Winter Rest Up

[weagles3]

Hi all, just wanted to put out there your opinion on putting your inboard/outboard to bed during winter months.

For me I usually go out fishing in winter anyway. Maybe half a dozen times during winter. Definatley not as much as the warmer months.

My questions are:

1/ How long is it before you should setup your engine for bedtime?

2/ How do you do it and what do you use etc?

3/ Is it really necessary?

I have had boats for past 12 years and have never done it. I usually just start my motor every week (maybe twice) for 15 minutes just to keep seals in motor etc lubed. Few people say you should do it if sitting for a long period of time.....

What are your opinions?

[Juggs]

The yanks do it over winter ie it's called winterization

Generally it's just a fogging spray they coats the internals to prevent rust

And getting all water out of the cooling system to prevent ice

If your using it every month or so don't do anything it's pointless

Start it now and then

Move the steering to stop it seizing

And manage the fuel with a stabilser

[weagles3]

The yanks do it over winter ie it's called winterization

Generally it's just a fogging spray they coats the internals to prevent rust

And getting all water out of the cooling system to prevent ice

If your using it every month or so don't do anything it's pointless

Start it now and then

Move the steering to stop it seizing

And manage the fuel with a stabilser

Thanks Juggs, I thought so. Forgot they have ice there. As for stabiliser, what sort of time (weeks/months) should you use stabiliser? I have thought about it, but have not been able to work out how much fuel I have left in the tank to add the required measurement Ie: 100 mls to 40 litres or whatever it is. I have been croof for 2 months after surgery and was looking at adding it. 2 months toooo long for fuel to sit?

[Juggs]

I dont use the stuff but pretty sure it has to be added early on

Not after the fuel has deteriorated

I also fill the tank after every trip means less air movement as the tank heats and cools during the day

this cuts down on condensation entering the tank through the breathers

I only have a 70l underfloor tank so if I havnt used it within a month to six weeks I drain it and put in the wife's car with a transfer pump

Then I refil the boat

I may be wrong but 4 weeks is about it for raw fuel before it starts deteriorating

[bisso]

Hi,

Depending on your tank size, the fuel in it generally going off is dependant on the conditions and how full the tank is.. as previously described, an almost empty tank will be more succeptable to condensation than a full tank. Also the quality of the fuel is another factor to consider i.e premix or straight fuel.. E10 is a no no for boats as it contains ethanol which attracts moisture not to mention the perishing of your fuel lines etc. My understanding is that depending on your tank size which is 270 litres in my case, the fuel will generally deteriorate over time to a stage where it can be classed as off after some 4 months.. i haven't tried that theory nore do i wish too. i just run the motor at least once a month which i have always done whether its a 2hp outboard or a 300hp inboard.. lack of use is the worst enemy of an engine than lots of use... A motor with a few hours on it thats ten years old could possibly be in worse condition internally than a two year old motor with a lot of hours on in that has been used regularly. (with servicing at the required times of course)..

[Juggs]

Hi,

Depending on your tank size, the fuel in it generally going off is dependant on the conditions and how full the tank is.. as previously described, an almost empty tank will be more succeptable to condensation than a full tank. Also the quality of the fuel is another factor to consider i.e premix or straight fuel.. E10 is a no no for boats as it contains ethanol which attracts moisture not to mention the perishing of your fuel lines etc. My understanding is that depending on your tank size which is 270 litres in my case, the fuel will generally deteriorate over time to a stage where it can be classed as off after some 4 months.. i haven't tried that theory nore do i wish too. i just run the motor at least once a month which i have always done whether its a 2hp outboard or a 300hp inboard.. lack of use is the worst enemy of an engine than lots of use... A motor with a few hours on it thats ten years old could possibly be in worse condition internally than a two year old motor with a lot of hours on in that has been used regularly. (with servicing at the required times of course)..

my neighbour runs a 900hp ski race boat and they consider 3-4 weeks the cut off before they will run a motor on it, they had experienced engine failures running fuel 8 weeks old

obviously a more highly strung engine with twin turbos

[weagles3]

Thanks fellas, some good fats there. I will use some 'Stabiliser' as well as keep tank full. Mine is only 70 litres.

Many thanks

[The Incredible Hull]

Hey Guys,

So after reading this thread, I decided to start up my 2 stroke 40hp Mercury for 5-10minutes.. Last time I started it was about a month ago for about 10 minutes. The fuel is very old too, I'd say around 6 months(no stabilser), and I always pour 98.

With a 2 stroke, after turning it off, it discharges some black oil, depending how much oil you mix in. After starting it today, I noticed instead of black oil, it was brown...

