Miller Vs Team Daiwa

[David C]

Hi

what are your thoughts on Ian miller rods compared team daiwa rod does any one have both or what have you herd on the grape vine,, is it like comparing ford to holden or like ford to hyundi

[Rick T]

Not much use making an opinionated comparison Dave. Mick R would be one of the only people I know that owns both, and rods are such a personal thing that what he thinks may not be the same as what u do. In direct comparison but not saying either rod is better Daiwas have better quality guides for the rods at the same value. Both are what u would expect for rods of the $400+ range. Its like comparing ferari to porche, u would be happy with both but different people like different aspects of the cars.

Just made a little change as I am not sure which models u r refering to.

Edited January 25, 2005 by Rick T

[Guest bluecod]

I have heard that neither is quite as good as a Shearwater rod.

28926[/snapback]

Now THAT is an unbiased plug if I ever saw one

[David C]

yep the bream buster and say sageke

[Sputnik]

I've got two Miller’s - a Bream Buster Classic and Ultra Finesse.

I'm also lucky enough to have a Saegake.

They're all great rods. Although they couldn't be more different to look at - the Miller’s are a no-nonsense fish-catching Aussie with cork grips, while the Saegake is a bit flashier - black handle, gleaming silver guides. However, they both do a superb job. I feel very confident pulling any of them out of the rack - I know they’re going to help me handle just about anything I get connected to.

On a purely personal level, I do like the shortness of the Bream Buster grip. It might not be to everyone's taste, but it suits me just fine, and allows for great manoeuvrability. Strangely enough, I’ve probably caught more of my really big Bream on my Ultra Finesse while wading the flats.

(Incidentally, my wife bought me the Ultra Finesse, which made her very popular both in Otto’s and at home!)

But trust me, if you’re lucky enough to own either of these makes, you’re not going to be disappointed!

[David C]

What model BreamBusters have you looked at?

28956[/snapback]

the classic swoffa

[David C]

i wish my wifey would buy me one all i get is this and then this

[Sputnik]

Mike, as far as I know Otto's have never seen an Ultra Finesse.

Mate, not a word of a lie - there's 7’ 6†of lovingly-crafted Ian Miller technology sitting in my garage with the words “Ultra Finesse†proudly displayed on the butt - and there's only one tackle shop in the Drummoyne area that my missus could ever have found her way to. Check with Ted one weekend - ’er indoors became a bit of a legend when she marched in and pulled it out of the rack (she’d had some pretty good guidance from me in advance, mind you!).

Apparently, she had several other offers of marriage on the way out of the store!

[Pukka]

I couldn't agree more about the grips on the HL-Z's, while they look schmick they aren't very practical at that length and the design makes it impossible to cut them back and keep the looks.

... they're only impractical if you like short handles.

Slightly longer handles are far better than short handles when fighting a fish. A shorter handler means you're fighting the fish more with your wrist. For most of the smaller bream we catch this is fine, but when you're trying to persuade a larger bream out of more challenging territory, it's much easier to use you're forearm. Oyster leases are a prime example where a slightly longer handle can give you that extra little bit of leverage needed to turn a big bream's head. The handle on the HL-Z Saegake is about as short as I like to go for a rod of this type and length.

I think there has been a move toward shorter and shorter handles which is fine for some people but not always necessarily the right thing to do.

Joe

[Pukka]

... also, as i'm in a foot-stamping mood!

I realise you can ask for any handle when you're buying a breambuster, and that's great because I have to say, the standard handle offered on the latest Breambuster's really lets down an otherwise fantastic rod... very ordinary indeed.

Joe

[allen glover]

I couldn't agree more about the grips on the HL-Z's, while they look schmick they aren't very practical at that length and the design makes it impossible to cut them back and keep the looks.

... they're only impractical if you like short handles.

Slightly longer handles are far better than short handles when fighting a fish. A shorter handler means you're fighting the fish more with your wrist. For most of the smaller bream we catch this is fine, but when you're trying to persuade a larger bream out of more challenging territory, it's much easier to use you're forearm. Oyster leases are a prime example where a slightly longer handle can give you that extra little bit of leverage needed to turn a big bream's head. The handle on the HL-Z Saegake is about as short as I like to go for a rod of this type and length.

I think there has been a move toward shorter and shorter handles which is fine for some people but not always necessarily the right thing to do.

