Distance casting rig snapping

[faker]

Hi all,

Recently I have been working on distance casting for snapper and although I design the rig to have snap off points. I am still losing whole rig when snagging

Set up is braid mainline pe 3 into fg 60lb nylon line, a swivel threaded on but not tied,  bead , 60lb line tide to swivel followed by 40lb leader and hook

The side swivel has a 25lb line into sinker on it to allow snap off 

 

Its exactly like this rig

 

I believe sinker snags and assert alot of pressure onto 60lb knot via the bead 

 

 

Edited November 11 by faker

[slowjigger]

You shouldn't be getting snagged at all if you are fishing the right spot and casting far enough. The idea is to get to the sand or gravel out past the reef. 

[faker]

Just now, slowjigger said:

You shouldn't be getting snagged at all if you are fishing the right spot and casting far enough. The idea is to get to the sand or gravel out past the reef. 

It inevitably happens with one botch cast and winding 

[slowjigger]

16 minutes ago, faker said:

It inevitably happens with one botch cast and winding 

OK - probably the hook snagging rather than the sinker. Why not try a simple paternoster rig? The hook will be up higher. I never had any problems with snagging when I fished for snapper off the rocks (and it was reefy in closer). As to dud casts why not wind in immediately and try again? Should be able to minimise them in any case with practise. I didn't have a problem as I recall and I was using overhead gear and often a strong NE wind to contend with. 

[noelm]

I tried to visualise your rig, seems like a lot of bits and pieces for a simple fish?

[faker]

2 hours ago, noelm said:

I tried to visualise your rig, seems like a lot of bits and pieces for a simple fish?

Well it's just one that roger Osborne was using and similar to not allowed rule 6.

[noelm]

What do you mean by “not allowed rule 6?” A very simple paternoster rig works a treat for Snapper off the rocks, or a running sinker, depending on how far you are casting. Your rig has swivels,  various line sizes, a sinker and your main line. 

[faker]

3 minutes ago, noelm said:

What do you mean by “not allowed rule 6?” A very simple paternoster rig works a treat for Snapper off the rocks, or a running sinker, depending on how far you are casting. Your rig has swivels,  various line sizes, a sinker and your main line. 

It's rule 6 was because i mentioned a below person. 

my rig was pretty much a modified running snapper sinker with break off points

 

[slowjigger]

What sized sinker are you using? Also how far are you casting?

[rickmarlin62]

I had trouble when using braid to swivel  they get csught round each other and braid snaps   i beat it by using 10ft of nylon at front  no more tangles or snap offs

[faker]

53 minutes ago, slowjigger said:

What sized sinker are you using? Also how far are you casting?

5 oz about 70.to.90 m

[sashkello]

Very likely it's just the area you're fishing - you can't really do much when the bottom is dotted with reefs & oysters.

Is your side-line onto sinker longer than the line to the hook? It might be that your hook sits on the bottom and that causes the snags. That piece of line should be considerably shorter than the sinker detour. I also don't see a point of a leader from braid to swivel, especially for such a heavy braid. It won't wear off from simple running swivel... And if FG knot isn't well done, it will be the first thing to snap. 

AFAIK, this rig is mostly used for livies to allow them to move freely around. I agree with the above - just use a simple 1-loop paternoster rig. In order to avoid snags, use a light snap or snap-swivel which will break off if the sinker gets snagged. And keep your hook well above the sinker. 

Finally, are you keeping your line tight? Because if it's slack, then of course the whole contraption is going to get tangled at the bottom. 

[slowjigger]

Braid is very visible - also not very abrasion resistant. A mono leader makes sense. PS: loop knots aren't very strong, plus you double the line thickness which might put fish off. I'd use a brass ring - with the hook line shorter than the sinker line like you mentioned.  

[faker]

8 hours ago, sashkello said:

Very likely it's just the area you're fishing - you can't really do much when the bottom is dotted with reefs & oysters.

Is your side-line onto sinker longer than the line to the hook? It might be that your hook sits on the bottom and that causes the snags. That piece of line should be considerably shorter than the sinker detour. I also don't see a point of a leader from braid to swivel, especially for such a heavy braid. It won't wear off from simple running swivel... And if FG knot isn't well done, it will be the first thing to snap. 

AFAIK, this rig is mostly used for livies to allow them to move freely around. I agree with the above - just use a simple 1-loop paternoster rig. In order to avoid snags, use a light snap or snap-swivel which will break off if the sinker gets snagged. And keep your hook well above the sinker. 

Finally, are you keeping your line tight? Because if it's slack, then of course the whole contraption is going to get tangled at the bottom. 

The fg into 60lb did not snap. It was the knot to 40 and 25lb nylon line that snapped

[Yowie]

13 hours ago, faker said:

The fg into 60lb did not snap. It was the knot to 40 and 25lb nylon line that snapped

I use a strong swivel for attaching braid and mono - NO knots - to reduce knots snapping or coming undone.

[Steve0]

14 hours ago, faker said:

The fg into 60lb did not snap. It was the knot to 40 and 25lb nylon line that snapped

Same brand/model of line? Misleading breaking strain on one or both or deterioration of the 40lb line or a combination is a possibility.

