Epirb

[Geoff]

I understand from a comment made on the radio yesterday by a MSB officer that all boats , regardless of length who travel more than 2nm off shore will be required to carry an EPIRB.

The below statement indicates introduction 1/2/09. Some Gov. web sites suggest there will be a grace period between Feb & Sept 2009 so , the exact timing is a bit unclear.

With the new regulations expected to be introduced by the State and Territory Marine authorities from 1 February 2009, all boats proceeding more than 2nms outside partially smooth waters (off shore ), will be required to carry an EPIRB that meets the Australian/New Zealand Standard 4280.1 that deals specifically with EPIRBs. EPIRBs are required to operate for a minimum of 48 hours and float upright when deployed in water. EPIRBs are designed to be activated and deployed in the water to

operate most effectively.

Perhaps Raiders have other information they would like to share on the legistion , timing & sugested models , Ie , manually activated V's water activated considering there is a considerable price difference between the two

Here is the Gov. web site showing the "approved brands"

http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/approved_models.asp#406epirb

The other question I have is where best to mount the EPIRB. Consider these scenarios.

Boat / motor have been imolibised but is uprite & still aflot. Having the EPIRB mounted up front in an easily accessable location is perhaps the logical location. Agree ??

Boat has been over turned . It is necessary to dive underneath to retreive the EPIRB. Having it upfront is perhaps now not that practical.

Mounting it on the side or near the rear may be a better option , ie more easily accessable. Would be interested to hear your thoughts / comments.

Geoff

[Yarraone]

With these new laws, I am wondering about the cost? For a fisho that may only go outside maybe once or twice a year, can you hire these models that are aceptable?

I know you can hire them in VIC, But what about somewhere in Sydney? Or should I just bite the bullet and p-art with the catch just in case I do go offshore?

My next question is , How do you estamate how far out you are? What if you are right on the edge of the 2nm limit?

[BFB]

I carry my EPIRB in a safety bag along with my flares and a few other essential items that way if anything goes wrong all I need to do is grab the bag anf I will have everything I need. The bag is kept in a side pocket and I tell everyone on the boat where it is.

Hopefully I will never need it and it feels good to have it there just in case.

[Frantic]

In scenario no1 where the boat is still upright but no motor the epirb would only be used if inadated with water with no radios operational and u cant use anything else like flares and such ? the clip that its in is pretty tough and hard to knock it out . Easy to fit in a few place's mine's inside top coaming next to steering wheel so i can grab it even if the boat's overturned. a couple of self tappets should do .so its stored separate to flares & expired one's "so 2 sets of each",maps ,horn,vsheet and other assorted items. I would be looking towards scenario no 2.

craig

[pelican]

The introduction of this being done with stealth is very poor form. Like the legislation for the mandatory change over legsilation it has been handled badly.

I'll paint a scenario.

You own a 6m seawortthy boat

The law gets passed.

You are not notifiedof change.

You don't have a new EPIRB

On feb 3 you are offshore 3 miles and your boat sinks, someone on your boat dies due to exposure.

In law you are probably neglegent especially with the new increased penalties and neglegence laws introduced 3 months ago ( everybody knows about those as well!!??) If you honestly think an insurance company will pay for or protect you from damages claims when a law was legislated and the Police or Maritime were going light on enforcement???? Yeah right. You're gone unless the soft introduction is legislated and written down to protect boaters against insurance companies or the authorities when they are having a bad day.

Their soft introduction will be like the last one where they will issue formal or imformal warnings instead of fines but it won't protect you if a worst case scenario happens.

There was a thread by Go-Fish pete about this new law late last year

Hey Geoff can you give a link to any sites where it is written down?

Interesting why there should even be a 2 mile limit? Without a boat in a life jacket can you swim 2 miles in current etc etc

My guess is that in 90% of sinkings of small powerboats who were carring a epirb in the last few years they were not deployed as they turn belly up so fast in swampings and sink pretty fast with all the gear in them. It is very soon going to get to the position where insurers won't cover boats to go outside smooth waters let alone 2 miles unless they have full upright floatation or a self deploying liferaft or full survey. Boats not built or certified with a fully sealed self draining hull and floatation will be stuffed.

Yes you an rent 406 epirbs

Yes you can share them between boats as long as it registered and the contact is avaliable and aware which craft it is on. AMSA had written a note or reply to that affect last year I believe.-

Why don't they increase the fine to $20,000 for theft or posession of a EPIRB as it is a life saving device.

The manufactures price gouging, limited avaliability just adds to the issue and expense

Happy Australia Day - Getting to be a bit of a police state where common sense doesn't count and everyone on a boat called Offshore XXXX by the manufacturer ( but really a bay boat) carring some simple minimum complying safety equipment thinks it's safe to go 20 miles offshore

Pel

Edited January 25, 2009 by pelican

[Geoff]

There was a thread by Go-Fish pete about this new law late last year

Hey Geoff can you give a link to any sites where it is written down?

Pelican Tks for your post , interesting reading . I have also just read your post dated 26/5/08 , New Epirb , bulk buy.

I have had a search around the web looking for legisation or advice from MSB or the Gov. where it states ALL BOATS , regardless of size , that travel outside 2nm require an Epirb along with what fines can be applied.

