Please Explain 'taper'

[bas]

Hi,

New to the saltwater scene and I keep reading about a rods 'taper'. (Ok, stop laughing)

So, what is the difference and what is better for a 15kg overhead boat rod.

Thanks and you can stop laughing now.

[bas]

Ok, now you've confused me even more.

For some reason I thought it was referring to the bend of the rod, whether the entire rod bends, or just the end 1/2, 1/3 etc.

[Guest Saqa]

Stewy is on the right track there. In simple terms and relevant to your expected application the tip section on a faster taper rod will fold away quicker leaving a shorter lever for the fish to put hurt on you and allow you to put more pressure on the fish during any fight lasting over a few minutes. So yes a fast taper is good for a 15kg overhead boat outfitt as you would be targeting hefty stuff with such gear

[XTR]

that's a new one fast taper ( the taper the quicker the rod goes back to its original shape)

tapper is not recovery,

bas your close to the mark (,For some reason I thought it was referring to the bend of the rod, whether the entire rod bends, or just the end 1/2, 1/3 etc.)

a slow tapper is more a pirobloc bend ,from the tip to the butt ,

fast is the top third

and medium is just that a bit of everything ,

tapper and tip recovery ,

recovery is very important on alvey and spinning reels if you are chasing distance in a cast as a fast recovery like HST will help to shoot the line thru the guides ,

you all have heard of wind knots with braid ,this is caused by bad guide placement ,size ,when you have slow recovery in the tip , a paroblic action with fast HST will over come wind knots ,

fast tapper and correct placement of a chocker guide solves so called wind knots .

a lot might dissagree these points . Ive done the hard yards of many years in tip recovery and tapers in distance casting .

Leigh

Edited January 5, 2007 by Leigh

[Guest Saqa]

Ok, now you've confused me even more.

For some reason I thought it was referring to the bend of the rod, whether the entire rod bends, or just the end 1/2, 1/3 etc.

Taper

Take 2 rods both 7'

Rod 1 has 2mm tip and 10mm butt

Rod 2 has 2mm tip and 20mm butt

Rod 2 is faster tapered then rod 1. Rod 1 will keep on bending more into the butt area as presure is increased but will have less tip deflection when it does that hence a longer lever for the fish against you. While the tip on rod 2 will deflect more leaving a powerfull short stright butt section to work the fish. The slow tapered rod is desirable in some situations like black fish and trout fishing as it acts as a better shock absorber for the ultralight lines and hooks but when it comes to heavy gear you will find that the rod is bending more into the butt with as pressure is increased and with a large enough fish you will be left fighting a fish striaght of the reel resulting in unnesesarly lengthy fight bad for you and the fish. I have used both styles for chasing very large tropical reef species and found that while the slow tapered rods can be quite fun to use for the smaller stuff the big fellas are better with heavily built fast tapered rod. All this becomes even more important with gamefishing as fish are big and fights are long. Imagine holding onto a 50cm bit of broom stick and a 100cm bit, both with a 5kg bag of rice hanging from the tip. how long will you be able to hang on and how much effort will you be able to put on. The 50cm bit represents a fast tapered rod where most of the tip section has folded out of the way

[Evets]

Bas,

I think that what everyone is trying to say is the taper is how stiff the rod is.

The stiffer the rod, the faster its taper will be and the more effort you need to bend the rod.

Imagine 2 15kg rods. One a 25 year old solid fibreglass rod and the other a graphite rod. The will both bend differently when you fight a fish and that difference in the bend is the taper.

When you are fighting a fish the fibreglass rod will bend most of its length (soft or slow taper). The graphite rod will probably bend no more than about 1/3rd of its length (fast taper).

Which is better for you? Well it depends on whether you are using mono or braid. And whether you have fished much in the past and what species you are targeting.

If you are using braid (and less experienced) you will probably be better off (IMHO) using the slower tapered rod (one that bends about half its length) because the line doesn’t stretch very much and you need a little give in the set up (the rod will bend a little more before the line breaks). If you fish with braid and a fast tapered rod unless you are used to using this type of set up then you risk pulling the hooks.

With mono you could use either type of rod.

Personally offshore I fish with TDL20s using mono and softish uglystick rods. A lot of fishos use stiffer rods like backbones or Tcurves but they are a bit stiff for my liking. If you want to jig then a fast taper rod is the go. If I were to target big kings or offshore pelagics then I would use my custom made sabre (fast taper) which is more like a broom stick than a fishing rod.

To test your rod to see what type of taper it has put it in one of your rod holders with its reel and run the line through runners and peel off about 5m of line. Set the drag to strike and walk backwards and stop just as the line slips. Look at how much the rod bent before the drag started to slip. If the rod didnt bend much you have a fast taper rod. If it bent most of its length its a soft tapered rod.

