Catching salmon over rocks on 12lb

[Mike89]

Hi Fishraiders - first post here so excited to have some input from you guys!

I've gotten a bit fish-crazy in recent months, putting in many hours going out and trying to catch some fish. I've experimented with some new rigs and styles that I'd never used as a kid, fiddling with hooks and lines and have recently settled on targeting Australian salmon that school with some regularity at an estuary bay spot I fish.

I've been targeting them over a cliff spot where it is easy to lose fish around a bend and difficult to get down to a safe spot to land fish (losing fish often!). I'm starting to wonder if it's worth trying another spot in the same water. I'm land-based also so options are limited.

I sight these guys often and landed only one using a pencil float and a 60lb trace just short of a metre. Fluked it with such a heavy trace I think but have now been using the same technique with a 3-4kg fibreglass shimano telescopic cheapo, sedona 1000 with 100m of 20lb braid (backed to mono) and 12lb sunline leader (nice and thin). I find it hard to get the salmon to strike on thicker lines (black magic).

Just ordered an Okuma graphite 7' telescopic (prefer these for fish to 3kg just for ease of carry but any opinion on using telescopic would be welcome also) for the job and might upgrade the reel also. Thinking 2000-3000 but don't really have much knowledge so hoping to get some advice here.

As experience is limited for me both with this species and fishing generally I was wondering if I could get some advice from the fishos here on how best to go about landing them?

There is another area that I can get them sometimes but in order to land the fish you might have to pull them up by the line. On a 12lb line with a fish still kicking this might be a good way to lose a fish!

I've lost about 6 or more good fish recently in this area, at least 3 I know for sure were nice 2kg+ salmon (one snapped the line right in close before my eyes!). Snapped hooks, broken lines, rock snags. Do I use a stronger leader (thinking sunline 20lb) or do I need something even heavier duty?

Any advice on how to play these guys too would be a great help!

Happy to post a pic of the one bugger I did manage to land if any interest.

Thanks guys !

Edited July 6, 2015 by Mike89

[Guest 4myson]

I would definitely not be using anything less than 20lb leader especially around rocks . Give JINKAI leaders a try it's very soft & easy to tie . I get regular hook ups of salmon beach fishing & I run a 40lb leader in case of something bigger hooks up . The salmon don't seem to be put off by the thicker trace .

[Camo1808]

Hey mate first of all welcome to fishraider!! Fantastic forum with wealths of knowledge and noone is hesitant to help.

Secondly i am with 4myson here and i regurlarly fish for salmon off the beach with 45lb leader and have even caught bycatch of bream and small trevally on gang hooks. Yeah go figure hey haha. But we just incase you get that od stonker or even a nice jewie or something. Keep in mind you need match it to the areas fished rod and reel combo and bait or lures. I havw caught my pb salmon on 72cm on 11lb braid and 10lb leader haha so Obviously each to their own and i am open to hearing others opinions. Good luck with it mate.

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[Guest no one]

You're post basically answers itself. You're using a 12lb leader and snapping it - use a heavier leader!

If you're dead set on using a 12lb leader off the rocks 2 things are pretty much guaranteed to happen:

1 you'lll lose fish when lifting them up the rocks

2 you'll lose fish when playing them near the rocks

So if you're set on using 12lb time to find a new spot!

I'm not saying you're going to lose every fish... but certainly you are making it hard on yourself.

[Mike89]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I'm just trying to figure everything out as I hear very different things from different people, particularly on whether to use a light leader or not. Remember reading "go light - you'll get more fish, but you'll lose more too" somewhere and was wondering if this might be it?

I've been playing with the 12lb and the guy told me it was more than enough when I told him I was targeting salmon!

Going for 20lb rock stuff and maybe something heavier. I'm fishing them in calmer water, they're spooked easily and I haven't had much success with heavier leaders and thought that the hook-ups I got on the 12lb might be because of the lighter leader. Will give the tough 20lb a go and let you know how it goes.

So it's not just me losing the fish then?

Thanks for the advice!

Cheers

Edited July 7, 2015 by Mike89

[Guest no one]

So it's not just me losing the fish then?

Thanks for the advice!

Cheers

Everyone loses fish bro, and everyone has days where you lose more than you catch. But if you're not learning why you're losing them then you'd be in a vast minority.

Just think about the weight you're trying to lift up a cliff face, where the fish could have easily weakened the line at any point on the rocks or on its gills.

The reason people go heavier leaders is due to this, and teeth! The last meter of line is pretty much the most important!

[Mike89]

I see - thanks! Hopefully won't have too many more bust offs. It's a difficult area to land fish but wow there are some big ones that come past that can be great fun to sight fish. Not giving up yet!

I'll get out there again probably this weekend when I get the new rod and leader. Picked up a nice reel (Sahara) yesterday and spooled with some 25lb braid so looking forward to it.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Mike89

[Guest no one]

Good Luck - Keep an eye on that swell if you go on Sunday...

Also you could invest in a drop net which you could haul the fish up in, takes some practice but is a solution to your issue!

