Koalaboi Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hi, At the risk of opening a can of worms I think that a discussion needs to be had on the release of fish with hooks still lodged in them. A news report of a turtle found in WA with fishing line coming from its mouth tells how it required surgery to remove the hook. The vets who performed the procedure said, " ..don't just cut the line and let it go because that turtle will die slowly. "Grab that turtle and take it straight to a vet clinic." (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-12/fish-hook-dislodged-from-turtle27s-stomach/6936860) It would be reasonable to assume the same would happen to fish. Leaving aside the vexed issue of cruelty here, (that has been knocked on the head by moderators before and the intent behind this post is not about that) it seems to me that a fish released with a hook still in it would become the prey of another fish and so on to the point that one hook could kill many fish. I don't know what research has been done on this and am asking Raiders if they know of any. We then have the problem of what to do with undersized fish which have been deeply hooked. Are there any regulations on this? If we are to conserve fish stocks then fishing ethics and regulation need to be based on research to get the best outcomes. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratchie Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 As you have pointed out, this post is not about general "catch and release" views. This topic will be locked if those views are posted. Scratchie mod team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fragmeister Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think this is a good topic to discuss because as fisherman we can come under pressure from other groups regarding our practices. I believe it is important for us to know the facts so we can deal rationally with anyone who may oppose fishing. Research on this is pretty slim but what has been done suggests a pretty high mortality rate from gill hooked or esophagus hooked fish. Remove the hook and, in some studies the mortality rate is quoted at nearly 90%. Leave it in and it closer to 35%. They also mention that hooks (depending on the type and whether its salt or fresh) are usually shed withing 6 - 10 weeks. As you are probably aware the use of circle hooks, flattened barbs and larger hooks all reduce the chance of deep hooking a fish as does a more active "rod in hand" technique rather than leaving a bait on a slack line for the fish to swallow right down before he knows he's hooked. One thing I will mention is that released fish whether they die or not go back into the eco system and are recycled. Overall, catch and release has a very positive impact on fisheries and while the mortality rate on deep hooked fish may be high the overall mortality rate is probably quite low. Here are some Google search results to take a look at. Its hard to find official data on this. http://fishandboat.com/images/pages/qa/fishing/catch_rel.htm http://www.nesportsman.com/articles/article11.shtml Cheers Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fragmeister Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 As you have pointed out, this post is not about general "catch and release" views. This topic will be locked if those views are posted. Scratchie mod team Sorry Scratchie, I was still typing when your post came through. Feel free to edit out anything that is inappropriate. I wouldn't want the post to be locked on my account. Cheers Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratchie Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Jim, your views are fine. Debate, personal opinions or discuss are fine, so long as they don't contravene site rules. We do not need to have the "why did you keep a 90cm flatty debate". Cheers scratchie!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amkr Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I feel bad when I pull up a fish and it's swallowed the hook. On the few occasions I've tried to unhook them they have all died, when I cut the line close and throw them back they always seem to swim off. They may die later but at least I can pretend they are going lead long and healthy lives when they go out of sight. If I pull up a fish that can't be unhooked now, I don't waste any time with measurements or photos or anything - I just cut the line and put it back - I figure it's stressed enough without me stuffing around with it. Even if it dies, it's feeding the other fish down there. So even if I feel bad about accidentally killing an undersized snapper, hundreds of those get munched on by larger fish daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameldownunder Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The material of the hook is also relevant. I don't think Stainless Steel hooks will dissolve, ever. I know of few places where they are banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquidMarks Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) I feel bad when I pull up a fish and it's swallowed the hook. On the few occasions I've tried to unhook them they have all died, when I cut the line close and throw them back they always seem to swim off. They may die later but at least I can pretend they are going lead long and healthy lives when they go out of sight. If I pull up a fish that can't be unhooked now, I don't waste any time with measurements or photos or anything - I just cut the line and put it back - I figure it's stressed enough without me stuffing around with it. Even if it dies, it's feeding the other fish down there. So even if I feel bad about accidentally killing an undersized snapper, hundreds of those get munched on by larger fish daily. Ditto, If i cant get the hook without resulting in the poor fish or mouth performing weird contortions then i cut the line as close as possible and release. As for hooks following the food chain (the fish with the hook getting eaten by another predator), With the use of high carbon hooks they tend to rust out fairly quickly in a marine environment so i dont think there will be too much collateral damage there. Which makes me wonder, why do we