A word of warning to all

[Luringbream]

Hey all,

An elderly friend of mine, aged 76, and his mate, had all their handlines taken away from them at the boatramp last weekend by fisheries as they were in possession of more than four lines each. They had no undersize fish, and had all their licences/safety gear. They may have had 12-15 between the two of them, and because of this, they had their lines confiscated and asked to only choose two each to keep. The lines were not all the same, some had squid jigs on them, some with larger trevally hooks, some with a metal blade tailor lure and some with smaller whiting hooks. Their intentions were always to switch and swap as they targeted various species, ie. squid, tailor, whiting, trevally etc.

This to me is a poor act on the fisheries part, at worst give them a warning or a small fine, but don't take their gear! It is clear that all 12-15 lines were not in use at any one time, nor could it be possible, but the legislation does state that anglers are permitted to be in possession of a maximum of 4 lines per person. I always knew that you could only use four lines at any one time, but i was never aware of the possession limit of four. A similar occurence happened at another waterway on the same day, where one of my mates was approached and fined for having more than four lines. I have been checked by fisheries over 20 times in the last few years, and i've always had in my possession more than 4 lines. Never have they pulled me up on this. The majority probably have more than four rods in their possession as it is the most effective way to target a range of species in one day. Look at tournament anglers for example, they can carry up to 20 outfits per tournament.

So this means, for many of us offshore anglers, if fishing in two, we are permitted 8 rods/lines. Perhaps 5 game rods for a spread, 2 jigging rods and a popper rod = 8. I also like to bring with me two squid outfits and two small spinning outfits for bonnies and macks. And i always have done this, so if i was ever to be found in the past, they would have collected thousands of dollars worth of game gear because i had a few extra rods?

This also means that if you plan a week long trip to port stephens and plan to target snapper one day, marlin another, kings and squid another, and flatties another, that the maximum rods you can have in your possession is four rods each. You don't even have to be fishing, according to the legislation if they catch you with more than four rods each on the highway or anywhere, they are in your possession and you will be pinned. So if travelling in three, your 12 rods must cover all of the fishing you intend to do above.

This also means you can be pinnned taking 6 rods to the tackle store for having more than the permitted amount in your possession. Unlikely it seems, but after last weeks episodes, perhaps not.

This rule should be abolished. Sure its easy for us younger guys to tie knots on the water and quickly swap and change, but what about the older guys, they have enough trouble tieing knots on at home, let alone on the water on a cold winters days. Visibility and coordination can become a real issue for these guys. And the fisheries should use some common sense. It's mere impossible to use more than four lines per person. If i have 10 rods in my possession (a mixture of game, jig and spin), i'm not going to use them all at the same time!

What are your thoughts..

Edited April 10, 2012 by Luringbream

[boattart]

Funny you mention this rule as it was only on the weekend I was reading the Saltwater fishing rules looking for something else and came across it. Like you I knew the 4 line rule but on reading the rule I commented to my wife how many times many boats could be stung. You mention Port Stephens for example. We took 5 chair rods, 4 stand up and to spinning outfits. We also have a bag of handlines with maybe 20metres of line to catch livies with that lives in a cupboard on the boat. Now at night at the marina there would only be one person sleeping on the boat. Does that mean he's over and they can confiscate his gear? I'm sure most boats and every charter boat on the marina would be in the same situation.

I understand the reasons for the rule but there must be some commonsense brought in when wording these laws and it should be that an intended law isn't misused to penalise otherwise innocent people.

[cameldownunder]

If I buy a second license, would I be allowed to carry double the rods. After all I have a bit of a split personality

I also asked the fisheries if they had a boat license, so I don't have to worry if my friends have a fishing license or not. Of course this is to difficult for them to get around, so "NO" was the answer.

Any one interested/capable of drafting a request for boat fishing license?

[GORRRN]

Pretty pathetic if you ask me, but i guess its the same as cops. It all depends on who catches you, what mood they are in, if they have met there quota yet and how you speak to them.

