Advice for a "big fish" rod

[Aardvarking]

For ages I've been using a Shimano T-Curve 702 Xtra Light 2-4kg rod with a Penn Powerspin v2000 reel, and it is great for bream, flathead, whiting, bass etc. The problem is that I've wanted to get into fishing for some bigger stuff, (kingfish, jewfish, aussie salmon etc.) and I'm not sure it can handle it. When I used to go out on our boat I would use a $20 Sport Fisher rod from Kmart for big fish and it did the job reasonable well enough for that purpose. Don't get me wrong, it was an absolutely crappy rod, but when I was just dropping baits off a boat it didn't really matter. But now that I am mostly land based it is virtually unusable, because it has no casting distance and the reel tangles constantly. I'm looking to upgrade it to a multipurpose rod for those bigger species. I can't really justify having a different rod for every difference circumstance, so I just want a rod and reel that will be heavy duty enough to handle some stronger fish, and good for long distance casting with big baits, such as whole pilchards, live yellowtail and whole squid.

I really don't know much about fishing for game fish, and when I was trying to do some research I found a lot of conflicting information which confused me deeply. The two target species I want to catch and jewies and kingfish, and I assumed 20-30lb line was easily enough to handle that. However I then saw people saying you needed minimum 40lb line to catch bonito, and if I need that for bonito surely I would need even heavier line for kings? I then saw some people saying 15lb was enough for jewies, with others saying 80lb line was recommended. If I just wanted a setup that was good for anything from trevally to snapper to kings what should I use?

[savit]

Probably that was about leader (mono or fluoro line) which is usually used heavier rating  than the main line.

If you want some specific model suggestions then tell F/Raiders more where (rocks/beach/estuary/jetty) do you intend to fish  mostly and prefferably budget for a new combo.

[Aardvarking]

I guess my budget would be around 100-200 dollars. I'm not sure if that's a reasonable range, because pretty much all of my gear is stuff I've inherited from my dad.

I would use it mostly for jetty fishing, but also off rocks and off a kayak. I don't do any deep sea fishing or beach fishing, estuary fishing is mostly what I do.  

[DerekD]

Hi Aardvarking,

My response comes down to two schools of thought. Go hard or learn to play them. I own about 25 plus rods but probably do 80% of my fishing on two of them. A bream raider Finesse 2-4kg 7'6" 2 piece 3-12gm lure weight with 1500 Symetre and topped with 4lb PowerPro braid. The other is the Snapper Raider 5-8kg 7'6" 2 piece 15-45gm lure weight with a Shimano 4000 (I swap between Stradic and latest Sedonna) reel and 15lb braid all the way (300m no backing). I've picked up 12 kings so far this year. On the Snapper Raider 7 shore based with Slapstix lure and one was on the kayak trolling. The other 4 were at long reef on heavier gear. None legal but I have landed legal kings up to 80cm on this rod. I also picked up a 73cm mulloway a few weeks ago on the same rod. I use this rod both for lure and baits (yellowtail, squid) and it is stiff enough and light enough for me to work lures without getting stupidly tired. If you intend to use really big baits (whole salmon) then I would go a bit heavier - in my case my go to is a 6-10kg rod with a 4500 baitrunner reel and 20lb braid - on this gear my biggest mulloway was 104cm and absolutely no problem. I wouldn't waste my time with lures on this rod unless I am trolling.

I'm not sure how big the Bonito are that you are talking about but on good years when they have been in Sydney harbour I have had a lot of fun chasing them on the bream gear. It just takes a little longer.

Anyone can winch a fish in but in my personal opinion I'd rather go lighter with a better chance of hooking up more often and having a bigger buzz playing them.

BTW for the record - I'm not sponsored by Shimano but I have had a lot of joy fishing with their equipment.

Hope the above helps focus your thought process a little more.

Regards,

Derek

Edited July 31, 2017 by DerekD

[Aardvarking]

Thanks Derek, that's very helpful. The snapper raider sounds like a good idea, so I'll look into that. I'm also a big believer in the idea of fishing light, but a few weeks ago I lost the biggest fish of my life which snapped off 30lb, with very loose drag. I had a live yellowtail on, went to reel it in when the line when it went ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. It went on a run for a solid minute without stopping before the line gave in and snapped, at the reel of all places. I've never had line snap off at the reel, so I can only imagine what that fish was, it still haunts me to this day... Other than that I've never really had issues with breaking line, but I'm just curious what other people think, seeing I've never targeted these big fish before. In terms of the big baits I wouldn't use a whole salmon, more whole pilchards and live yakas. I don't think I'll use it much for lures, because the whole idea of this rod is to have as a secondary line, something to sit there waiting for bigger fish while I chuck some lures of my light gear.

