dogbox Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Yamaha 115 Saltwater Series 2007 6E5 blue smoke on start up Hi guys just asking for advise on what the problem maybe, Cold start seems to take more cranking than when hot and blows I think too much blue smoke once started. When trolling the smelly fumes fill the boat making it uncomfortable, last week I trolled 40km distance along the coast off botany nth and dropped two cylinders I think from fouled plugs, on the run home it later cleared the and we where back a full operation. Yesterday while out fishing there appears to be to much blue smoke on hot start up now as well. All other engine operations seem fine. Can any one give a clue as to what the problem I maybe developing. Dogbox Edited January 12, 2014 by dogbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin01 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Maybe simply over oiling , would explain all the symptoms. Cheers Marlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paikea Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Doesn't that motor have a separate oil reservoir that is supposed to inject the correct amount of oil? If it is you need to get a service centre to do a diagnostics check to see if the injection setting may be out. Cheers Paikea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Great thanks I had the Carbs overhauled in March 2013 due to a long cranking to get started when cold. maybe they haven't set the oil injection correctly It has two oil storages on the deck and one under the engine hood. thanks guys Dog Box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testlab Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 There is variable ratio oil mixing in those engines. My guess is the oil metering is not working and it's over oiling at low revs, hence the plug fouling and thus hard starting and excessive smoke. There is no check you can do yourself and I strongly suggest taking it to a Yamaha dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Today I have taken the boat to a dealer Some what disappointed though the dealer blamed the outboard oil I'm using and wanted to sell me his over priced brand oil, I have used the same oil for 5 years without an issue. while I am aware oils ant all equal I am aware of other brands offering the same protection at a lower price. Ill let you know the result. Dogbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boat Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Going from cheap mineral based oil to high tech 100% synthetic oil makes a huge difference in the amount of blue smoke you will see on a carby engine especially on start up. Of course make sure the rod is correctly adjusted helps too, but that is where experience comes in. Cheers, Huey. Edited January 13, 2014 by Huey @ Huett Marine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi Guys here is an update I have the boat back at home after the dealer refused to work on the motor on the following basis. I don't use Yamalube 2 stroke oil He wanted to pull the heads and sump off to check the bore and check the anode inside the crank case! What? I said NO THE COMPRESSION TEST RESULTS WAS GOOD AS NEW ENGINE So because I wouldn't give free access to do whatever he refused to work on the boat after five days in the shop. When I went to collect the boat I spoke to the actual mechanic who looked at the boat for 30minutes written job card, he said, the carbie settings where out something to do with linkages and the fly wheel timing, Im not sure how the fly wheel is timed to the carbie? and this would have an affect on the mixtures but the oil injector could be adjusted to suite carbie settings. it was fixable. When I told him what I had been told he didn't have to much to say after that. What a waste of time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As for Yamalube this web link may surprise those who a have a belief only to use one brand of oil http://www.nmma.org/certification/certification/oil/tc-w3.aspx Who do you think makes Yamalube? What a waste of time DogBox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testlab Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Some of them get very narky when the owner knows more than where to put the fuel and how to turn the key, however you really do need to check those internal anodes. I am not familiar with setting the metering on Yammies and it's something I'd hate to get wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the advise, I will put together a winter maintenance plan of checks. Last night i downloaded the engine manual so I could get a better understanding of things. This morning I went over the engine checking the points that where explained to me by the dealer as out of adjustment. To my surprise those adjustments had not been tampered with and still had the pink paint on them from the factory. I went looking further finding nothing out of the ordinary as per the manual. When I looked at the oil injector something didn't look right. The injector arm was not sitting in the full return position as per the manual but a position I say was for about 1400rpm. I disconnected the arm from the injector and discovered the plastic connector was broken where it screws onto the thread of the rod. I also discovered that if the rod ever should come off the injector by the force of a spring will move into full rich position, its a fail safe design. I went down to see my usual marine mechanic with pictures, and yes after a convocation he is convinced its the cause of the extra smoking at start Problem has been solved My I say I am very disappointed in the dealer and there conduct some what, I have looked for Yamaha office number to voice my disappointment but can not find any number on the internet. If anyone has it could they forward it on please. As for the Yamalube issue by the dealer the manual says that you must us AN OIL 2 STROKE MOTOR OIL WITH APROVED TC-W3. The web site I posted lists all oils with TC-W3 all suitable for this engine. DogBox Edited January 18, 2014 by dogbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggs Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 yammalube is a reasonable oil I use it in my Johnson smokes less then some of the cheaper ones or out right rubbish like gulf western for example not all tc-w3 burn the same or smell the same $40 for 4l is not expensive for oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Thanks Obey1 yar think ill do the same, I'm going put a little tie wire on the new one and lock tight on the nut. Over tightening the nut against that plastic peace would have to put unnecessary stress on the design of the connecter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Juggs just looking to save some cash I agree with smell and burn, I'm looking at the entire cost of running my boat, at the moment its costing me a fortune, but I love boating and fishing. Dogbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggs Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 how many litres are you using per trip ? I think using a non manufacturers oil is false economy in the long run. what speed were you trolling at ? any carbed old tech 2 stroke will foul plugs trolling for longer then 