Knife Sharpening

[fragmeister]

Hi Raiders,

I have to say that I am about as good at sharpening knives as I am at sharpening drill bits.... and that's hopeless.

I have various knife sharpeners and they do a reasonable job but I would like to get the hang of sharpening on a stone for that ultimate edge but with me its hit and miss.

Any tips?

[abecedarian]

Good stones ranging from moderately course to fine (400 - 6000 or even 10000 grit for water stones), a leather strop to finish. Keep the angle constant and practice.

[SquidMarks]

Good stones ranging from moderately course to fine (400 - 6000 or even 10000 grit for water stones), a leather strop to finish. Keep the angle constant and practice.

Dont think he is sharpening a straight edge here, the 10000 will be more than enough for a kitchen knife.

Fragmeister,

i have been through the sharpening dilemma since i was a kid and picked up some really bad habbits along the way (monkey see monkey do... in this case its watching my father and other mentors who had no clue about sharpening knives and copying them thinking thats how its done!)

Those knife sharpening 'tools' which require you to pull your knife through will give you a temporary result (which is not that good) and will result in you taking material from the knife edge unnecessarily.

I am NOT a knife sharpening professional but, here are my tips (people feel free to add your 2c as well here)

1. Invest in 3 GOOD knives (throw away your 15 piece mediocre chopping block and get a chefs knife, paring knife and a carving knife) Good knives will hold their edge and will last you a lifetime. (i guess a filleting knife wont go astray either )

2.Invest in a QUALITY steel (honing tool) (i use Fdick 7500330 12" Dickoron Micro Steel) I use the steel 98% of the time when i sense my knives are not to my standard of sharpness (couple of passes and she is ready to shave hairs off your forearm)

3. Do not use ANY sharpening tool daily which removes material from knives (leaves metal filings or powder), you are wasting your knife away to sharpen a minute area of the blade! A honing tool will sort you out on a good knife (honing realigns the edge without removing material, think of straightening curled burr on the edge of your knife or reshaping a collapsed play dough pyramid so the top is pointy again... nothing removed, just realigned)

4. Invest in QUALITY STONES (i have naniwa stones ranging from 220 grit to 10,000 grit) i find i rarely use the 10,000 on kitchen knives any more, its minimal gain and the effort can be almost equal with a quality steel, if i had my way, i would buy a 3 stone kit consisting of 220, 1000 and 5000 grit.

I use the 220 to set a primary bevel on a stuffed/new knife and the 1000 and 500 to set and refine a secondary bevel.

Does the above require significant capital outlay? YES! will it mean that you will never work with a dull knife again in your kitchen? YES! Does this mean that you will be frustrated as hell when you go over to a mates and he gives you a 'sharp' knife to chop/prep some veggies? YOU BLOODY WELL BET YOUR GLUTEUS MAXIMUS YOU WILL!

So what do you do with stones and hones?

here is my rundown.

1. Set a primary bevel on a knife using the 220 stone

2. Set a secondary bevel using the 1000 stone

3. Further refine and polish the secondary bevel using the 5000 stone.

4. Run the knife edge down a wooden chopping block lightly (as if to cut the chopping block) this removes any burrs.

5. Run your knife over the steel

6. Done!

When you feel you knife getting blunt (assuming you didnt try chop stone, bone or metal with it and ruined your edge), lightly run a few passes over the steel and watch in amazement as the knife feels like you just spent 1/2 hr sharpening it (you may just need to use the steel for a month or so before needing to get the stones out again depending on a number of factors such as neglect, quality of knives and your sharpening experience)

Rinse and repeat until the steel no longer produces a sharper knife edge. Then, depending on the level of neglect, i would probably re define the secondary bevel (repeat steps 3-6) and if that does not work, go to step 2-6 or, in worst case scenario, you chipped/damaged the edge, you haveto grind away using the 220 stone to produce a new primary bevel.

How do you use the stones and steel? Again.. no monkey see monkey do, your not bruce lee and you dont need to wave the knife and steel around at 1000000000 mph, slow, steady light strokes (not much pressure at all on the steel, remember, your not grinding with the steel so you dont need force).

As for the stones, well that kind of needs a new topic and its getting late. You will hear stories about correct angles and you will freak out if your off by 2 degrees when using stones but in reality, you quickly learn in an afternoon what angles on the stone equate to a good edge.. its just trial and error.