still have stainless steel hooks available for fishing (i understand there's a saving to be had because the hooks will last longer, but if we wanted to save money we would sell the boat and get our fish from the fishmonger). As for undersized fish being deeply hooked, the inherent problem of gut hooking an undersized mulloway has been discussed here before. They are known for their high mortality rate regarding catch and release, especially from being deep hooked but the law states that we must throw them back so we do. And we need to put on our conservation hats here, because if we did not throw these fish back then this excuse of 'a fish was deep hooked and would not have survived anyway' could be used to allow unscrupulous fishermen to keep their otherwise illegal catch. Edited November 12, 2015 by SquidMarks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen_f Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I feel bad when I pull up a fish and it's swallowed the hook. On the few occasions I've tried to unhook them they have all died, when I cut the line close and throw them back they always seem to swim off. They may die later but at least I can pretend they are going lead long and healthy lives when they go out of sight. If I pull up a fish that can't be unhooked now, I don't waste any time with measurements or photos or anything - I just cut the line and put it back - I figure it's stressed enough without me stuffing around with it. Even if it dies, it's feeding the other fish down there. So even if I feel bad about accidentally killing an undersized snapper, hundreds of those get munched on by larger fish daily. Whenever I pick up an undersized snapper that has swallowed the hook, I try to get it out only if there are fish eating birds around, if not then it get a snip near the hook and off they go. If they live, they swim off cheerfully, if they don't then the nearby birds get a quick feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalaboi Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. The issue for me comes down to undersized fish deeply hooked. They can't be kept but to release them with hooks left in them goes against the idea of managing a sustainable fishery. To be honest, I don't know which is the most ethical decision to take: a. cut the line, leave the hook inside the fish and then return it to the fishery and allow it to die a slow death and/or become a vector for future slow deaths as predators eat ailing fish b. tear/cut out the hook and return the carcass to the fishery..a fair option for mine c. as in (above and having killed the fish honour it by eating it...(philosophical disclaimer here: I reckon if you kill it it eat it and/or use it...unless a feral pest like foxes, goat, pigs, carp etc) also fair but open to abuse Whichever way, it needs to be supported by appropriate legislation and education. KB Edited November 13, 2015 by Koalaboi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquidMarks Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 i understand what you are saying koala, but it sill brings the discussion back to my point... " As for undersized fish being deeply hooked, the inherent problem of gut hooking an undersized mulloway has been discussed here before. They are known for their high mortality rate regarding catch and release, especially from being deep hooked but the law states that we must throw them back so we do. And we need to put on our conservation hats here, because if we did not throw these fish back then this excuse of 'a fish was deep hooked and would not have survived anyway' could be used to allow unscrupulous fishermen to keep their otherwise illegal catch. " Changing laws to allow fishermen to keep undersized fish because of gut hooking or poor recovery rates will lead to abuse of the system and this is why i believe we still must return all fish which are not legal to the water with as little damage as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellcorner Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The use of circle hooks, when bait fishing is meant to minimize this issue. I've only been using them for a short while, and although I haven't gut hooked a fish for a long time, they work ok. Gut hooking is usually caused by leaving the line unattended, which will give the fish the time to scoff the bait down, where as an attended line, the bite is generally felt, and a strike will usually follow. On a side note, I was on a friend's boat earlier in the year. An undersize Kingie was caught, and it had a hook and line still in its lip from a battle it had won previously. Naturally, we removed all terminal tackle, and released the fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalaboi Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 You're right Squidmarks about undersized fish being kept on dubious grounds. My concern too. My conservation hat tells me that throwing back a fish with a a hook in its guts means it's probably going to be swallowed by another fish. That's my problem. For mine, it would seem a better option to return it having cut out the hook. It may be dead is the only issue here but at least it won't kill more fish. I don't suppose there's an easy solution here unless Fisheries looks at the issue, gets some research done and provides a legislative framework around the issue. Thanks everyone for your thoughtful posts. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 My view is fairly simple. If it's deeply hooked I cut the line and let it swim off instead if injuring the fish further. At best it might be a coin flip if it lives or not, I'll let mother nature decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amkr Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 My conservation hat tells me that throwing back a fish with a a hook in its guts means it's probably going to be swallowed by another fish. That's my problem. For mine, it would seem a better option to return it having cut out the hook. It may be dead is the only issue here but at least it won't kill more fish. Look at the spikes and barbs on some of the fish they eat, a little hook probably wont do too much damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now