30-60 minsmy Johnson would do this every 30 mins when down rigging but the guy I bought it off had cheap gulf western in in the tankswitched to yamma lube and get double that time when trolling at 6knts they don't foul at all now just saying trying to save $15 when your already spending hundreds is false economyand one day those plugs wont recover and its a bitch to replace them out at sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I've always used Mobil out board plus for 5 years buy it by the 20ltr drum @ about $120 was last time I paid I've never had plug issues when trolling my current issues with fouling plugs is a result of broken plastic linkage on the oil injector causing over rich fuel/oil mixture I do remember in the old days when Castrol engine oils where gumming up engines and blowing them up, I'm aware of few brands to stay clear of. Your right it can be a case of false economy. Dogbox Edited January 18, 2014 by dogbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky mark Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the heads up, I've got a 2000 model and have had no dramas with oiling (or anything much else) but will have a look at the part and maybe a bit of cable tie magic as well. Regarding oil I used yammalube for ages and I don't think its especially good, very smoky at cold start and according to a number of yank websites it causes excessive carbon deposits. Whatever the pros and cons of different TC-W3 graded oils anyone saying they refuse to work on the motor because Yammalube isn't used is a twit IMHO, neither the operations manual nor guarantee states this anywhere to my knowledge. I switched to Castrol and the smoking at cold starts has definitely reduced. I downrig at 700rpms for a couple of hours and she gets a bit grumbly now and again but certainly no worse than in the yammalube days. I think making sure your carbies are set up just right and that you have fairly fresh plugs is much more important for a relatively smooth idle than the brand of oil. Mind you a carbie two stroke is never going to idle smoothly for a long time, it just isn't something they are good at. Unfortunately they are very reliable so I never get the excuse to look at upgrading... Edited January 20, 2014 by Marky Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Thanks Mark The dealer was a twit and ill give Castrol give next time I'm out Dogbox Edited January 21, 2014 by dogbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VViCKiD Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Just a quick question, I have a Salt water series 115HP 2 stroke as well.Just wondering, I've noticed that if I stay in one spot for some time (like an hour or so), the motor doesn't start instantly. I would need to lift the fast idle to get it started. How much smoke is considered too much smoke on start up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky mark Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Just a quick question, I have a Salt water series 115HP 2 stroke as well. Just wondering, I've noticed that if I stay in one spot for some time (like an hour or so), the motor doesn't start instantly. I would need to lift the fast idle to get it started. How much smoke is considered too much smoke on start up ? Yeah, mine's the same with the starting. I think once they cool down a bit they like a touch of gas. I usually don't get a lot of smoke aside from first start of the day, Yammalube used to create a cloud, now with non-Yamaha oil its a bit better. I understand, as Heuy@Huett mentioned, that 100% synthetic oil will definitely result in a lot less oil. But fully 100% synth is frighteningly expensive (think $20 - $ 25 per litre). I found a decent aftermarket TC-W3 oil is a reasonable compromise, I have been using Castrol because its easy to buy but I am sure Mobil would be fine as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Thanks for the call today WiCiKiD hope it was helpful, if you resolve your blue smoke issue let me know. Mark, my mechanic said that if the engine sits for awhile then the fuel in the carby reduces being a hydrocarbon (Petrol) evaporates leaving an oily residue especially during this hot summer we are having causing a rich oil/fuel ratio on cold start. if you have to pump the fuel blub on lots before a cold start then it could be an indicator of how much petrol has been lost in the carby bowl; Blue smoke on cold start. The more this thread goes on the more I question out board oil, I guess if the your out board oil works for you then use it, ill continue to use Mobile Out Board plus its been good for me. Dogbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VViCKiD Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Thnaks for the call dogbox. I learnt a whole heap through that chat.I forgot to mention this morning that there is some kind of chute (related to the choke some how) that is supposed to remain closed. When its not closed properly, the fuel air mixture isn't right and it can be a real pain to start when the outboard has been sitting. Mine was previously adjusted by independent outboards and that fixed the problem for me before. Now I suspsect it may be my sparkies. I'll post up some pics when I get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aussie007 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 VViCKiD try starting your own thread mate its getting confusing for me and surely other people when u jump in with your own questiions in someone elses thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky mark Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 VViCKiD try starting your own thread mate its getting confusing for me and surely other people when u jump in with your own questiions in someone elses thread ??? He has the same symptoms and is troubleshooting, the rest of us with the same outboard are watching and learning, not really sure what the problem is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 Hi guys Went out on Sunday since I replaced the part on the oil injector. I can report that the engine ran like new. Started right away, near no smoke on start up, trolled for 40km and never missed. I travelled 87km from the bay to FAD and elsewhere at all speeds The oil usage used make more sense with the 95 octane use for the day I can confirm this fault has been resolved without the expense dealer suggestions, Dealer your BUSTED. Dogbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aussie007 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Hi guys Went out on Sunday since I replaced the part on the oil injector. I can report that the engine ran like new. Started right away, near no smoke on start up, trolled for 40km and never missed. I travelled 87km from the bay to FAD and elsewhere at all speeds The oil usage used make more sense with the 95 octane use for the day I can confirm this fault has been resolved without the expense dealer suggestions, Dealer your BUSTED. Dogbox dogbox, any idea on how much fuel your 115 used for that trip? a mate has a yamaha 115 first trip out it absolutely smashed the fuel but a few trips later it only used something like 8 litres the whole day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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