Fly Leaders

[Jethro]

Just wondering what sort of fly leaders all you fly fishos are using.

I have used the tapered leaders a fair bit but I was wanting to tie my own. Does anyone have a recipie (if there is such a thing) for a leader for a 5wt finishing in about 3kg.

Also what leader material do you use??

Thanks in advance

[Jethro]

Have you seen the new Cortland leader clips to attach the leader?

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Thanks Andrew

No I haven't seen them. Do you have a picture???

I was using one of those loops that slip over the end of the fly line but I have recently gone back to a nail knot. When I can tie it right

[Sputnik]

Jethro,

I always found the pre-made leaders a bit too pricey in the long-term, so I always re-cycle them! I buy one, then make sure I simply have plenty of tippet material in various different breaking strains handy, then, as I gradually have to cut more and more off the original tapered leader, I'd simply use a three-turn water knot to attach a new tippet to the existing butt.

This way, you still keep enough size in the butt to turn over most flies and give a decent presentation (something I always found was a bit harder with "home made" tapered leaders), without having to fork out for a highly expensive new Cortland, Orvis or Rio tapered leader every time.

Hope that helps.

(You can tell I'm a penny-pinching Yorkshireman, can't you? We're always described as being "like Scotsmen with all the warmth and generosity removed"!)

[Jethro]

Cheers Sputnik

Nothing wrong with saving a penny. Its the same I reason I asked.

I am dusting off the fly gear tomorrow after a very long time and I still have a couple of Fenwick tapered leader kicking around.

Last time I was in Tassie a trout guide whipped me up one his "tie you own" leaders and its great. Best of all each one is only a few cents to make

[Sputnik]

Cheers Sputnik

Nothing wrong with saving a penny. Its the same I reason I asked.

I am dusting off the fly gear tomorrow after a very long time and I still have a couple of Fenwick tapered leader kicking around.

Last time I was in Tassie a trout guide whipped me up one his "tie you own" leaders and its great. Best of all each one is only a few cents to make

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Who was guiding for you in Tassie? I know a few of the lads down there...

[Jethro]

Who was guiding for you in Tassie?  I know a few of the lads down there...

Can't remember his name it was a few years ago. It was on some private lakes out of Launceston

[fishauhj2]

Just wondering what sort of fly leaders all you fly fishos are using.

I have used the tapered leaders a fair bit but I was wanting to tie my own. Does anyone have a recipie (if there is such a thing) for a leader for a 5wt finishing in about 3kg.

Also what leader material do you use??

Thanks in advance 

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Hello:

I am new to this forum and I am not sure what your leader will be used for but I use knotted leaders for trout fishing. The leaders I tied are based on George Harvey (he's 93 years old now) leaders. They have a butt section that are tied with with stiff nylon and the section close to the tippet are tied with softer nylon. The idea behind this construction is the stiff nylon help to turn the fly over and the soft nylon section create s-waves that minimize the effect of the drag.

Initially they are more work to set up (8 sections) but it's possible to configure the leader that complement the fly you are using and also fit the water; and be able to adjust the leader precisely. For example, for fishing nymphs I mainly use pretty much use all stiff nylon (Maxima) because I want the leader straight to the nymph. For dry flies, I was a combination of soft and hard nylon and I can get s-wave up to the dry fly. One can customize the leader for the fishing situation.

For me, knotted leades have worked very well I mainly fish a brush creek with nymphs and I need a well behaving leader with which I can shoot the nymph with lead shots under branches and also see and feel the strikes. If you do a search for "George Harvey leaders" you should find some formulas. If I can help please let me know. I do much of my nymph fishing with a 8'4" 5wt rod with 4x and 5x tippets and they work very well. Longer rod would require adjusting the leader, etc.

Ted

[Narralakes]

Only tried trout fishing a couple of times, I can see why you need a tapered leader for those tiny flies and delicate presentations. You can also check out Ebay, always heaps of leaders there, sometimes a good bargin. I tried tying them myself for awhile, but it took too long. As I mainly fish the salt I just use a straight through, something like Vanish is good.

[Jethro]

G'day fishauhj2

Thanks for the info. Lately I have mainly been concerntrating my fly fishing on bream with small crazy charlies and the like. I usually use a 5wt as well around 8ft but I am just about to start building a 9ft 5wt on a Forecast blank.

My fly fishing knowlege is very limited. I assume when you say adjust the leader for a longer rod you would lengthen the leader??

One other question do you used any sort of floatant on your leaders when fishing dries?? I have done in the past but the fella I spoke to in Tassie advised against it and said if you have a clean leader it will float without any addatives.

[pogo]

G'day Jethro

My two bobs worth.

If youre going to use the leaders for Salt Water fly you will most likely be best served with a level leader or a two section leader.

Level use 1.2m to 2.5m or longer of 3-4 kg Fluorocarbon

Two section use around 1 to 1.2m of about 10 kg mono (stiff is better) and then a level section as above (uni knot or grinner to connect)

You can use a shock tippett if you need one around 5- 10 cms of 6 kg fluorocarbon or a short length of the lowest breaking strain of that really thin knottable steel trace if the choppers are around,

You mainly want to use a tapered leader if you are casting very light flies about size 6 or 8 or below where the fly itself wont have enough energy at the end of a cast to pull the leader straight so you need the taper to transfer energy from the fly line to roll the leader out (carrying the fly with it).