Let me know if anything needs further explaining.

[Guest no one]

Great post Squid!!

[amkr]

Solid post squid.

I've got a pricey set of Damascus steel kitchen knives that I've slowly acquired over the years.

When I purchased them I got some good tips about how to look after them and keep them sharp.

1) Rinse directly after using - acids from fruits and vegetables can eat away at the blades edge and blunt it, rinse it under the tap after you've cut anything. You can then wash it later without giving the acid time to do its thing.

2) Hone almost every second use - the steel doesn't sharpen a knife, it just takes the burrs and deformities away from the edge - it wont actually put an edge on a knife. Don't underestimate a good hone, it can make a used knife feel new again.

3) Avoid electric knife sharpeners like the plague - each knifes edge is set at a certain angle (one of mine is right handed and has a different edge on the right and left side of the blade) electric sharpeners struggle with different angles and a lot of the time you end up trying to put a new edge on the knife at a different angle.

I've had my 2 larger knives for about 4 years now, they are only just starting to get to the point where they need to be sharpened on stones. Still cut 10x better than a coles knife even at their bluntest.

I'm not confident enough to bust out the stones and sharpen mine myself, I'll take them to a shop in Rosebery and hand over $20

[Witha]

Awesome post squid.

I've always been a bit OCD with my knives, to the extent that I've taken a steel to my mates place to fix their "sharp" knives. I'm a complete dunce with a stone when it comes to curved blades and got frustrated trying to get my zenelli fillet knife up to scratch, ended up getting a Lansky sharpening system which basically is a guide system with rods to keep the angle of the edge consistent. Its worked so far

Good quality knife steel is the next key factor for me. I've got some softer knives that will take an edge well but won't hold it, but my kitchen knives hold the edge once you get it there.

Less is more when it comes to sharpening for me, less pressure fewer strops and less metal removed. Stay away from diamond hones and the sharpeners where you run the blade through them. Practice practice practice on knives you won't regret ruining [emoji14]

[fragmeister]

Thanks Squid,

That's a very comprehensive reply. Thanks for taking the time to answer in so much detail.

Like many others I get the kitchen knives professionally sharpened as I wouldn't risk it wrecking them so I just use the steel on them to keep them honed and get them sharpened periodically. I think I will invest in a better quality steel after reading your post.

The sharpening tools I mentioned are just for my general fishing knives which are used and abused in general although I can see from your post that I need a better strategy for these too. What would you recommend for them... anything different?

Cheers

Jim

[SquidMarks]

Yep tailor,

I also have a Damascus steel set and give them a hand wash after every use (NEVER in the dishwasher). I didnt want to go in too much depth regarding knife choices and care, i didnt want to scare other prospective readers into thinking that this is only a hardcore knife owners post.

Definitley agree on honing often (if im carving up a whole rack of beef scotch then i might give the knife a quick hone half way through), it really depends on the user and what an acceptable edge is.

Again, 100% agree, electric knife sharpeners have been made by the devil.

Witha,

I used to take my tools to my parents and do them a favour, but i would come back in two days and realise that my dad was using his chefs knife as a cleaver to hack through large fish bones... so i stopped sharpening them as it became very very frustrating....

Honestly, i remember first reaing about honing and sharpening stones and thought 'who can be bothered?' ut once you get used to a standard its hard to get back to chopping onions etc with what feels like pushing a butter knife through them.

[SquidMarks]

No problemo Fragmeister.

Knives which i abuse dont really get much attention and i dont pay a whole lot for them because realistically, you wont be honing your fishing knives. In these scenarios i tend to buy cheaper knives and go nuts (such as cracking open oysters and opening cunjie).

While i do use the coarser sharpening stones and finish off with a 'good enough to chop bait and fish frames' edge i dont invest a whole lot of time in sharpening a knife for said purpose because its just counter productive.

Keep a cheap knife with the realisation that it will have a short and abused lifespan and be willing to part with it after a couple of years (or sooner, depending on use). I loathe to recommend it but i guess you could in these scenarios try use those gadget knife sharpeners.....

In terms of cheap knife brand recommendations... go to your local Asian supermarket and have a look at kiwi brand knives (wooden handles). they are a couple of bucks each and come with a (for the price) decent edge. They also take an edge easily but go blnt quickly too. The point is, minimal outlay for something which you know you will use and abuse.

