Spud._.
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Posts posted by Spud._.
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On 6/9/2021 at 4:45 PM, GordoRetired said:
I have never tried it but was talking to some guys who reckon that they catch heaps of squid off the jetty at the Roseville ramp. I think they fish it in the dark, but the lights there may well attract the squid. If you try it let me know how you go.
Will do
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14 hours ago, DerekD said:
Hi Spud,
I think I am pretty good at catching squid (see articles section in library for the post I put together) and have helped a fair few people over the years improve their catch rate. I've fished Middle Harbour for a long time too so the following is from personal experience.
Firstly, I'm assuming you are fishing daylight hours so if you are getting a few in a couple of hours I'd say you are doing pretty well. I have several spots which produce reasonably consistently but I usually have to hit each one (and sometimes several) to get sufficient squid for a fishing session.
Just some things to think about. Squid move around. 15 minutes could make all the difference between catching some and the dreaded donut. While I've heard of people who have found some locations where on a particular time of the tide their success rates goes up I haven't found one of these so called consistent spots yet. I also catch squid for fun so I'm not always desperate to catch them quickly.
What is important is covering ground and effectively. When there are two of us on the boat we will cast in different directions (say one towards the shore and dropping it down the water column and the other parallel to the shore). Most importantly, when someone hooks up get a second jig very close to where you think the squid is. They often travel in twos and threes so you can usually pick up multiple squid. Seaweed in Middle harbour only seems to grow in the upper section of the water column (say top 3-5m). I find the edge where it stops growing then send long casts out parallel to the shore and a meter or so out from this line. I have some faster sinking (not to be confused with size) jigs if I need to cover ground quickly.
The paternoster rig is another way of covering ground and you can send down multiple jigs. Do this on dusk with glow in the dark and your advantage increases. Spit bridge is a popular place for using this method and especially at night. Give some of the suggestions from the other Raiders above a try.
If I'm fishing Middle harbour and really needed squid I'd hit a few shore based spots the night before and then zip lock bag them and put them in the fridge (not freezer). I'll try for fresh the next day but generally use the pre-caught ones first and if I don't get to the freshly caught ones I can save and freeze them for next time. This way I keep a rolling stock of pretty fresh squid.
Regards,
Derek
Cheers
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19 hours ago, Tunastrike11 said:
yeah mate drop a burley bucket over the side or boat has a burley bucket. what i use is any fish frames pillies bit of tuna oil with bread works great also i keep all the oil out of tins of tuna i eat and freeze it you will get hundreds of yakka,s around the boat but squid will be there to good luck.
Cheers
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On 6/2/2021 at 4:37 PM, Tunastrike11 said:
believe it or not squid respond to berly anchor up and berly and throw jigs out in the trail good luck.
Wow I'll try that. What burley u reckon just like pillies chopped up or what?
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On 6/2/2021 at 3:41 PM, PaddyT said:
There are plenty of deep water weed beds around the inside of the spit-caught them on the bottom in 90 ft of water there with a paternoster
Damn thats crazy. With the paternoster rig do u use any action or just set and forget and at which depth? Do u reckon its worth targeting em using this method. Cheers
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16 minutes ago, campr said:
There's many a day I would be happy with a couple per hour. What do you get there, calamari or river/arrow squid?
If arrows I would add a set rod with 2 small jigs set from a posternoster rig. Ron
Yeh mostly arrows, but u can still catch calamari depending on how dirty the water is. Cheers for advice.
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Hey all,
One thing I've struggled with in terms of fishing middle harbour has been squid. I know it isn't because they aren't there because from all reports they have been fine, but I just can't seem to be getting them consistently. I have a small tinnie and am generally restricted to the upper reaches of middle harbour launching at roseville, defo no further than spit. I know getting em east of spit is way easier for consitent results but the upper reaches is where im restricted to atm. I've tried all the usual spots, weed beds, differentiating depth, different jigs, different retrieves, etc and can't seem to get more than a couple in a few hrs. Is it even possible to get em consistently up there? If so what do I do? What do I need to change with winter coming up? I'm not asking for exact spots but general areas and tips would be awesome bc i've been getting pretty frustrated recently, often with days with not one. Cheers.