Nearly every SW fly I have used (bread flies an exception) has enough weight in it to straighten a leader if you are generating reasonable line speed. ( and one about 2/0 with dumbell eyes cast on a 9 wt travels like a bullet and hurts like hell if it clips you in the back of the head "

The other advantage of a level leader is that your flies sink better and get down to the depth quicker as they dont have to drag the heavy leader down and they also dont plane up as much on a retrieve.

If you do want to try a taper get one for bass or SW about 7 feet in length and about 10 lb BS tippet. Have a look at it and you will see that the 10 lb section runs for about a quarter of the lenght of the leader (about 18 inches to 2 feet and you should then see the leader getting thicker as the taper kicks in) that section is the tippet of the tapered leader, so what you do is trim that back to about 1 foot long and then attach a 2 to 3 foot lenght of 3-4kg fluorocarbon.This bit is now the tippet. This will give you a leader of just over 8 ft and you can make that section longet if you want.

As you use up the tippet by changing flies bustoffs etc when it gets back to around 18 inches just snip it off and put a new tippet section onto the tapered leader.

If you dont waste to much of the tapered leader each time you do this you should get many trips out of one leader before you have used up that level 10 lb section.

I grease my leaders for trout fishing up to the tippet section to help them float better but leave the tippet ungreased and often use flurocarbon for the tippet (it sinks) as I like to have the last section of tippet not sitting in the surface film (try it on a sunny day by floating a length of line on a swimming pool and looking at the shadow on the bottom it looks thick enough to anchor your boat, sink it just below the surface and the shadow disappears) It does mean you have to treat a dry fly with floatant more often as they get drowned sometimes as you pick up for another cast but I can live with that

Hope that helps

regards POGO

[fishauhj2]

G'day fishauhj2

Thanks for the info. Lately I have mainly been concerntrating my fly fishing on bream with small crazy charlies and the like. I usually use a 5wt as well around 8ft but I am just about to start building a 9ft 5wt on a Forecast blank.

My fly fishing knowlege is very limited. I assume when you say adjust the leader for a longer rod you would lengthen the leader??

One other question do you used any sort of floatant on your leaders when fishing dries?? I have done in the past but the fella I spoke to in Tassie advised against it and said if you have a clean leader it will float without any addatives.

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G'day Jetho

In general for a longer rod one would gain by using longer leaders at around to the length of the fly rod. There are no hard rules but the leader design is also dependent on the type of water being fished and the fly used. Flat water with dries would require longer and different leaders, etc.

I don't use any floatants and some cases where I heard where they use floatants here are for fly fishing with emergers where the insect is just below the water surface. In this condition the leader can be greased except for the last foot which sinks. People watch this junction for any movement. The floating section help to keep the fly from sinking too deep.

For regular dry fly fishing it's important to keep the fly drag free and for trout it means that the leader is not straight but have s-curves that can work with surface currents to minimize drag. If the fly is too heavy and the leader is not quite right it'll straighten out the tippet, etc. I've seen some discussion about merits of sinking tipptets, etc. but I don't know what the final answer is but I generally don't worry too much.

I would like to add the cast one uses is a an important factor as well. Typically, one tries to shock in those s-curves. For fishing nymphs, I use a shot so it'll strighten out the leader. The leader business sounds complicated but once you get started it's quite simple; helps to catch difficult fish, more fun; and cheaper. I believe most of the knotted leader design uses work of G. Harvey. His leader design is interesting as they use a thin .017" butt section.

I hope to be in your area sometime in september so I'll have tie some simpler leaders for saltwater. I am getting hold of some saltwater flies, bass poppers, and plastic worms to practice on and see how they cast. I can see it's going to be a different and exciting game.

Ted

[Jethro]

Pogo / fishauhj2

Thanks heaps there is some great info there. I will give the straight leader a try on the weekend.

fishauhj2 - Let me know when you are coming up this way and we will see if we can get the boat out and harrass the local bream and bass

[fishauhj2]

Pogo / fishauhj2

Thanks heaps there is some great info there. I will give the straight leader a try on the weekend.

fishauhj2 - Let me know when you are coming up this way and we will see if we can get the boat out and harrass the local bream and bass

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Give a shot and experiment with the leaders until it feels right. When you get it right you should be able to cast further, cast with all sorts of loops and place the fly very accurately with less effort and have more fun.

One cast worth taking a look at is called the "tuck cast" I think it may be useful for breaming. It's essentially a fly-first cast and I use it to drive the fly to the bottom fast while avoiding the line splash. It's also a very accurate cast if you have the right leader. A good website with good info. about casts worth taking a look at is:

http://www.sexyloops.com/index.shtml. Btw, G. Harvey developed this cast as well.

... nowdays I spend lot of time working on strike detection and I imagine it's not easy hooking bream at a distance. When I come visit we should try to knock off some fish using the fly rod.