Can someone educate me on this, as to why it is brown? I get a feeling I should empty and clean (don't know how to clean, any tips appreciated) my fuel tank. I think its around a 25litre tank.

Cheers and thanks in advanced.

dave.

[sydney south]

I have always used the best fuel that I can buy in boats and cars over the last 20 odd years, have never had any engine or fuel issues. At the moment I have a 175 Mercury Opti on a 2102 Trophy and supply it with clean 98 oct from the major fuel dealers. Yes a little more expessive to run, but no problems and low cost servicing.

[Testlab]

I usually have between 600 and 1000 liters of 98 in my 11m cruiser which is used up over periods of 3 to 6 months depending on time of year. Never has any fuel aging issues or other problems.

On the other hand, in the 14 footer I have 25L of premixed 95 or 98 or 25L of plain fuel and I do get problems with the fuel going off over the same time period. I think it is related to temperature, the higher temps or the much bigger temp range in the smaller tanks send it off quicker.

[The Incredible Hull]

Cheers guys.

I might run it again tomorrow and see what the outcome is.

[The Incredible Hull]

I ran the motor again today, same outcome, brown milky oil. Never had this before, usually its pure black oil.

Looks like I'll be cleaning the tank very soon.

Question, what does everyone do with the oil fuel? I.e. how do you dispose of it? I must have about 15-20 litres in there.

[Testlab]

I don't think there is anything wrong. Black oil from the exhaust is from soot and other combustion by products. When you've run the engine normally over the course of a day you're burning quite a bit of fuel and oil at normal running temps. In a pre-mix or vro or oil injected stroke the oil goes through the combustion chamber and out the exhaust. The more thoroughly it is burnt the blacker it comes out - or so I think (hazarding a guess here) that's the likely outcome since there are more hydrocarbon by-products in it. So flushing it after a days run gives that black residue.

The brownish oil residue is probably because the engine isn't getting up to the same normal temps as proper running does, the oil is not burning off as it does normally and there is probably also more unburnt fuel in it (low speed mixtures are harder to finely control without EFI).

That's my thoughts. As to where to dispose of tanks of fuel, check with the local council, a service station or local car mechanics. Since it's a hazardous substance I don't think it's easy to get rid of.

[The Incredible Hull]

I don't think there is anything wrong. Black oil from the exhaust is from soot and other combustion by products. When you've run the engine normally over the course of a day you're burning quite a bit of fuel and oil at normal running temps. In a pre-mix or vro or oil injected stroke the oil goes through the combustion chamber and out the exhaust. The more thoroughly it is burnt the blacker it comes out - or so I think (hazarding a guess here) that's the likely outcome since there are more hydrocarbon by-products in it. So flushing it after a days run gives that black residue.

The brownish oil residue is probably because the engine isn't getting up to the same normal temps as proper running does, the oil is not burning off as it does normally and there is probably also more unburnt fuel in it (low speed mixtures are harder to finely control without EFI).

That's my thoughts. As to where to dispose of tanks of fuel, check with the local council, a service station or local car mechanics. Since it's a hazardous substance I don't think it's easy to get rid of.

Thanks for the reply mate, that does make sense. Yer I always flush the motor after a trip, and don't think I've started it randomly at home, until now.

I might take it for a 10 minute run in the local lake next weekend, then flush it at home and see how it goes.

On the flip side, I will do some maintenance too hehe gona change the gear oil and plugs.

[The Incredible Hull]

So I did the lower unit maintenance for the first time on an Outboard, was pretty easy.

First was gear oil. Had trouble getting the 2 screws out, so I used the screw driver, and a hammer, gave it a number of very firm knocks and waa laa. The gear oil looked perfect, wasn't grey or had any water at all, in fact it looked fresh brown, which means my seals are working! Pumped in new gear oil via a pump, from the bottom hole. Oh and Testlab, you were spot on mate, clearly nothing wrong

Then I attempted to remove the prop, to check for fishing line. Firstly removed the split pin (looks almost the same as the split pins on the rollers of your trailer). Then the hard part came, undoing the bolt, looks the exact same size as a spark plug. I tried to hold the prop whilst using a socket to pull the opposite direction and that resulted in...

I then found a piece of wood, covered it with a rag and shoved it between the prop, came out with ease. You'll notice I also used a hollow pole as leverage on the socket, works like a breaker bar.

Came loose very easy.

Jiggled the prop off.

No fishing line at all, extremely clean. Greased up the rod which the prop slides on, put it all back reverse order. Slightly tricky on tightning the bolt, as my bolt has gaps, which is needed for the split pin to sit through. So I had to tighten a tiny bit then take off the socket to check if the gap lined up for the pin to go through.