[Novicefisherman]

Get a 9 - 12 ft rod depending on personal preference for fishing the rock ledges. It would be worth getting a few metal lures to chase salmon. 20 - 25lb leader.

[ambrose607]

Which rod would be best suited for this. Fibre glass or carbon fiber?

[Yowie]

Does not matter if you are using 20lb line with a 12lb trace, you are effectively using 12lb line. The thinnest line is your breaking strain.

If your hooks are breaking, you will need to upgrade to a 2X or 3X stronger hook than standard. Could also be that the quality of the hooks is not good, the cheap ones are made from cheap and brittle steel, and easily break.

[Guest no one]

Breaking strain also isnt ranked to the weight of the fish, it's ranked to the power of the fish.

[Mike89]

Breaking strain also isnt ranked to the weight of the fish, it's ranked to the power of the fish.

Thanks! I see - that's what I always thought but no one had clarified this for me. It seems to make sense - a strong fish should be able to quickly exert a strong force greater than its own weight, right?

I've since switched to FC Rock 20lb - it's great stuff and should handle the job but alas the salmon have since shied off the bite and I haven't had a hookup. Should be able to get one soon!

Cheers

Edited August 2, 2015 by Mike89

[Guest Guest123456789]

How long is your shock leader? One of the mistakes I made was having a shock leader too short. What happens is your sinker can be on the sea floor and 1 metre or so up your main line is actually resting on a rock. If you have a long shock leader its ok but if it's short than the braid will snap on the rock when you wind your line in.

Personally I like the shock leader to be as close to my reel (without going through the bail arm) as possible. For a longer rod this should give you about 3 metres which is plenty.

I run 10lbs braid to 10lbs leader on the rocks for bream, flathead and trevally. I could use this for tailor/sambos as well but would probably get a few bust offs. For tailor and salmon i use 20lbs braid and 20lbs leader, not had a bust off and good hook up rate. Bear in mind a pay top dollar for quality leaders, if you wanna spend less than maybe go a bit heavier.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Guest123456789

[Mike89]

How long is your shock leader? One of the mistakes I made was having a shock leader too short. What happens is your sinker can be on the sea floor and 1 metre or so up your main line is actually resting on a rock. If you have a long shock leader its ok but if it's short than the braid will snap on the rock when you wind your line in.

Personally I like the shock leader to be as close to my reel (without going through the bail arm) as possible. For a longer rod this should give you about 3 metres which is plenty.

I run 10lbs braid to 10lbs leader on the rocks for bream, flathead and trevally. I could use this for tailor/sambos as well but would probably get a few bust offs. For tailor and salmon i use 20lbs braid and 20lbs leader, not had a bust off and good hook up rate. Bear in mind a pay top dollar for quality leaders, if you wanna spend less than maybe go a bit heavier.

I'm not 100% on exactly what a shock leader is? I usually run a fluoro leader about 2.5 or 3 x the rod length. So for a 6.5 or 7ft rod it will go well into the reel, but with a slim join knot I don't have problems casting. Is this what people mean by a shock leader?

I see what you mean by this though - I was experiencing something similar. At the time I was using a large stem float with about a metre of trace and a split shot about 30cm from the hook. Now things have been a bit quiet and I haven't caught anything in a while I can say I was getting a fantastic hookup rate with this set up - but I still got busted off every one of the salmon.

I had a heartbreaking moment one morning where I had finally pulled one right in to where I could see him and confirm that he was in fact what I was trying for - a nice Australian salmon - only to have him shake the hook at the surface and swim off. Caught two nice bream that morning and still went home disappointed! With what I've been catching lately (zip) I really should have been more happy with that.

One of the problems was like you were saying - my braid was getting caught on the rocks and either weakening and breaking on the reel in or snagging at the float. I lost a lot of floats. This was because I was fishing down from a cliff and the wind would slowly drive slack line into the snags. It is a really snaggy spot.

As for the setup I'm using - a light 6.5ft telescopic rod and a 2500 or 1000 reel. I'm using 20lb braid with 20lb Sunline FC Rock. I was using 12lb Sunline FC (plain stuff) and 12lb Black Magic previously, and use the 12lb stuff for bream, flathead and trevally. I've heard these brands and products are good. The braid is also Sunline. Would you recommend another brand I could try?

Recently bought a new set-up - 7ft Ugly Stik with a 3000 Shimano, 25lb braid and the FC Rock 20lb leader. A few people in the stores have suggested that this is overkill or that the rod and reel are a bit light for the line I'm using - what do you think? Haven't caught a fish with it yet.

Lately when I've hooked up with a decent trevally the fish always manages to shake the hook. Is this about not putting enough pressure on the line or letting the fish come in still fighting or just bad luck?

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

[Guest Guest123456789]

I mean wind on leader (connecting braid to fluro from reel to swivel).

Black Magic is a very good fluro. Personally I prefer samaki diamond fc - it has crazy abrasion resistance.