Good luck fishing!

Ted

[trev]

I fly fish mainly for bass and nearly always in the Nepean system. I started using tapered leaders I bought then used knotted ones that I made myself frompatterns found on web An american site Flyanglers on line was good. I then made my own furled leaders from thin nylon and then white tying silk. But this seamed like overkill for someone like me who is far from delicate when presenting flies to bass in fact quite the opposite usually works best. So now use straight through soft mono. Will often see what the most supple/soft line I can find in about 6 - 8lb and use this. As someone mentioned above most larger flies have enough enertia to straighten out the leader.

A furled or tapered leader certainly seames to enable roll casts better though.

Cheers

Trev

[fishauhj2]

I fly fish mainly for bass and nearly always in the Nepean system. I started using tapered leaders I bought then used knotted ones that I made myself frompatterns found on web An american site Flyanglers on line was good. I then made my own furled leaders from thin nylon and then white tying silk. But this seamed like overkill for someone like me who is far from delicate when presenting flies to bass in fact quite the opposite usually works best. So now use straight through soft mono. Will often see what the most supple/soft line I can find in about 6 - 8lb and use this. As someone mentioned above most larger flies have enough enertia to straighten out the leader.

A furled or tapered leader certainly seames to enable roll casts better though.

Cheers

    Trev

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If the nylon is too stiff it's hard to get a narrow loop to fight the wind. If's it's too soft the loop tend to collapse so one has to compensate with a faster cast, etc. resulting in more work. I never used the furled leader but I read people used them on smooth water on spooky trout. One of it's pluses is when the fly is lifted from the surface it doesn't create a ripping effect on the surface. One of the important thing about carefully designed knotted leader is that each junction act like a hinge to help to turn things over efficiently.

I read sometimes the bass like more of a splat; usually, the trout will run away unless you can place it accurately on it's nose and it'll strike it as a knee-jerk reaction. The problem is the trout can spit out a nymph less than a second and it's important to maintain a tight line to the nymph from the start. I imagine I may have the same problem with the bream.

I test casted a balsa bass plug with a tapered leader and it worked fine and I imagine I'll have no problem with a #4 fly but need to experiment with #0/1 saltwater fly as well. I test casted a 4.5" plastic hawgtail with a 9' 6wt fly rod for fun and it wasn't too bad either.

Ted

[Guest bluecod]

.... One of the important thing about carefully designed knotted leader is that each junction act like a hinge to help to turn things over efficiently.

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Ted,

Can you elaborate on your quote a bit to explain the hinge bit ?

I was roll casting floating bread flies [tied on a #10 hook] at mullet this morning on a 6/7 weight and straight 4lb mono tippet into a slight breeze and was having a difficult time trying to get the tippet to turn over and not fall back onto itself. I sorted it out by applying a lot more power to the cast, but not before getting a few wind knots. Tying stepped leaders is something I may have to investigate further.

[fishauhj2]

Ted,

Can you elaborate on your quote a bit to explain the hinge bit ?

I was roll casting floating bread flies [tied on a #10 hook] at mullet this morning on a 6/7 weight and straight 4lb mono tippet into a slight breeze and was having a difficult time trying to get the tippet to turn over and not fall back onto itself. I sorted it out by applying a lot more power to the cast, but not before getting a few wind knots. Tying stepped leaders is something I may have to investigate further.

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Bluecod:

First let me explain about the hinges as I understand it. As Harvey and others explain it hinge points are created where the leader joins the fly line and where the soft mono joins the hard mono. In the latter case they say it promotes the collapse of the soft mono portion into soft coils. When it comes to the butt section if it's too stiff it's like an extension of the fly line. So if it's too thick it's like extending the fly line. The physics of these business is also tied to the cast so I don't think it's possible to explain in detail but it is related to the centripetal force of the unfurling line/leader.

It just happens I was reading an article which was explaining how the loop unfurls and why the taper is important. As the line/leader unfurls there is the centripetal force of the leading edge of the loop (it is spinning). As the line becomes thinner progressively the loop rotation speeds up because there is less mass and this helps to transmit the energy ultimately to the fly. For bulky flies a fast taper helps to accentuate this effect and slower taper allows a more gradual turn over.

For my application I need more gradual turnover which come with longer leaders. I think tapering of the leader is no different of tapering of the fly line. I think the hinging at the fly line and leader controls the energy transfer. A narrower loop results in faster spin. If the butt of the leader was too thick it would make the loop wider and make it more difficult to get distance and I think this is why a hinge was placed there.

In my case I often put a small lead shot on the leader because I want my nymph to go to the bottom fast and I found good tapering helps me to cast the whole thing with less effort. I tried casting the outfit on a windy day at an urban lake and it wasn't too bad but I had to adjust my cast.

I think you will find the tapered leader will help you to turn the fly over better and save you energy. These leaders should work well in the flats and I think you won't be disappointed and catch more fish with less effort!

Ted

[Guest bluecod]

Thanks Ted,

Explains it perfectly and tells me that joining the leader to the flyline by means of loop connections is not the way to go with light flies.