub on YouTube or the Johnsons brothers little 445 the captain also did videos on, have a look at those to give you an idea how these little boats perform. 

Im almost 60 and love having a full hold on race, also work on commercial abalone boats where it seems most skippers in that industry also love the race aspect of their boats. We get around 90kh from a 6m Edencraft but the quickest Ive been in was one of the Cootracraft boats which we were hitting 140kh which is next level!!!!!!

Also getting as many hours in all kinds of sea conditions before you go to crazy is extremely important.

 

Edited September 4 by JonD

[Blackfish]

It makes sense now Jon why you like driving the Abb boats. 😀

[juicy233]

1 hour ago, JonD said:

Ok, I was often sent top the naughty corner as kid, so here's my take on it🫢

I fully get where you are coming from and to me its not just a day out on the water in the hunt for fish, its the fun getting there and back that ticks way more boxes for me. This means getting there and back quick, often racing my buddies along the way who all have more hp than me but seldom win the race!!!!!

In your budget I would recommend looking at the older Haines 4.45 (146 ). A 115hp on these will get you to 40kts and above but also provide a decent ride when the rpm and speed are brought back down to non airborne speeds. The tweaking will come down to engine mounting heights and prop selection to getting the best speed from these, all things you can tweak and improve with time and more money. These little boats are Economical to run even running flat out. A Haines 16 or 17 are very capable at speed but will be a bit less stable at rest and cost more to power (put fuel in).

Like others have mentioned, those days where conditions allow you to run flat out are few and far between, which is why Ive propped mine with a mercury 4 blade which greatly helps running at speed in rougher conditions. 

If you haven't seen the Captain's nub tub on YouTube or the Johnsons brothers little 445 the captain also did videos on, have a look at those to give you an idea how these little boats perform. 

Im almost 60 and love having a full hold on race, also work on commercial abalone boats where it seems most skippers in that industry also love the race aspect of their boats. We get around 90kh from a 6m Edencraft but the quickest Ive been in was one of the Cootracraft boats which we were hitting 140kh which is next level!!!!!!

Also getting as many hours in all kinds of sea conditions before you go to crazy is extremely important.

 

I'm friends with @olpol, you and him would get along very very well

[olpol]

20 hours ago, frankS said:

I think you have your priorities all mixed up. Sure you might get a boat that will go faster than 40 knots but very seldom can you do anywhere near that speed heading out to the fads.

Your first priority should be Safety features and 2nd should be reliability; these two factors will long outlast outright speed.

Sounds like you would go well on a get ski.

Good luck with your search.

Frank

 

Thanks Frank,

Refreshing to hear a voice of calm and reason when all my mates are anything but! Have you had much experience rebuilding transoms - i.e at home with some mates? Looking into buying an old hull cheap and doing it up with a later four stroke. 

Cheers

 

[olpol]

1 hour ago, JonD said:

Ok, I was often sent top the naughty corner as kid, so here's my take on it🫢

I fully get where you are coming from and to me its not just a day out on the water in the hunt for fish, its the fun getting there and back that ticks way more boxes for me. This means getting there and back quick, often racing my buddies along the way who all have more hp than me but seldom win the race!!!!!

In your budget I would recommend looking at the older Haines 4.45 (146 ). A 115hp on these will get you to 40kts and above but also provide a decent ride when the rpm and speed are brought back down to non airborne speeds. The tweaking will come down to engine mounting heights and prop selection to getting the best speed from these, all things you can tweak and improve with time and more money. These little boats are Economical to run even running flat out. A Haines 16 or 17 are very capable at speed but will be a bit less stable at rest and cost more to power (put fuel in).

Like others have mentioned, those days where conditions allow you to run flat out are few and far between, which is why Ive propped mine with a mercury 4 blade which greatly helps running at speed in rougher conditions. 

If you haven't seen the Captain's nub tub on YouTube or the Johnsons brothers little 445 the captain also did videos on, have a look at those to give you an idea how these little boats perform. 

Im almost 60 and love having a full hold on race, also work on commercial abalone boats where it seems most skippers in that industry also love the race aspect of their boats. We get around 90kh from a 6m Edencraft but the quickest Ive been in was one of the Cootracraft boats which we were hitting 140kh which is next level!!!!!!

Also getting as many hours in all kinds of sea conditions before you go to crazy is extremely important.

 

Thanks Jon

I've had some experience through with old glass boats and they seem to be a great all rounder. Any advice on how to check for rot in a transom/floor/stringers would be greatly appreciated. I Would be keen to know how you got into the ab industry and a bit of info on your Edencraft - sounds like an absolute weapon!

 

 

 

[olpol]

4 hours ago, jeffb5.8 said:

just to add, if its fast it isn't going to be fuel efficient, so you will need a big fuel tank to get out to the fad and back.