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Just a couple of quick questions that arose from my session today:
1. Should I be targeting kings or jews at the moment, what is on the bite?
2. If I cannot get squid as a live bait, should poddy mullet or yakkas be my backup plan?
3. Does time or tide matter when targeting kings or jews?
4. Should I be slow trolling for kings or jews with a live or strip bait?
5. When targeting Jews, should I be looking for deep holes on the sonar to fish?
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Hi all again,
went out for a session on the kayak this morning (on the water around 6ish). First I went for some squid between killarney point and bantry bay with no luck or interest all. Luckily the previous night I purchased a couple of fresh squid at narrabeen, so I trolled for about three hours from bantry bay to seaforth bluff and got a small hit after about 20mins (picture below) but after that nothing for about 3 hours. Next I went to deep hole I sounded the night previous on navionics around yeoland point looking for some snapper and large bream with the same fresh squid. Got 5 snapper all around the 25cm mark to my frustration after about 3 hours doing that as well. I then decided to head up to roseville bridge targeting leatherjacket and nothing there either after an hour or two except for small bream. I'm starting to consider finding a way somehow to launch closer to the spit and fish around that area, as i think that it might just be a more productive area, for squid and live bait, as well as kingies and other target species, or to persist where I am. Unlucky day obviously, but I'm going to keep toiling till I strike gold!
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1 hour ago, DerekD said:
Hi again,
It was good to get out on the water. The people I know who were out on the water had to work hard today. Two jewfish (69 and 75cm) and no kings. Problem with going for kings or nothing there are days with nothing. Though I only fished with one mate today we have built a nice little network up over the years which lets us know where our best chances are.
First question - if land based fan your casts out. Maybe try a second jig then move along. If on the kayak you can cover ground more easily by casting parallel to the shore.
In my opinion Kings have earned their reputation but don't let it worry you too much. I chase them on bream gear (4lb with 8lb leader) at times. Takes a little longer to land but it is a blast. In addition to the 50lb outfit I went out with a 15lb outfit today and I've also landed plenty on that setup. Your 25lb outfit will be fine. Just make sure you have a smooth drag. When I head out with the 15lb rod I have a swivel with duolock clip on it. As I am heading from A to B I can troll a deep diving minnow (I like the Yozuri crystal minnow with large bib). When I get to B to put a bait down I pull out a pre-rigged swivel to 50lb line with heavy ball sinker (pass line 3 or 4 times through sinker to get a friction lock) and then 6/0 circle hook. I unclip the lure and then clip to this and send down a bait. The heavy ball sinker keeps it in the zone I want to be as I slowly cruise forwards. On the heavy outfit my 50lb braid runs to a short length of 80lb leader. I pass the leader through the eye of a snapper sinker and tie off to a swivel. From this swivel I have about 80 to 100cm of line and 6/0 or 7/0 hook. I'll see if I can get some photos at some stage.
Considering it can take a while to catch a squid unless it is a snack sized version I prefer to strip them as you get several baits out of it. The head goes on the heavy rod and a strip goes on the 15lb outfit.
Shore based for kings we will either send the squid unweighted through the water column or hang it underneath a water bomb type balloon to hold it in the zone. Shore based can be very effective. My biggest confirmed fish to date is the 104cm jewfish caught in Middle Harbour from the shore.
I'm getting RSI here. Too much typing. More later.
Derek
PS when a birthday or similar comes around I'm going to suggest getting a 2-4kg braid outfit. Once you know how to fish that I think you will find your overall fishing will improve dramatically.
PPS Google fishbrain and Vlad Voda or fishbrain and Oscar Moore. These are two people I've been mentoring here and there over the last few years outside Fishraider. They have put the work in but have a look at the quality of fish they are catching in Middle Harbour and some of Sydney's other waterways. I don't know where fishbrain gets its summaries from. It keeps calling kingfish as amberjacks.
Thanks for all the advice Derek, appreciate the help. I do have a fishbrain account so I will check those two that you mentioned. Cheers!
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5 minutes ago, James Clain said:
Yea the bull sharks are bait orientated but they follow the 23 degree water and run north to around the barrier reef I think. The water around middle harbour is about 21-20 i'm guessing but I haven't been there recently due to corona. There are always other sharks there but they won't bother you if you see one I would be more inclined to throw a line at it haha. The bull sharks in Sydney are always bigger than 2.4 metres so anything smaller than that is a bronze, dusky or maybe a small hammerhead. The leatherjacket in my past experience aren't too orientated around tides but a nice upper tide around the bridge pylons if thats where you want to go. Just a small size 1 long shank hook with something on it. Leatherjacket eat everything even heavy kingfish leader so watch out. If you drift live poddies near the bottom as you paddle slowly you are in the running for jew, kings , big tailor and even big flatties. If you get squid and poddies have both out. You can also anchor up over structure and use some burley. It may help to get a sounder on your kayak. You can paddle around and look for arches (kings) or big lines which could be jew or sometimes big tailor. You wont see flatties. And then while your paddling and drifting and spot some structure holding fish you can anchor up over it and burley.