There are numerous sites with information implying "all boats" but they could be misinterperated. The latest one dated 21/1/09.

http://www.waterways.nsw.gov.au/docs/minis...news/epirb1.pdf

Contrary to the the above there was also suggestion that there will be a grace period regardless if an Epirb has or has not been ordered , perhaps up to Sept 2009 but again , unable to find any information on this timing.

Having said all that & assuming the new rules apply to all boats outside 2nm I need to decide which brand to purchase & the instalation position

Geoff

[Bar Up]

I understand from a comment made on the radio yesterday by a MSB officer that all boats , regardless of length who travel more than 2nm off shore will be required to carry an EPIRB.

Just did a search through the Waterways website and cannot find anything that would suggest they have changed the legislation in relation to "length".

Can someone please clarify and give links to this change in legislation???

[pelican]

Hi Geoff

This is the most recent thread.

http://fishraider.com.au/Invision/index.ph...=epirb&st=0

Safety adv committe put forward to have it changed to all vessels so it was same for several states yadda yadda yadda.

I never saw the draft ammendments ( nor did a friend that actually contributes to the committee- hmmmm) but they were in theory on public display ( possibly in the form of a agenda item or minutes).

I think it requires amendments to the legislation as 6m is in the legislation.

Sorry for my bluntness on this one as it gets my goat. We have legislation so that it forms our laws. Now we are coming to the point where the legislation is saying here is the base rules and the "äuthority" with consultation can do amendments etc etc and decide on definitions and enforcement. This leads to weak law and poor rules and a field day for lawyers. I'd prefer the legislation done properly and enforce fairly after a decent advertised period as it will stop political knee jerk stuff in the future.

As for a "world wide shortage" statement by a Joe Trip-odi I think he has been fed a line and is just big noting himself. The rest of the world legislated and changed over years ago. Australia lagged. Some states in Australia changed over 12 months ago etc etc. Lazy NSW wacked through some late legislation at short notice which allowed no time for propper notification to boat owners after teh law change. EPIRB companies obviously underest

I'll stick by my comments that it is a law and don't expect insurers or lawyers to accept an excuse that just because it isn't being firmly enforced will reduce your culpability or responsibility regardless if EPIRBS are avaliable or not. You will be seen as a nec=gligent Captain if there is a major incident.

I like the EPIRB next to the helm as that is the place where the person who is responsible for setting it off will be , trying the radio etc if there is an emergency. We snapped the clip off the last holder so it comes out easier and will possibly float free and clip the lanyard to the captains life jacket thet lives on the back of the helm chair (the tethers that come with them are tough and will cut hands if tied to a solid part of the boat) Small boats sink always stern down deaeper so having it at the front of the boat would be a shallower dive to retrieve if stuck. If anything happens to my boat whoever is at the helm will be putting that jacket on or grabbing it as a first response so they will also have the EPIRB attached is my theory. When solo offshore regularly wear a inflatable jacket and carry a epirb attached but affording a new mini one is getting painfull.

It is a real gamble to have safety gear in a visible and mounted position with so many thieves about but safety is safety and hence my comment about anyone caught in posession of a EPIRB they shouldn't have should get 2 years and $20000 so they are a no stael item.

I would only buy the water activated ones with the GPS as if I am in that much trouble I want help and I want it fast as possible and there is a huge differece in time to signal and report coordinates from old version 406 models to the new models ( something some manufactures fail to point out till they sold down their old stocks) and of course with a GPS one the co-ordinates are further narrowed and allow search boats and planes without a radio direction finder to actually find you not be looking in a 1 mile radius of original reported position. Painfull as it is if I have a choice to spend an extra $300 or be swimmig and injured 10 miles offshore for an extra 3 hours I'll spend the $300 -- Arghhhh never thought I'd say that. Am deciding at teh minute with a second boat to have a basic one on the boat ( to comply) and have the GPS mini version on the jacket and just take it between boats.

Our other safety gear in a proper RFD 20 litre watertight container with a foam buoy with water activated life jacket strobe light and reflective tape is placed on deck whenever we are outside and held with a light lanyard that would break if the boat went straight down and hopefully surface. I have been tempted to attach the EPIRB racket to this container.

Hope never to have to use any of it and same for everyone else.

Doing a lot of solo stuff make you think about safety as I have seen many small stupid thing become big quickly.

Like to hear how others do it??

Pel

Edited January 26, 2009 by pelican

[batfishing]

I have a half cab and placed mine just inside the Cabin, it is withn reach from the steering wheel and readily accessible from the passenger seat.

Like the previous post I went for the Water Activated and GPS unit. I did a bulk purchase for a group of friends and a few customers. I basically talked them all into the same unit as they agreed with my reasoning.

If ever I need to rely on it, at that point in time I won't care if the increased accuracy of the GPS was a $1,000 more let alone the extra $150 or so that it is.

The previous post on pointing out where the EPIRB etc I believe is an important point. I am ex army and as such fairly safety conscious.

I make a point of when we are all on the boat of atopping just out from the ramp, particularly with someone who doesn't know my boat and pointing out, Life Jackets, (I have the self inflaters so again a new person, how to where it) the grab bag with life jackets, the EPIRB why, how it works and importantly if they grab it, undo the string and tie it around their wrist, pointless if it floats away from us, the VHF radio and the distress button.

I found it interesting when I jumped on a good friends boat who I had organised an EPIRB for that after we had been out for an hour or so, I actually had to ask him where he had put tje EPIRB, must say in an emergency I wouldn't have looked there.