[SquidMarks]

Just one last thing regarding paying for knife sharpening, i understand the anxiousness of taking a knife to a stone but in reality, theres not too much that can go wrong if you practice on a cheaper knife. (again, its not about speed or immense pressure on the stone).

And if you are taking the knife to get it sharpened just because a hone no longer keeps its edge then there isnt much to sharpen (stone wise) anyway... 15 minutes per knife maximum when you are just beginning (refer to my first post.. only steps 3-6 are really being performed by the bloke who is sharpening your knife)

Those $20 knife sharpening sessions add up to a nice set of sharpening stones......

[The Incredible Hull]

Hi Raiders,

I have to say that I am about as good at sharpening knives as I am at sharpening drill bits.... and that's hopeless.

I have various knife sharpeners and they do a reasonable job but I would like to get the hang of sharpening on a stone for that ultimate edge but with me its hit and miss.

Any tips?

I'm in the same boat mate, I try to sharpen knives and they only stay sharp for 1 use lol

My in laws are both butchers, I get my mum in law to sharpen my knives for me whenever she comes over. She uses the exact same tools I use, except when she does it, not only is it razor sharp but it stays that way for at least the next 20 uses, as opposed to my 1 use!

I noticed her technique. The sharpening tool we use, it one of those sword looking type ones. When I was sharpening, I was putting too little of an angle, almost parrallel to the sharpening tool. I notice when my in law does it, its more like 60 deg angle, much more upright.

Try that and see if it works for you.

[Fab1]

There's a gazillion methods of sharpening knives guys and all of them work in "skilled"hands.

If you look at that File knife I posted in the workshop that file was 5mm thick and I put that bevel on it by just using a file,sandpaper and a norton combination stone followed by a homemade stropping.

That knife is as sharp as heck and slices tomatoes,onions etc like there not there let alone shave hairs,slice paper etc.

I got that edge by maintaining consistent pressure,angles and years if practice sharpening everything from shovels,chisels,pruners,axes etc.

Yes I sharpen everything.

I'm at work at the moment and will post my tips later on when i get home on how I free hand sharpen that apparently has helped out family and friends that where in the same boat as you guys.

Cheers.

[Cammo27]

To find the angle of your edge place blade on your finger nail and move back and forth while raising the angle, when blade grips nail take note of angle. The best advise I can give is to consult your local butcher. 2 min with butcher and you will be half way there. I learnt from my father (butcher) when I was a kid. It's very easy if you are shown the correct technique . Best of luck

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[kahleong]

A bit OT but related i guess.

My knife needs are mainly related to fishing.

Recently invested in a japanese deba knife.

They are single beveled and require a bit of getting used to as compared to the flexible filet knifes I use to use.

Invested in a 1000 grit whetstone and have been sharping it when I need to.

Have attached some related videos for more information.

Fileting work on a kingy

How to sharpen a deba knife

By the way, from the links you can find other videos from the same poster teach you different techniques on sharping using whetstones.

I find the knife pretty versatile as you can hack through bones, slice through fine bones and filet all using the same knife.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Edited October 14, 2015 by kahleong

[fragmeister]

Thanks for all your help on this boys.

I think I finally got the knack. I just wasn't getting the angle right.

Cheers

Jim

[stevefish]

What sort of coin do you guys spend on a knife?

[Guest no one]

What sort of coin do you guys spend on a knife?

$20 but I buy 3 or 4 a year

[Witha]

Depends on the usage. I use dive knives (not the blunt tip ones) for most of my saltwater duties as they're hardy. 40 bucks and lasted for years.

Filleting / kitchen different story

[Rock&Beach]

Some great info guys especially Squid. I follow the same principles. I use the steel often just a couple of laps to clean them up. Every couple of months they get the stone. I bought a good set of butchers knives that I have had since 18 so nearly 30 years and they are still great. Added a couple of decent cook's knives and a good steel to make the set

For fishing I have a decent filtering knife other than that I buy $20 specials for cutting bait rock sand and everything else they do. They get a sharpen every couple of outings and a good rinse every outing to keep the red stain away. I normally keep them wrapped in an oil rag as they are cheaper steel.

As Squid said going to friends places and holiday parks will drive you nuts to use blunt knives. I have even trained my wife to pack the good knives when we go away just in case. I always check that they are packed when we leave.

Good luck.

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