Joe

29035[/snapback]

I know this is going to start a heated debate and it all ultimately comes down to what you are used to using, as anglers train themselves to get as much as is possible out of whatever they have purchased. BUT short handles are far better for casting especially in cork. They over come whats known as butt inertia where you're loosing energy and speed trying to get the big assed heavy butt moving in the opposite direction to the tip. Short butts give you quicker tip speed a vital factor when casting ultra light weights. they also make for more accurate presentations as your able to stop the tip quicker.

On a side note here sports fishing especially when it gets to a compeditive level shouldnt neccessarily be about whats comfy it should be about optimizing your performance.

[Pukka]

I couldn't agree more about the grips on the HL-Z's, while they look schmick they aren't very practical at that length and the design makes it impossible to cut them back and keep the looks.

... they're only impractical if you like short handles.

Slightly longer handles are far better than short handles when fighting a fish. A shorter handler means you're fighting the fish more with your wrist. For most of the smaller bream we catch this is fine, but when you're trying to persuade a larger bream out of more challenging territory, it's much easier to use you're forearm. Oyster leases are a prime example where a slightly longer handle can give you that extra little bit of leverage needed to turn a big bream's head. The handle on the HL-Z Saegake is about as short as I like to go for a rod of this type and length.

I think there has been a move toward shorter and shorter handles which is fine for some people but not always necessarily the right thing to do.

Joe

29035[/snapback]

I know this is going to start a heated debate and it all ultimately comes down to what you are used to using, as anglers train themselves to get as much as is possible out of whatever they have purchased. BUT short handles are far better for casting especially in cork. They over come whats known as butt inertia where you're loosing energy and speed trying to get the big assed heavy butt moving in the opposite direction to the tip. Short butts give you quicker tip speed a vital factor when casting ultra light weights. they also make for more accurate presentations as your able to stop the tip quicker.

On a side note here sports fishing especially when it gets to a compeditive level shouldnt neccessarily be about whats comfy it should be about optimizing your performance.

29043[/snapback]

Hi Allen

I can't agree about the 'butt inertia' theory.

We're talking about around 6 inches of difference in length here not a foot or more. Any extra weight created by the addition in length would be minimal, therefore any inertia would be minimal.

This is a little off my point though.

What I'm saying is, there is a general trend which has been going for a while now, to put a short handle on every style of rod and in any length. I think it's important to make people aware that having a shorter handle isn't some 'rule of thumb' to look for, and certainly doesn't apply to every spinning rod on the market.

Joe

[allen glover]

I couldn't agree more about the grips on the HL-Z's, while they look schmick they aren't very practical at that length and the design makes it impossible to cut them back and keep the looks.

... they're only impractical if you like short handles.

Slightly longer handles are far better than short handles when fighting a fish. A shorter handler means you're fighting the fish more with your wrist. For most of the smaller bream we catch this is fine, but when you're trying to persuade a larger bream out of more challenging territory, it's much easier to use you're forearm. Oyster leases are a prime example where a slightly longer handle can give you that extra little bit of leverage needed to turn a big bream's head. The handle on the HL-Z Saegake is about as short as I like to go for a rod of this type and length.

I think there has been a move toward shorter and shorter handles which is fine for some people but not always necessarily the right thing to do.

Joe

29035[/snapback]

I know this is going to start a heated debate and it all ultimately comes down to what you are used to using, as anglers train themselves to get as much as is possible out of whatever they have purchased. BUT short handles are far better for casting especially in cork. They over come whats known as butt inertia where you're loosing energy and speed trying to get the big assed heavy butt moving in the opposite direction to the tip. Short butts give you quicker tip speed a vital factor when casting ultra light weights. they also make for more accurate presentations as your able to stop the tip quicker.

On a side note here sports fishing especially when it gets to a compeditive level shouldnt neccessarily be about whats comfy it should be about optimizing your performance.

29043[/snapback]

Hi Allen

I can't agree about the 'butt inertia' theory.

We're talking about around 6 inches of difference in length here not a foot or more. Any extra weight created by the addition in length would be minimal, therefore any inertia would be minimal.

This is a little off my point though.

What I'm saying is, there is a general trend which has been going for a while now, to put a short handle on every style of rod and in any length. I think it's important to make people aware that having a shorter handle isn't some 'rule of thumb' to look for, and certainly doesn't apply to every spinning rod on the market.

Joe

29049[/snapback]

Pukk

Its not just the addition of weight its both the distribution and distance from the pivot point. This is one of the reasons fly rods have no rear butt at all. To prove my point get your hands on a double handed caster and have a few false casts single handed. then think how it would throw a 1/32. Its an extreme example but it still equates to butt length as a casting hinderance and proves the inertia "theory"

(also known as butt drag or butt lag).