Tomorrow will buy plugs and replace them, straight forward task.

Funny what should have taken 20 minutes, took me an hour Most standing around trying to figure out how to remove the prop, the wood and rag really works a treat!

It's very easy to do the basic maintenance and will save you hundreds, any questions please feel free to pm me!

cheers,

dave

Edited May 30, 2012 by The Incredible Hull

[Testlab]

The block of wood is standard prop removal equipment.

You did remember to pull the leads off the spark plugs before attempting to take that prop off didn't you?

When you do remove a prop it is a good idea to also remove the thrust washer and make sure it is not corroded onto the shaft. The thrust washer is between the prop and the bearing carrier (the bit where the shaft comes out of the gearbox) but sometimes it can be stuck onto the back of the prop when you pull it off, if so dont lose it.

There is no need to tighten the prop nut excessively, just preloaded enough so the prop doesn't have any play back and forth and then line up the hole for the cotter pin. Finding out the correct torque is a good idea to do the job properly.

Apart from the spark plugs, what about the water pump impellor?

[The Incredible Hull]

Why do I need to pull off the spark plug leads before taking off the prop?

No never thought about water pump impellor, although I just looked it up and looks ok to do. Just need to find out where I can buy the kit. How often does the impellor need to be changed?

[Testlab]

You pull off the plug leads because that cut on your finger may have been a lot worse, like an amputated hand... Those engines use a magneto ignition, which unlike a car or an etec, etc doesn't need battery power to start, just a good turn of the flywheel will induce a charge into the windings and generate a spark (simplified explanation).

Instead of the ignition switch applying power to the engine to make it go, the ignition switch grounds out part of the magneto circuit and kills the spark to stop the engine. If the ignition wire is broken or there is a bad earth then the engine will start and run without the switch being on.

So, working on props on magneto ignition motors is a real bad idea unless you make sure the engine can't kick over. It doesn't have to run to cut you really badly, just one cough from one cylinder is all it takes. So pulling the plug wires makes it as safe as it can be.

I know you're thinking the gearbox was in neutral.... Ok, but sometimes things get left in gear.... and when you go to do the impeller you may need to have the gears engaged to remove the lower leg (so the shift linkage is in the correct position).

Impellers should be done every year, two at the outside if not used a lot. When left sitting unused they get hard and brittle and break apart.

Hope this helps.

[The Incredible Hull]

Thanks for the advice, will definitely take it on board. Going to order the impeller this week and get that done.

Question, I have heaps of marine grease which I use for the trailer wheel bearings, can I apply the same grease on the impeller? Like a thin light layer.

[Testlab]

Do you mean on the drive shaft or where the vanes fit into the pump housing? A small dab of lithium based grease on the shaft or some "No Seize" should be OK. If you want to grease the inside of the pump housing then a silicon based grease would do the job but whatever you use there won't last long (I have never used anything in the pump housing).

To make it easier to fit the new impellor, tighten a cable tie around it with the vanes collapsed in the correct direction, then when partially installed, cut the tie and push the impellor home. I use this technique on the raw water pumps in my cruiser as its all done by feel (I am waiting for stem cell technology to offer eyeballs on stalks and gibbon like arms to simplify the job).

[The Incredible Hull]

Yer I meant both drive shaft and inside the pump housing, I'll pick up some No Seize.

I cleaned the fuel filter today, very glad to see it was already very clean.

Good idea with the cable tie. I saw some videos... the way they do it is just before pushing the pump housing down, twist the drive shaft in the correct direction, and push the housing down at the same time.

I'm still trying to source a place that sells the impeller in a kit with the gaskets, so far I've only found the impeller alone.

[GaryO]

Id check with the manufacturer in regards to adding any grease around the impeller. My concern would be a possible reaction with the rubber used in the impeller particulary using anything petroleum based.

As for any other bolts and parts removed id recomend never seize grease This stuff is fantastic, even on hot exhaust and turbo unit bolts.

[GaryO]

Just thinking a little more on the topic of greasing up the pump housing , ive come to the conclusion of zero grease regardless of type. My concern would be any sand that happens to be picked up while in shallow water would be trapped by the grease an cause premature wearing within the pump.

Gaz

[sydney south]

Just thinking a little more on the topic of greasing up the pump housing , ive come to the conclusion of zero grease regardless of type. My concern would be any sand that happens to be picked up while in shallow water would be trapped by the grease an cause premature wearing within the pump.

Gaz

Yes, My thoughts as well.