That snap that follows your thumb touching the bail arm during casting has to be one of the worst sounds of fishing. I presume you have a process involving positioning the bail arm in a position where your thumb cannot touch it during casting?

[sashkello]

16 hours ago, slowjigger said:

Braid is very visible - also not very abrasion resistant. A mono leader makes sense. PS: loop knots aren't very strong, plus you double the line thickness which might put fish off. I'd use a brass ring - with the hook line shorter than the sinker line like you mentioned.  

Fish will not care about braid line at all, especially if there is a whole contraption of two swivels with knots right next to it. When bait fishing, leader for the purposes of invisibility is not essential; fish will eat the bait off pretty much anything, and some braid half a meter away will not spook it. Same goes for doubled line. Only if it spooked fish - I catch all kinds of pickers smaller than my hand on doubled 40lb, they don't care. As long as the bait is attractive they'll take it. Not applicable for all fish, but your typical targets off the rocks will take it.

Good point about abrasion though, off the rocks it might make sense. 

[faker]

4 hours ago, Steve0 said:

Same brand/model of line? Misleading breaking strain on one or both or deterioration of the 40lb line or a combination is a possibility.

That snap that follows your thumb touching the bail arm during casting has to be one of the worst sounds of fishing. I presume you have a process involving positioning the bail arm in a position where your thumb cannot touch it during casting?

It was during casting it was from snag that it broke at 60lb

[slowjigger]

7 hours ago, sashkello said:

Fish will not care about braid line at all, especially if there is a whole contraption of two swivels with knots right next to it. When bait fishing, leader for the purposes of invisibility is not essential; fish will eat the bait off pretty much anything, and some braid half a meter away will not spook it. Same goes for doubled line. Only if it spooked fish - I catch all kinds of pickers smaller than my hand on doubled 40lb, they don't care. As long as the bait is attractive they'll take it. Not applicable for all fish, but your typical targets off the rocks will take it.

Good point about abrasion though, off the rocks it might make sense. 

Though pickers aren't educated. A decent snapper is quite old and there is plenty of evidence that fish can wise up to fishing techniques. Also I was thinking about a 12 - 15 cm dropper with a patternoster - also fixed so no need for 2 swivels. 

[Steve0]

3 hours ago, faker said:

It was during casting it was from snag that it broke at 60lb

I'm confused. Above, you said, "It was the knot to 40 and 25lb nylon line that snapped" and that you wanted a break at whatever the 25lb has attached. 

[slowjigger]

7 minutes ago, Steve0 said:

I'm confused. Above, you said, "It was the knot to 40 and 25lb nylon line that snapped" and that you wanted a break at whatever the 25lb has attached. 

Yes and the rig is not at all clear in the video he put up. 

[faker]

42 minutes ago, Steve0 said:

I'm confused. Above, you said, "It was the knot to 40 and 25lb nylon line that snapped" and that you wanted a break at whatever the 25lb has attached. 

 

1. Mainline pe3

2.fg nylon 60lb 

3. Swivel that run along the 60lb line.this has a 25lb nylon line with snapper sinker. Think of it like a easy rig snap on substitute 

4.bead that protects 60lb nylon that is tide to another swivel

5.leader with 40lb line

When I got snagged I only got back 60lb line and lost everything else 

 

Edited November 13 by faker

[slowjigger]

9 minutes ago, faker said:

 

1. Mainline pe3

2.fg nylon 60lb 

3. Swivel that run along the 60lb line.this has a 25lb nylon line with snapper sinker. Think of it like a easy rig snap on substitute 

4.bead that protects 60lb nylon that is tide to another swivel

5.leader with 40lb line

When I got snagged I only got back 60lb line and lost everything else 

 

Seems rather odd that the strongest link is breaking. As has been suggested the only solution is to avoid snaggy areas. You want to be casting on to the sand or gravel areas. 

[sashkello]

14 minutes ago, faker said:

3. Swivel that run along the 60lb line.this has a 25lb nylon line with snapper sinker. Think of it like a easy rig snap on substitute 

You're casting snapper sinker off the rocks? What is the weight? It's supposed to be used off the boat to get dropped >>10m deep, not really for rocks casting. Usually they are very heavy. If so, no surprise you get snagged - you would have to reel in very fast to get it back over the reefs. It probably holds your line so low when you reel back that it gets caught on reefs at swivel point. Also no surprise your line gets destroyed with such a weight being cast over and over... 

Edited November 13 by sashkello

[Steve0]

13 minutes ago, faker said:

 

1. Mainline pe3

2.fg nylon 60lb 

3. Swivel that run along the 60lb line.this has a 25lb nylon line with snapper sinker. Think of it like a easy rig snap on substitute 

4.bead that protects 60lb nylon that is tide to another swivel

5.leader with 40lb line

When I got snagged I only got back 60lb line and lost everything else 

 

Sounds to me like the swivel is cutting through. Much the same as this (but I don't know how to get around it, while retaining a free running swivel):