Evets

[Guest Saqa]

Taper is a measurerable dimension, the rate at which the rod goes from thin to thick. A rod with a same dia tip and a fatter butt then another of the same lenght as the faster taper. A dowel has zero taper. Taper is one of the properties which gives the rod its bend "action". Generally a "fast taper" produces "fast action"

[XTR]

Taper is a measurable dimension, the rate at which the rod goes from thin to thick. A rod with a same dia tip and a fatter butt then another of the same length as the faster taper. A dowel has zero taper. Taper is one of the properties which gives the rod its bend "action". Generally a "fast taper" produces "fast action"

what about power pointed or furclom butts ,both have the same tapper and both are totally different with the same amount of product going in to each ,

as for tips the use of plumb fibers ,dual healix construction ,SVF Carbons with overlaying cuts to name a few of the current trends in manufacturing all will give you totally different action out of the same tappers ,that's why manufacturers stich to 3 simple actions

fast , medium ,slow they cant confuse the buyer to much that way ,

Edited January 8, 2007 by Leigh

[outdoordan]

Taper is a measurerable dimension, the rate at which the rod goes from thin to thick. A rod with a same dia tip and a fatter butt then another of the same lenght as the faster taper. A dowel has zero taper. Taper is one of the properties which gives the rod its bend "action". Generally a "fast taper" produces "fast action"

Leigh

I agree with what your saying, But IMO what your discribing is 'Action' not 'Taper'.

Rohit, I believe is correct in stating that taper is a measurable dimension. Action on the other hand is how and where the bend is concentrated and distributed along the length of the blank.

As previously stated, a bend concentrated in the first third is labeled a faster action than a blank with a working curve distributed along the majority of its length

Hope this helps

Dan

[Guest Saqa]

what about power pointed or furclom butts ,both have the same tapper and both are totally different with the same amount of product going in to each ,

as for tips the use of plumb fibers ,dual healix construction ,SVF Carbons with overlaying cuts to name a few of the current trends in manufacturing all will give you totally different action out of the same tappers ,that's why manufacturers stich to 3 simple actions

fast , medium ,slow they cant confuse the buyer to much that way ,

Exactly why I am trying to explain what taper is. Often this term is confused with action. Question was what is taper and what taper is good for 15kg overhead; not "what is action". 2 rods made from the same number of wraps of same material on different taper mandrels will have different action, so taper has already affected action. Now construction material and technique differences can change the actions further to suit whatever is the desired application. Why do blank manufacturs have different tapered mandrels to make same length rods

[XTR]

Exactly why I am trying to explain what taper is. Often this term is confused with action. Question was what is taper and what taper is good for 15kg overhead; not "what is action". 2 rods made from the same number of wraps of same material on different taper mandrels will have different action, so taper has already affected action. Now construction material and technique differences can change the actions further to suit whatever is the desired application. Why do blank manufacturers have different tapered mandrels to make same length rods

for different applications

[namesay]

As usual Saqa has the right points. Taper IS a measureable dimesion. When I was buying and making fishing rods back in the fiberglass days taper meant everything. The action of the blank depended entirely on its taper.

The faster the rod thinned out,the faster the taper and faster the action. The slower the rod thinned out, the slower the taper and slower the action. However, taper means very little to the rod's action with today's technology.

You have extremely fast recovery with the high end , high modulus grahite rods. Have a look at most loomis blanks and you'll see that it is a traditional slow/medium taper but the tip recovers very quickly. It has a parabolic bend but the butt can be made very stiff.

If you look at a wilson texalium blank then you'll see that it too is a medium taper rod but has a lock up point where the silver starts and a soft fiber glass tip. The tip folds away very quickly leaving you with a short crow bar. A typical multi taper rod!

For my style of fishing I like the slow/medium taper rods in high modulus graphite. Gives me a bit of leeway when using braid and keeps a more constant pressure on the kingies when they start shaking their heads in a rocking boat. I am finding that a lot of the newer graphite rods for braid seem to be designed this way . Everything from jig sticks to blue water casting sticks.

So differentiate between action and taper. These two things are entirely separate. Taper may influence a rod's action but not always. CHeers Kelvin

[XTR]

so a rod at 4.25 mts with butt od of 21 mill and a tip od of 2.8 mill has what sort of action or tapper

you can put action into a parell carbon or glass section of tube thru placement of either powerpoints or a frulcom .there is no taper in this action .

Edited January 8, 2007 by Leigh

[Guest Saqa]

for different applications

exactly.....and bas asked what taper is good for his application. You and I know there is more to rods then taper but does it help if the original question is explained and then expanded on

[namesay]

Cheers Kelvin

[XTR]

the first answer has got was (.The faster the taper the quicker the rod goes back to its original shape,)

this not true and bas said he was confused by it , He got the answer spot by his self ,

as i said in my first post most will disagree . as they have NO first hand knowledge of laying up blanks , regards Leigh

[Guest Saqa]

I fail to see how the dynamics of distance casting is relevant to some one asking for info on tapers effect on a 15kg overhead boat rod.