Im not saying these old fellas would have been rude or nasty etc to warrant the lines being taken. But get a fisheries officer after he has had a fight with his missus etc and chances are he will be a dick to deal with. Its sad and it shouldn't even come into the equation but it does. Some serious common sense needs to be used when enforcing these laws.

Was a while ago but i heard about a couple of guys that gone done for going through a marine park area with rods rigged up. They where crossing the marine park to get to another fishing spot and where going flat out, they got pulled up and booked because there rods where rigged up (shows intention to fish) so basically they would have had to un rig everything to cross the park then re rig on the other side. Its absolutely pathetic and just shows how out of touch the authorities are.

[bump73]

The amount of rods only counts if they are rigged up, so you can have 4 rods rigged and ready to go and also have as many others as long as they aren't rigged up with hooks, lures etc.

Perfectly reasonably law as far as i'm concerned especially if it stops people having more than 4 rods in use at any one time.

Ben

[Plumb]

I'm the same ill take at least 9 rods out if fishing with a mate, not to mention the countless hand lines stowed away. I think the inspector must have been having a a few issues outside of work on the day...

Can the hear be returned? Or is it gone without a right of reply?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boattart]

Well I'll add another question following Bump73's reply. You say if they are rigged with hooks but what if they are rigged with snap swivels ready to clip on a trace for gamefishing. Is that rigged or is it not rigged till a hook is attached.

[user1829]

You don't even have to be fishing, according to the legislation if they catch you with more than four rods each on the highway or anywhere, they are in your possession and you will be pinned. So if travelling in three, your 12 rods must cover all of the fishing you intend to do above.

This also means you can be pinnned taking 6 rods to the tackle store for having more than the permitted amount in your possession. Unlikely it seems, but after last weeks episodes, perhaps not.

this concerned me greatly - so I just called fisheries, and the guy said unless it is rigged and ready to fish, it is not really considered as part of the possession count - only rigged gear is counted...

he said you could have your pelagic gear, your SP gear and your handlines all on board, as long as only 4 were rigged, you are OK...

he said commonsense prevailed...

EDIT: beaten by bump73

This rule should be abolished. Sure its easy for us younger guys to tie knots on the water and quickly swap and change, but what about the older guys, they have enough trouble tieing knots on at home, let alone on the water on a cold winters days. Visibility and coordination can become a real issue for these guys. And the fisheries should use some common sense. It's mere impossible to use more than four lines per person. If i have 10 rods in my possession (a mixture of game, jig and spin), i'm not going to use them all at the same time!

What are your thoughts..

yeah, sounds like your mates got done by a grumpy officer?

Edited April 10, 2012 by user1829

[user1829]

Was a while ago but i heard about a couple of guys that gone done for going through a marine park area with rods rigged up. They where crossing the marine park to get to another fishing spot and where going flat out, they got pulled up and booked because there rods where rigged up (shows intention to fish) so basically they would have had to un rig everything to cross the park then re rig on the other side. Its absolutely pathetic and just shows how out of touch the authorities are.

that is weird, I just looked that stuff up, and found this:

Defences for possession of fishing equipment in marine park sanctuary zones

Transiting a sanctuary zone

Fishers may transit through any sanctuary zone (i.e. travelling from one place where the fishing gear can be legally used to another place the gear can be legally used) with:

• Fishing rod ‘fully rigged’, provided no part of the line is immersed in the water and no hook is baited;

so yeah, the fisheries guys musta got that one wrong?

or the 'story' got changed?

[BreamChaser]

One word... RIDICULOUS!

Whether the laws are fishing laws, boat laws, driving laws etc etc laws are put in place to protect people and environments in this case.

Fishieries and police do a great job 99.9% of the time but this is a case of some numbnut who is p*ssy whipped at home and its his only chance to have any authority in life.Its a bit like the cop who pulls the driver over and fines him for doing 53 in a 50 zone!

The poor old blokes with a few extra handlines are hardley the ones causing problems to the environment or others.

Some people need to pull their heads in!