[DerekD]

In the group of people I fish with we land between 1 in 2 and 1 in 3 of the kings we hook on this type of gear. As we fish from wharves it is the last minute runs into structure which gets us. The Salmon we rarely lose. We chase our jewfish elsewhere most often with big baits and we don't lose many of them.

If it is purely as a secondary line and a sleeper at that I'd be looking at a baitrunner reel with a 6-10kg rod of about 7 foot (in your case you can look at some of the fibreglass based rods (less expensive than graphite) but then spend more money on the reel.). I'd personally go 20lb braid but probably suggest 30lb for your scenario. Probably stating the obvious but not all the braids are the same. I've been fishing a German brand for years and have been very happy at the balance between strength, suppleness, durability and price.

Please consider that you are fishing a harbour with 1m plus kings, stingrays, sharks and some other fish you won't be able to stop. Don't sweat it. If you gear up for that scenario you likely won't get a fish very often which will test your gear. Your other option is start fishing so you only target big fish. I work with a guy that if I talk about a 60cm salmon he talks about live bait. He chases marlin off the rocks (I've seen the photos of the one he landed) but also has gone heavy on all his gear.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by DerekD

[Aardvarking]

I just noticed while looking through my dads old fishing gear that I have a Shimano Jewell 662 Barra Spin 5-10kg rod in there. Are they any good for this sort of fishing? The problem with it is that the guides are a bit messed up, a few of them are bent and one is missing the inner ring. I have a few old rods with this same affliction, including a Shimano Catano. is it worth fixing or is it cheaper just to get another rod?

[DerekD]

Most of the fishing shops can fix the guides but the tip is the cheapest to replace at about $10 to $15. Unless the rod has sentimental value I'd be looking at another rod.

[savit]

Guides are cheap from $1 to $5 (Fuji) in most places  + work (if required). I would try to fix it myself (plenty of youtube videos to give you an idea about the process) , If that does not work well - then invest in a new rod.

[Aardvarking]

Thanks Savit. I'll take the Shimano Jewel to a fishing shop, and if it costs too much to repair I'll invest in a new rod. And thanks Derek for all your help, that baitrunner reel sounds perfect.  I'm thinking of getting either the OC Spin or the D spin based on the prices and descriptions, but I'm not all that sure what the big differences are between them. 4000 seems like the perfect size, and I'll chuck some 20lb line on there. I know you suggested 30lb, but I prefer a lighter feel, it's just more fun that way

[xerotao]

I have the t curve 702 and will never let it go. I plan on rebuilding it with new grips, reel seat and finishing it off with fuji k guides

With the guides on your jewel, im more than happy to help you repair/replace them if needed.

I wont charge labour aslong as you provide materials (eg. guides and thread colour)

[DerekD]

I have two older Shimano Baitrunners which I have had for years and are still fishing strong and I don't see the need to update them. Once every few trips I give mine a wipe over with some Inox and they get a service every few years depending on how hard they have been fished. Just had a look at the specs for the two you mentioned and both should do you nicely.

Your big decision now will probably be working out if you want the 4000 or the 6000. The beauty of them is that you can check the fighting drag by hand beforehand and then switch over the baitrunner drag for when it is in the rod holder. Just remember to back both drags off at the end of each fishing session otherwise you will compress the drag washers over time.

[Aardvarking]

Upon a closer inspection of the Jewel it isn't as broken as I thought it was. One of the guides is missing the inner circle and another I'm not sure has a problem with it or not. All of the guides are relatively perpendicular with the rod, except one of the guides which is at about a 45 degree angle to the rod. I first thought this was a problem, but I don't see where it could have bent, so maybe that is how it is normally?