Priorities should be

1. Best Hull condition

2. Newest Outboard with service records

3. Good safety gear and electrics

4. Comfort and Practicality

5. Towing ability

6. Use 90% of time

Thanks Jeff,

Did you have any advice on older 2 strokes? Some seem better than others - should I steer clear of the old VRO Johnson and evinrudes or go for the early 2000s Mercs and Yamaha's.

 

Cheers 

[JonD]

2 minutes ago, olpol said:

Thanks Frank,

Refreshing to hear a voice of calm and reason when all my mates are anything but! Have you had much experience rebuilding transoms - i.e at home with some mates? Looking into buying an old hull cheap and doing it up with a later four stroke. 

Cheers

 

Being underpowered can also be dangerous especially if you regularly head out through bar crossings. Power and grip to move when you need to move, with what ever load you have onboard. 

Not all old boats need a rebuild, Ive seen some very tidy good oldies. My neighbour recently sold a pristine Haines 16 for $6000 which I regret not buying simply to sell on. Many of the old 16 Haines had yam 115 two strokes which are still highly regarded by many people. I would rather an old two stroke over an old 4 stroke as repairs to 4 strokes can be very expensive. Yes 4 strokes are great when new and well maintained but buying an old one wouldn't be something I recommend and if you do price one up, make sure to add the controls, gauges and prop, which is a 3-5k price tag dealers don't include. 

[JonD]

14 minutes ago, olpol said:

Thanks Jon

I've had some experience through with old glass boats and they seem to be a great all rounder. Any advice on how to check for rot in a transom/floor/stringers would be greatly appreciated. I Would be keen to know how you got into the ab industry and a bit of info on your Edencraft - sounds like an absolute weapon!

 

 

 

It's not my Edencraft just one I skipper with two divers who work on hooka for abbs. It will most likely be my last season as my back keeps playing up to much and I get to many headaches from a broken neck many years ago now.

I did a couple of years boatbuilding and fibreglassing at tafe over 40 years ago but decided against making a career from it, basically it would of been factory work with itchy smelly materials all day, which doesn't compare with sea spray in your face. Not that Ive been working at sea all that time, I was bricklaying for many years but also working on trawlers and crab boats etc when I got any chance.

Ive been fishing on boats since the age of 4yrs when my parents first started boating. When I wasn't on our boat I was on other peoples boats, which developed into deckhand work and buying my own boat when I was 11yr. Ive chopped and changed boats many times and get to go out on all sorts of boats. When I first joined on here, in one year I clocked 995hrs on my Zodiac while also working on dive boats and fishing on friends boats.  If you are looking for work in the industry you will need to gain your coxswains which there were three levels of when I did mine. My daughter skippers charter boats and went on to do her masters in order to take larger boats further offshore.

There are lots of websites and YouTube videos helping identify rotten transoms. Often the first sign is the outboard mounting bolts on the inside of the boat will often pull in looking like the nut and washer have sunken into the fibreglass. Something as simply as transducer fittings can let water in which over time can do damage. https://boatbuy.com.au/wet-transom-truths/ this link may help a bit but there are plenty of similar sites and videos. Even the captains nub tub was far worse than Jack first thought, so even experienced boaters get caught out too. 

[frankS]

52 minutes ago, olpol said:

Thanks Frank,

Refreshing to hear a voice of calm and reason when all my mates are anything but! Have you had much experience rebuilding transoms - i.e at home with some mates? Looking into buying an old hull cheap and doing it up with a later four stroke. 

Cheers

 

Hi I am glad you didn't take my advice as an insult . Speed from a boat can be great fun but it is not as important as safety. And to gain the upper hand in a boat race is not so much the speed of the boat but the experience of the person driving the boat and how it's balanced for the conditions. Just don't try and beat your mate until you gain heaps of experience.

To answer your question about rebuilding transoms, Only ever fully done one boat A 17' glass half cab and I had the help and supervision from a professional fibreglass boat builder and it turned out great but not something I have ever wanted to do again. I mainly just enjoy fitting out boats of all types as a hobby. I might add sometimes an expensive hobby. In the past I have had up to 5 boats at once of all different sizes. I bought my first boat when I was 14 years old and tried to make a list of all the boats I have owned . I am now 77 years old and the list was long but I keep remembering different boats that was not on my list that I had forgotten I owned.

Frank

[riveRecon]

My two cents, I agree with all the safety comments here. One of the safety considerations I had for higher end speed was running with big seas safely if needed. That means avoiding broaching, which means being able to stay on the back of waves as much as possible. I roughly calculated that in my area the highest swell speed I MIGHT be out in would be 15 seconds - quite a powerful swell and didn’t want one breaking into the back of the boat, especially when entering back through the bar crossing. So I chose my boat to be able to reach above 30knts, I only get to that if needed and usually travel most places at about 20 knots cruise. I hope that helps.