[abecedarian]

My understanding is that it doesn't matter how many lines/rods you have you can only have a maximum 4 in the salt and 2 in the fresh rigged up (ie. With hooks or lure) at any one time. The guys caught out had several rigged lines in possession abut if the lines had no hooks on them then they should've been fine. So boats with several outfits targeting several species should be covered, they just can't have more than 4 rigged up at a time.

This is just my understanding from reading the rules some time ago and it may be wrong. The thing I don't like about the whole confiscation issue is that it's not an equal and just punishment. Say one chap has five game outfits all rigged up and gets caught. He could be up for a fine and maybe $2000 of confiscated gear. Now, another chap setting 5 lines with hand reels gets caught, he looses 1 hand reel and gets the same fine. So he's lost about $5 worth of gear give or take with a fine, the total punishment being much less than the guy with the extra game rod despite committing the same offense. I don't think they should have the right to confiscate gear at all, they should only be able to give fines. That way it's fair and even for everyone!

[Luringbream]

The amount of rods only counts if they are rigged up, so you can have 4 rods rigged and ready to go and also have as many others as long as they aren't rigged up with hooks, lures etc.

Perfectly reasonably law as far as i'm concerned especially if it stops people having more than 4 rods in use at any one time.

Ben

The legislation clearly states that you are to have no more than four lines in your posession. It makes no reference to having rods rigged or unrigged. Whilst your response seems logical, there is still plenty of room for the unsavoury characters to pin you as they please.

this concerned me greatly - so I just called fisheries, and the guy said unless it is rigged and ready to fish, it is not really considered as part of the possession count - only rigged gear is counted...

he said you could have your pelagic gear, your SP gear and your handlines all on board, as long as only 4 were rigged, you are OK...

he said commonsense prevailed...

EDIT: beaten by bump73

yeah, sounds like your mates got done by a grumpy officer?

Again, unless its in writing, don't trust these bastards. What they are saying is DIFFERENT to the legislation. Common sense has no bearing in the court of law.

One word... RIDICULOUS!

Whether the laws are fishing laws, boat laws, driving laws etc etc laws are put in place to protect people and environments in this case.

Fishieries and police do a great job 99.9% of the time but this is a case of some numbnut who is p*ssy whipped at home and its his only chance to have any authority in life.Its a bit like the cop who pulls the driver over and fines him for doing 53 in a 50 zone!

The poor old blokes with a few extra handlines are hardley the ones causing problems to the environment or others.

Some people need to pull their heads in!

This is exactly the case. But being there were two similar cases in one day at two different boat ramps, this task has probably been specifically assigned to them.

[Luringbream]

I invite a fisheries officer to this thread to provide clarification, so we all have the ability to pin it to the next inspectors forehead when they try to screw us over, for something so small. What a ridiculous excuse for a job. This is what our licences are going towards? Theres crimes, murder cases, rape cases and theft out there and these fisheries inspectors stand tall over confiscating a few hand lines from old men? Why didnt the commonsense prevail then? Its an outrage!

[user1829]

My understanding is that it doesn't matter how many lines/rods you have you can only have a maximum 4 in the salt and 2 in the fresh rigged up (ie. With hooks or lure) at any one time. The guys caught out had several rigged lines in possession abut if the lines had no hooks on them then they should've been fine. So boats with several outfits targeting several species should be covered, they just can't have more than 4 rigged up at a time.

This is just my understanding from reading the rules some time ago and it may be wrong. The thing I don't like about the whole confiscation issue is that it's not an equal and just punishment. Say one chap has five game outfits all rigged up and gets caught. He could be up for a fine and maybe $2000 of confiscated gear. Now, another chap setting 5 lines with hand reels gets caught, he looses 1 hand reel and gets the same fine. So he's lost about $5 worth of gear give or take with a fine, the total punishment being much less than the guy with the extra game rod despite committing the same offense. I don't think they should have the right to confiscate gear at all, they should only be able to give fines. That way it's fair and even for everyone!