Hoping to get a fish finder later this year or early next along with a boat, whether it be a tinnie or something a bit bigger. Thanks for all the advice, will post any good results on this forum! Cheers!
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29 minutes ago, James Clain said:
If you are really worried about Sharks just limit your activities from now late April until December. There will be little to no Bull Sharks in the area as they are a migratory species. Acoustic tagging says they all disappear although there was a really, really, really small percentage throughout winter but remember you are on a kayak and still safe during the summer. There are plenty of jewfish in winter and less kingfish but still lots of big ones roaming. You can also try for some big leatherjacket around the Roseville bridge pylons or aroudn the spit if you want to go for a paddle. For kings you gotta go downstream past the big turn after the Roseville section of waterway if you just cruise around with lures and live-bait you should be in the running.
The best live-bait for you will be squid so If you can sus out some spots around your area and learn to catch them. I recommend Yamashita jigs. Just get a few different colours and textures. In general the smaller jigs are better because the small squid wont eat as many big jigs but a big squid will take a small jig.
You can also bait trap poddy mullet. I am not sure about how much kings like them, they will definitely eat one if they are hungry. Although the little poddy mullet will be great for Jewfish.
Ok James, so from what I got from what you said, bull sharks generally move out during winter, which for me is great because I have a pretty good wetsuit. Thanks for the advice on leatherjacket - I guess if the kingies and Jews are off I can do that as a backup plan, also with leatheries, is there a particular time or tide they bite, what baits and rigs to use and how do you avoid pickers. I know how to make poddy traps so if squid luck is rotten i guess i can put a couple of traps around the shallows at bantry bay or something. Thanks for the advice. If I can't get any squid, but do get some poddies, is it worth going for kingies with them or just for jews. Thanks again.
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7 hours ago, DerekD said:
Squid move around. I generally don't worry about time or tides when fishing for them. It is not that the tides don't play a part at some locations (e.g. back eddy balling up some baitfish) but most areas I fish I strongly believe it is a matter of luck if the squid are there at that particular moment. 15 minutes could make all the difference so I work an area and then move along. On your kayak it will be easier for you to catch them as you can cover ground. I have many longer explanations but if I had to summarise my technique for squidding:
- I like a 2.2 or 2.5 as a general go to size. Big enough to cast, small enough for most squid to pick on it.
- After seeing how many squid have attacked my white plastics over the years I buy pink or orange jigs with a white belly. If I can see it from 10m away then I'm pretty sure the squid can too.
- Fish it as close to the bottom without getting snagged up. If over weeds count it down to stay above the weed. If over sand then let it hit the bottom.
- Short sharp aggressive flicks to get their attention.
- Pauses to allow them to grab the jig
- If they grab it without you knowing the short sharp aggressive flick won't give them time to let it go and it will set the tines of the jig
- A soft hand when fighting them.
- Watch out for ink when they come at you. If it gets your mate it is the funniest thing ever. If it gets you it is not funny.
You can find my method for preparing them in some of my past posts.
How does this play when using your kayak? Follow the shoreline and cast ahead and about 3 to 5 m off the shore. You will cover a lot of ground easily. I have a kayak from which I often fish for squid at the start of the session. It is extremely rare for me not to get any.
I head out with 3 rods on my kayak. A 2-4kg rod with 4lb braid for light lures and squid jigs. A 5-8kg rod with 15lb braid for trolling and flicking a heavier squid jig around and then putting the squid baits down when chasing bigger fish. A heavy outfit, usually my 50lb with poor mans downrigger (heavy snapper sinker) 6/0 or 7/0 hook and squid head or strip which gets left in the rod holder behind me on a light drag. That rod has caught a lot of kings just sitting there. When it goes off I put the rod in my hand into one of the other rod holders then reach back and grab the big rod.
If fishing for kings I like the bait mid water column. If fishing for jewfish I put a whole squid (ideally 15cm hood) out on the bottom with 6/0 snelled hooks and a light drag. I work on the theory that small fish can nibble at it but only a big fish can take it. I've seen the bait mouthed and dropped a couple of times (hence the light drag) before being able to load up gradually and set the hooks. I've also picked up a few sharks this way.
To be continued - heading out on kayak on Middle harbour this morning for my exercise.