Your exactly right though in that short butts dont equate or optimise every spinning rod there are plenty of applications where even marginally longer butts have a distinct advantage. particularly when your casting heavier weights as lure weight overcomes it. but for my money ultra light lure casting for small fish like bream is far from an ideal use for longer butts.

Im sure your fine and comfortable with a slightly longer butt esp if your fishing longer rods and I'm just as sure you have used a lot of short butt rods and have simply found a persoanl prefference for a bit of a longer butt. but the body of professional and user experience shows that there is a distinct advantage to shorter butts for this application.

BTW Ive deliberatly not discussed how balancing or action damping relates to this issue as it would just make both our heads explode.

Edited January 26, 2005 by allen glover

[Guest Jocool]

I personally have always opted for the shorter butt version of any rod. Not for any scientific reason, rather because I am such a short ass myself, longer butts put the reel at an awkward position for me!

I don't catch enough fish to comment on wrist action vs forearm action! Although I could see the benefit on bigger fish.

[Pukka]

I couldn't agree more about the grips on the HL-Z's, while they look schmick they aren't very practical at that length and the design makes it impossible to cut them back and keep the looks.

... they're only impractical if you like short handles.

Slightly longer handles are far better than short handles when fighting a fish. A shorter handler means you're fighting the fish more with your wrist. For most of the smaller bream we catch this is fine, but when you're trying to persuade a larger bream out of more challenging territory, it's much easier to use you're forearm. Oyster leases are a prime example where a slightly longer handle can give you that extra little bit of leverage needed to turn a big bream's head. The handle on the HL-Z Saegake is about as short as I like to go for a rod of this type and length.

I think there has been a move toward shorter and shorter handles which is fine for some people but not always necessarily the right thing to do.

Joe

29035[/snapback]

I know this is going to start a heated debate and it all ultimately comes down to what you are used to using, as anglers train themselves to get as much as is possible out of whatever they have purchased. BUT short handles are far better for casting especially in cork. They over come whats known as butt inertia where you're loosing energy and speed trying to get the big assed heavy butt moving in the opposite direction to the tip. Short butts give you quicker tip speed a vital factor when casting ultra light weights. they also make for more accurate presentations as your able to stop the tip quicker.

On a side note here sports fishing especially when it gets to a compeditive level shouldnt neccessarily be about whats comfy it should be about optimizing your performance.

29043[/snapback]

Hi Allen

I can't agree about the 'butt inertia' theory.

We're talking about around 6 inches of difference in length here not a foot or more. Any extra weight created by the addition in length would be minimal, therefore any inertia would be minimal.

This is a little off my point though.

What I'm saying is, there is a general trend which has been going for a while now, to put a short handle on every style of rod and in any length. I think it's important to make people aware that having a shorter handle isn't some 'rule of thumb' to look for, and certainly doesn't apply to every spinning rod on the market.

Joe

29049[/snapback]

Pukk

Its not just the addition of weight its both the distribution and distance from the pivot point. This is one of the reasons fly rods have no rear butt at all. To prove my point get your hands on a double handed caster and have a few false casts single handed. then think how it would throw a 1/32. Its an extreme example but it still equates to butt length as a casting hinderance and proves the inertia "theory"

(also known as butt drag or butt lag).

Your exactly right though in that short butts dont equate or optimise every spinning rod there are plenty of applications where even marginally longer butts have a distinct advantage. particularly when your casting heavier weights as lure weight overcomes it. but for my money ultra light lure casting for small fish like bream is far from an ideal use for longer butts.

Im sure your fine and comfortable with a slightly longer butt esp if your fishing longer rods and I'm just as sure you have used a lot of short butt rods and have simply found a persoanl prefference for a bit of a longer butt. but the body of professional and user experience shows that there is a distinct advantage to shorter butts for this application.

BTW Ive deliberatly not discussed how balancing or action damping relates to this issue as it would just make both our heads explode.

29051[/snapback]

You're right I have used both, but I've been brought up using longer handled rods and don't find them half as ungainly when casting as other people might. I still don't think the inertia theory is an issue with the rod types I'm talking about, namely the Daiwa HL-Z's.

I've been spinning solidly now for the past month or so and caught an absolute shed-load of bream in the process. During this time I can honestly say there have been times when flicking a tiny single-tail lure on a short handled 6 footer would have been the ideal tackle to use, however there have also been many times when I've been glad to have the extra leverage, (and balance ), a slightly longer handle gives me.

Recommending a shorter handle for every rod and application, in my opinion, sends the wrong message to people who are new to spinning and are not sure what factors to look for in a spinning rod.

Joe