Image of the possible bent guide:

The broken guide:

Edited August 1, 2017 by Aardvarking

[PaddyT]

2 hours ago, Aardvarking said:

Thanks Savit. I'll take the Shimano Jewel to a fishing shop, and if it costs too much to repair I'll invest in a new rod. And thanks Derek for all your help, that baitrunner reel sounds perfect.  I'm thinking of getting either the OC Spin or the D spin based on the prices and descriptions, but I'm not all that sure what the big differences are between them. 4000 seems like the perfect size, and I'll chuck some 20lb line on there. I know you suggested 30lb, but I prefer a lighter feel, it's just more fun that way

Your a young fella with limited funds im guessing- its not hard to bind on a new guide- lots of Youtube videos out there- and you will save a heap

[xerotao]

No issues with straightening out a bent guide. But i would consider replacing the guide thats lost its insert

[Regan]

i would go 20lb j-braid, in the version that changes colour every 10m. i would then go a 4000 reel of some sort,

about the bonito you were talking about i have caught them on 10lb line and i know people that catch them on 4lb.

[Aardvarking]

I've been doing some research on the baitrunner reels but seeing a lot of conflicting reviews. Some people are saying they are great reels, others giving horror stories about them failing spectacularly, even with some people saying that the washers have melted with big fish. Looking into some other baitrunner style reels but I unfortunately can't afford a Thunnus. Are there any other reels with the baitrunner feature that don't spontaneously combust like the baitrunner 4000Ds seem to?

[Aardvarking]

The Okuma Avenger Baitrunner series looks very good, especially for me considering I'm on a budget. Does anyone have any experience with them?

[REELCRAZY]

I have a fin nor bait teaser that I bought recently. Good reel, happy with it and only around the $150 mark for a 5000/6000 size 

[Aardvarking]

I've done a good bit of research, and it seems like the Penn spinfisher live liner or the Fin Nor bait teaser are the best reels for my job. As good as the original baitrunner looks, I've just seen too many horror stories of everything going wrong, especially about the washers melting. So far the Penn is the one I'm most interested in, I've always been happy with their reels.

[savit]

I would stick with shimano baitrunners with their 10 year warranty for all reels and  even after their down-grade from older B models. If you manage to 'melt' the washers  and it is not covered by warranty - there will be a good chance to upgrade to Carbontec washers (quite easy and reasonably cheap). If you do plan a lot of lure fishing  - you might want to consider other reels as baitrunners are not the lightest reels.

[PaddyT]

Ok- D series baitrunners are light tackle reels not designed for locking up drags- having said that if you manage to melt the drag catching the average bonito/rat king/school jew that you are likely to catch of the shore in the harbour then congrats. i havent melted a drag on a reel EVER in 35 plus years of catching big, fast fish. Had plenty of reels with crook drags that faded when they heat up or got wet but 95% OF modern reels simply dont have that problem.Any issues that i am aware of from the D series were from guys fishing totally innappropriate line and drag settings on those reels (65Lb braid for example). Dont be fooled by the idea of "drag power"- most guys i know cant pull 6 kg of drag for more than 10 minutes without a harness (including a mate of mine who is an ex NRL player)- all that you are going to achieve by locking your drag when fishing the stones is breaking gear, putting yourself in a dangerous position and possibly getting hurt. Learn how to play a fish, get a set of scales and set 5kgs of drag on a reel and see how damn hard it is to pull.

[Aardvarking]

That's a fair point Paddy. I guess it looks so appealing to see that one reel has more drag power than the other because it's a tangible number, but when I think about it I've never gone more than about half way on the drag on any reel, even my lightweight bream reel. The 10 year also warranty sounds very appealing, so it looks like the baitrunner might be the best option after all. I would pretty much never go over 30lb line, and 30lb line is even a lot for me, so I would never put 65lb line on anything.

[PaddyT]

Check your settings with a set of scales , you will be very suprised (check them through the rod with a fighting bend in the rod). at the results

[DerekD]

Hi Again,

Thinking back over the fish you lost. What was the reel. Is the drag smooth. Does it have an aluminium spool or a graphite or plastic spool. I agree that breaking line at the reel is not usual. What I am working my way towards is that if it is a decent reel with no burrs or sharp edges it might be a cheap braid which is your problem. What braid are you using. May be worth pulling about 20m off the reel and checking it for abrasion and strength. I had some fused braid years ago which I kept on the reel longer than I should have and when it started fluffing up I started losing fish I would normally have landed.

While I think the baitrunner concept is fantastic and really don't want to discourage anyone from buying new fishing gear I suspect you have to be a little careful with your budget. Just want to make sure you are approaching your issue from the right direction.

Derek