OK, whilst I was satisfied with my response from fisheries, i kept digging (slow morning at work)

this is the ACTUAL NSW regulation:

Fisheries Management (General) Regulation 2010

Part 3 - Fishing Gear

Division 7 - Use of hand held lines and drift lines

Clause 46 - Hand held lines

(1) A person must not for the purpose of taking fish in any waters (other than inland waters):

(a) use more than 4 hand held lines, or

(b ) use any hand held line with more than 3 single hooks or 3 gangs of hooks attached or with more than 3 treble hooks attached to a

lure, or

© use any hand held line with a gang of hooks that comprises more than 5 single hooks attached.

(2) Subclause (1) (b ) does not apply to a person who, for the purpose of taking fish in any ocean waters or estuarine waters, uses not more than

1 hand held line with not more than 6 single hooks attached, if:

(a) a lure is fixed to each single hook, and

(b ) the line, when being used for the purpose of taking fish, is not left unattended and is used only by the method of jigging.

--

(6) In this clause:

"gang of hooks" means a group of single hooks, each of which is attached to, and in direct contact with, at least 1 other of those hooks.

"hand held line" means a rod and line or handline.

"hook" includes a single hook, double hook or treble hook.

clause 46: http://corrigan.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/fmr2010339/s46.html

whole thing in PDF: http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/sr/2010-475.pdf

so now the debate might be - what constitutes "USE"

Edited April 11, 2012 by user1829

[Luringbream]

My understanding is that it doesn't matter how many lines/rods you have you can only have a maximum 4 in the salt and 2 in the fresh rigged up (ie. With hooks or lure) at any one time. The guys caught out had several rigged lines in possession abut if the lines had no hooks on them then they should've been fine. So boats with several outfits targeting several species should be covered, they just can't have more than 4 rigged up at a time.

This is just my understanding from reading the rules some time ago and it may be wrong. The thing I don't like about the whole confiscation issue is that it's not an equal and just punishment. Say one chap has five game outfits all rigged up and gets caught. He could be up for a fine and maybe $2000 of confiscated gear. Now, another chap setting 5 lines with hand reels gets caught, he looses 1 hand reel and gets the same fine. So he's lost about $5 worth of gear give or take with a fine, the total punishment being much less than the guy with the extra game rod despite committing the same offense. I don't think they should have the right to confiscate gear at all, they should only be able to give fines. That way it's fair and even for everyone!

They only left the old men, aged 76, with two lines each. Half of the possession limit.

[user1829]

Again, unless its in writing, don't trust these bastards. What they are saying is DIFFERENT to the legislation.

not sure what 'legislation' you are referring to?

the legislation i just posted, shows the words i got from fisheries is same as the regulations...

it is the DPI website and DPI publications that are worded differently!

They only left the old men, aged 76, with two lines each. Half of the possession limit.

indicating the story may have been relayed incorrectly!

(and there was only ONE old man in the OP...)

Edited April 11, 2012 by user1829

[Luringbream]

OK, whilst I was satisfied with my response from fisheries, i kept digging (slow morning at work)

this is the ACTUAL regulation:

so now the debate is - what constitutes "USE"

I guess thats one avenue the men can explore/pursue. The statement as per the regulation does not exactly align to whats in the saltwater guideline 2012. Which one has a higher authority?

[user1829]

I guess thats one avenue the men can explore/pursue. The statement as per the regulation does not exactly align to whats in the saltwater guideline 2012. Which one has a higher authority?

in terms of a Fisheries Officers right to confiscate equipment - the legal Regulations, not any publication...

I have emailed DPI for 100% clarification regarding 'possession' as it seems this term only appears in the guidelines, not the law...

[Luringbream]

in terms of a Fisheries Officers right to confiscate equipment - the legal Regulations, not any publication...

I have emailed DPI for 100% clarification regarding 'possession' as it seems this term only appears in the guidelines, not the law...

Do agree. Please let us all know of the outcome.

Cheers.

[Catchin Jack]

Thank you for your comments.

Any further issues please refer directly to your local Fisheries office for clarification or your local member of parliament if you have any concerns.

This topic is now closed and is not to be restarted in another post, if you want to discuss it further then PM.