[Gregdagoat]

20 hours ago, JonD said:

Being underpowered can also be dangerous especially if you regularly head out through bar crossings. Power and grip to move when you need to move, with what ever load you have onboard. 

Not all old boats need a rebuild, Ive seen some very tidy good oldies. My neighbour recently sold a pristine Haines 16 for $6000 which I regret not buying simply to sell on. Many of the old 16 Haines had yam 115 two strokes which are still highly regarded by many people. I would rather an old two stroke over an old 4 stroke as repairs to 4 strokes can be very expensive. Yes 4 strokes are great when new and well maintained but buying an old one wouldn't be something I recommend and if you do price one up, make sure to add the controls, gauges and prop, which is a 3-5k price tag dealers don't include. 

Hey Jon, This is my mate and I don't believe he is ever going through a bar crossing especially in the next few years as he cannot tow a boat anywhere. Secondly there are not many bar crossings that are accessible to him, let alone having the permission to try such a feat.

Edited September 5 by Gregdagoat

[Gregdagoat]

20 hours ago, olpol said:

Thanks Jon

I've had some experience through with old glass boats and they seem to be a great all rounder. Any advice on how to check for rot in a transom/floor/stringers would be greatly appreciated. I Would be keen to know how you got into the ab industry and a bit of info on your Edencraft - sounds like an absolute weapon!

 

 

 

Hey olpol, can you please tell me about your experience with glass boats or any boats for that matter as i have not heard these stories in the many years i have known you

Thanks

[JonD]

24 minutes ago, Gregdagoat said:

Hey olpol, can you please tell me about your experience with glass boats or any boats for that matter as i have not heard these stories in the many years i have known you

Thanks

I must admit I was kind of expecting a hardcore young spearo sort of group of lads when I saw Haines and racing, not a first boat owner. In regards to bar crossings, even Sydney and Botany heads can often be pretty ugly to come back through after a day at the fads. Personally I would rather head out through our bar than dodge the bullet travelling through Sydney harbour. You have those who know what they are doing, those that don't and a whole lot of vessels that have priority over their headings and a washing machine of chop from how I remember it!!!!!!

[olpol]

1 hour ago, Gregdagoat said:

Hey Jon, This is my mate and I don't believe he is ever going through a bar crossing especially in the next few years as he cannot tow a boat anywhere. Secondly there are not many bar crossings that are accessible to him, let alone having the permission to try such a feat.

To clear up a couple of things:

- This is my mate, who I will refer to as Greg. He is the one with the old savage who I'm trying to beat. I've been on his boat numerous times and hence this is where my little experience comes from, particularly one time where we opened the cover to the bilge and it was full of water due to a sheet of fibreglass ripping off the front of the boat (someone's questionable driving).

- I've never been spearfishing as I've only just gotten into fishing recently through some good friends who have had the benefit of parents who are really into it growing up. But I am really into line fishing and go out with my friends most weekends.

- In my case the boat I'm going to get isn't purely going to be used for fishing. It'd probably be 70% fishing and 30% family/tubing/skiing, so I need a good balance.

- I got to these forums through a mate (Juicy233) who is pretty active on here. I'm just looking for any advice I can get as my knowledge of boats and boating is pretty limited to a select few boats aside from some youtube videos and distant family members.

Any advice would be great and I'm also happy to tell the story of how I almost got a boat a few years ago if anyone's interested.

 

Cheers

[Gregdagoat]

56 minutes ago, olpol said:

To clear up a couple of things:

- This is my mate, who I will refer to as Greg. He is the one with the old savage who I'm trying to beat. I've been on his boat numerous times and hence this is where my little experience comes from, particularly one time where we opened the cover to the bilge and it was full of water due to a sheet of fibreglass ripping off the front of the boat (someone's questionable driving).

- I've never been spearfishing as I've only just gotten into fishing recently through some good friends who have had the benefit of parents who are really into it growing up. But I am really into line fishing and go out with my friends most weekends.

- In my case the boat I'm going to get isn't purely going to be used for fishing. It'd probably be 70% fishing and 30% family/tubing/skiing, so I need a good balance.

- I got to these forums through a mate (Juicy233) who is pretty active on here. I'm just looking for any advice I can get as my knowledge of boats and boating is pretty limited to a select few boats aside from some youtube videos and distant family members.

Any advice would be great and I'm also happy to tell the story of how I almost got a boat a few years ago if anyone's interested.

 

Cheers

Who?

[whiskey299]

My boat's top speed is 4.7 knots at full throttle, if I pedal as well I might get to about 4.8 maybe 4.9 knots. 

Handles small chop and swell ok but not that great in the wind. Mind you Hobie outback's aren't really designed for speed 😂