Ok, know I think I understand the basis of squid fishing in the area (good luck this morning by the way) and I am assuming if I'm fishing land-based I just kind of work the shoreline, as the bush trail wraps along the shore from bantry bay to roseville bridge, so I have plenty of space to work with there. I am guessing that you are saying that trolling on the kayak mid-water is my best chance of a king, could you please explain the poor man's downrigger for me, keeping in mind that I only have 25lb line which I don't know is heavy enough. When doing this, do you use the whole squid fresh dead, live, cut into strips or head and gut. Also, does time of the day matter when going for kingies, eg dusk and dawn and where should I look to fish for kings, I have heard that they like structure like moorings and bridge pylons, is this true? Lastly, is it possible to go land-based for kings as well, if so how should I target them in. that respect. I have left below an image of my tackle box, please tell me if my gear is adequate and if not what I need, I think my hooks are around 4/0 and another thing is, my two best squid jigs which are both yamashita (2nd and 3rd from the right of the rows of jigs at the bottom) are the rattling ones, is this a bad or good thing? It is claimed to be the same noise that prawns make which attracts squid but I'm not sure if it will work seeing that I have never used them. Thanks again for all the help.
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7 minutes ago, Rebel said:
Welcome aboard Jacob. You will get all the info here from the experts.
Cheers.
Thanks Rebel👍
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2 hours ago, DerekD said:
Hi Jacob,
Firstly Middle Harbour is an awesome fishing location that fishes pretty well all year round. You have some access to some good locations but as you said it is your skill sets you need to build up. Last year in June and July people were getting multiple big kings in a session. Up to and over 1 meter. I've caught my first jewfish there and to date also my biggest jewfish (104cm) in Middle Harbour. Our best session was 6 jewfish. I saw two lads one afternoon land a 116cm jewfish. There is usually somewhere out of the wind. I suggest starting to learn to catch your own bait - especially squid. When you get good at that then you will always have bait in the fridge ready to go unless you decide to eat them instead.
As to your bull shark question. The last known death from shark attack in Sydney was in Middle Harbour but before you get worried about it read the story: https://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/actress-marcia-remembered-for-tragic-final-role-in-harbour-20130127-2dewb.html
This happened in 1963. They got her into the ambulance but somewhere else I read the clutch burnt out (really steep road there) and she died from blood loss. From memory over the years I can recall about 4 kayak versus shark incidents in the Sydney region.
Get yourself a mentor or ideally more than one. Under the Fishraider guidelines we should not be arranging a meet up with anyone under 18 unless you have an adult and with the current situation there are other risks. Not to say we can't help you but demonstrating something is far easier than trying to explain by correspondence (but I have done it before).
Homework (or home play). Use the filter on the site to look for articles on squid fishing. There are some good pinned ones. I've also done a few over the years. Watch some of the videos. This one from Yamashita is a pretty good starting point if are happy with sub-titles:
BTW what fishing gear do you have? Depending on the answer it allows me to refine my suggestions.
Regards,
Derek
Thanks so much for the response Derek, really appreciate it.
I have read multiple forums suggesting that squid is the best bait for species such as jewies and kingies, so I had a feeling it would pop up here as the go-to bait. I do have experience catching squid in jervis bay, where they are abundant and also around cowan creek area where you could snag a couple of arrows sometimes, so I know the general technique behind squid jigging. I just need to find where to catch them in my area of middle harbour, as well as what time and tides ect. I won't bother you for any of your secret spots or anything like that, just what areas to look for them and if they even are around these part of middle harbour, although I have heard they are there and you can occasionally get a couple from roseville boat ramp - but thats it. As for the tackle, I think I am reasonably well set up, being that I have 25lb mono and leader and a fair few types of sinkers, hooks and swivels, but I don't know what sort of rigs that I would use for a live and dead squid, also times and tides to fish.
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Hi all,
I'm a young angler (14) who fishes the upper stretches of middle harbour, maximum range being from about Pickering point to just about anywhere upstream (roseville bridge way). The reason being that I am restricted to kayak (launching at Roseville boat ramp) and landbased fishing. I have recently moved into the area and have fished landbased multiple times and on the yak a couple of times already, with not much luck at all, only small bream, snapper, whiting, ect. I would really love to learn ways and areas to catch predominantly kings effectively off the kayak or landbased (tips for other species like Jews and snapper appreciated as well). Also, with the winter season coming up, do summer species like kings and Jews completely disappear, and if so what species are worth chasing (I have heard john dory are a winter species found in these parts). Another point is that I have never lure fished in my life and I am much more comfortable bait fishing. On that note, best live baits and strategies to catch them is appreciated as well. Also, for any spearos out there, I got a new hand spear recently and I have done of bit around flat rock beach with a couple of nice whiting and luderick, any tips or good spots around here welcome. Also on this topic, is it dangerous for me to be speaking around these parts with the bull shark risk. Thanks for reading all this and any responses for a desparate young fisho wanting some solid results are greatly appreciated.
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Squid Upper Middle Harbour
in Fishing Chat
Posted
One last question what technique do i use for paternoster like depth action ect.