25lbs braid seems heavy for a 3000 real. That size line for the rocks or beach can catch any size fish except maybe a marlin but your reel is probably too small (normally a 6000 + reel as it has equal matched drag and big gears for 25lbs fishing). The 7 foot ugly stick and 3000 real combo is a perfect fit for bream/flathead/trevally/luderick fishing. I'd spool it with 125 metres of 6 to 12lbs braid (top shot) and match it with 10 to 14lbs black magic fluro. You're leader should never be lighter than your main line (eg don't out 10lbs fluro on 12lbs braid) as your line is basically 10lbs anyway you just get less casting distance. Also use prawns or half pilchards (coles raw peeled prawns are dynamite and cheaper!). Use a 0 to 2 ball sinker (depending on conditions and let it run to the hook). A swivel is optional. Hook size probably size 1 (not 1/0) for the prawn and 2/0 for the half pilchard. Try and present the bait naturally and ensure enough exposed hook.Choose a spot from the rocks where the water is deep and drop of from a rock ledge. Deeper water is better as fish are less visible on a clear day which means less risk from birds which means they feed more freely and you're not limited to dawn/dusk. You need some current (opposing currents are a bait food goldmine for fish). You need some rocks or weed but also a good deal of sand where you can lay your bait (too much rock and you'll just get cods).

If you wanna use your ugly stick for both bream AND salmon spool up 12lbs braid and 12lbs leader. You'll need to adjust the drag so the big boys don't bust you off.

You're losing fish on close because of technique (probably). You need to pump and wind when reeling them in, keeping tension on the line at ALL times. Don't wind against the drag either or you'll get line twist.

Good luck mate, I know it's frustrating when you're stsrting out. I took me countless sessions and 18 months before I cracked it. I also know how annoying it is getting fed bull dust information from people in tackle shops and other anglers. PM me if you want my mobile number, happy to have a chat if that helps. Next week I'm on holidays and at the snow (woohoo!).

Edited August 7, 2015 by Guest123456789

[Mike89]

Sorry - had to dig this topic out to find your reply.

Thanks a bunch for your advice Luke - it's a huge help. You're right - there is so much rubbish info out there and people telling you this and that.

I think with what you've said I'll unspool the 25lb stuff and get some 10lb braid on the 3000 reel.

I went out to the beaches with a bloke on Friday who showed me a bit about targeting salmon and tailor in the surf. It seems they're a much safer bet there. The hooks he was using and his technique were a hell of a lot different to what I've been trying to do at the spot I was chasing them in June.

It was a similar rig to that you're describing but with a dropped star sinker on a clip above the swivel. With the option of using a swivel, are you talking about running a swivel, and then a running sinker onto a hook? Or above the swivel?

What kind of hook? We were using large gang hooks. I was misled initially because the one I did catch was on a tiny long shank - size 10 or 12. I guess that's beginner's luck?

You're absolutely right about my technique too. I was either giving them too much line or pulling them straight in and up to the water where they could shake the hook.

Getting better now. Pulled a couple of trevally on Sunday morning and really had that 'pump and wind' technique in mind the whole time I was reeling them in, and making sure to stop reeling and let him pull the line down when they would get close to the surface.

Winding in nice sized trev is great fun.

How was the snow?

Edited August 17, 2015 by Mike89

[Guest Guest123456789]

Hi Mike,

You're most welcome mate. Good to hear you're catchimg a few and have a mentor who can help show you a few tricks. Trevally are my second favourite fish behind flathead. My wife and son LOVE trevally sashimi.

The rig I described was for bream, trevally,flathead from the rocks. There is no swivel, a ball sinker runs straight to the hook. You get less snags that way and also because the sinker is light it floats around the was a bit more naturally. I use a 4/0 hook and hook a half pilchard laterally above the spine (in the blue section). Some people use a 1/0 hook and hook it differently. You'll need to experiment and work out what's best for you. Personally I like octopus hooks.the main considerations when selecting a hook size is what size is the bait I'm using, will the bait look natural in the water, will it hold onto my hook when I cast it, is enough hook exposed to hook the fish when it strikes.

Targeting salmon/tailor from the beach is a completely different set up. Sounds like your mate had it right, have a look at the photo below this is what I use. Instead of a split shot sinker you could use just a float stop, rubber band or another swivel. Gang hook size is usually 3/0 to 5/0 for pilchards (larger Phillies need larger hooks).

Snow was good mate. Met a bloke who stays on Jindabyne lake and fishes for trout after boarding, I'm catching up with him next year.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Guest123456789

[Mike89]

Nice - glad to hear you had a good time but no fishing there for you then? My mum has just been in Jindabyne and said it was great. I'd love to chase a few freshwater species down that way when I get the time!

Thanks for the diagram! I never thought of chucking a small split shot above the slider clip to stop it from running up to the Albright.

The trevally are at my local haunts in droves now. I pulled a PB on Thursday, 38cm.

I just sliced him up as sashimi for an appetiser before dinner. You're right, bloody marvellous with a bit of soy sauce and wasabi. I didn't know raw fish could taste so good!