Scienceman

HI FR community, I haven't spun metals off the beach or rocks since I was a teenager (40 years ago!) and want to get back into it before I'm too old and frail. Also want to chuck a few SP for jew so need a bit of grunt but dont want to go too large with reel and line to sacrifice distance. I notice most of the medium-higher spinning reels bring in ~100cm per turn. Mostly it doesn't seem to matter the reel size, the bigger they are, the lower the ratio so the total line recovered seems about the same from a 4000 - 10,000 size. Is this enough for most metals in the 30 - 100g range? The next aspect is weight, the lighter the better (i'm getting older remember 😂) I now have a well paying job and like good gear that lasts. A 15 yo Twin Power 4000 is still my best reel and I think I can get the 2020 model Twin Power 5000 SWXG past the finance controller (just). It seems to tick all the boxes. The only other similar option would be the Catalina 5000H, but its a few $ more again and I cannot see much additional benefit. So just to clarify my questions - * Is 100cm per turn enough speed for most metals? * Any feedback or suggestions on the reel, especially the TP or Cat.? * Rods I assume a 9'-10', 8 - 15kg or about? * Line - is 20lb braid too heavy and might restrict distance? Thanking you all in advance 👍

Thanks for the info on prop chatter fixes and throttle options, Zoran. Knowledge is power and I am expecting these should be able to be resolved.

After sitting on the fence and even asking my wife to make the decision for me (risky I know 😉) I decided to go with the Mercury 60CT. Reasoning: - dealer is 5 min away Vs 1 hour - was convinced the power (torque) was very close between the two motors(see attached graph, even though this is a Mercury doc I believe the graphs look authentic) with the 60CT having as good or slightly better hole-shot but expecting to drop ~5 km/h at WOT. - No other major technology differences between them; same displacement, both injected, same gearing, same weight etc - $1000 cheaper - dealer found the OEM 15P prop didnt get close enough to 6000 rpm WOT and offered to upgrade to a 14P SS prop for cost price (extra $250), retails for >$800. Read that this can reduce slip from ~25% to ~10% but if you hit a solid object it can damage gear case etc. Decided to go with it. Shake down cruise on the weekend. Confirmed hole-shot is acceptable and only slightly slower than the old 70 2st. Very smooth, flat power band up with plenty of torque across the rev range. 5800 rpm WOT at 50km/h as expected. The boat is a 2000 Bay Ranger Caprice 475 so hardly a performance hull and becomes skittish at high speeds and crashes rather than glides over waves. 3500rpm - 4500rpm = 30km/h - 40km/h very sweet running, so quiet. Don't need the fastest hole-shot or the fastest top speed as my use is 60% estuary: 20% open bay: 20% near off-shore, fishing only, no skiing or towing. Very little opportunity to run close to WOT and most boating is ~35 km/h, except for very short periods. Two negatives to be worked on, 1) Prop chatter at idle. Reported to dealer who said to see if it settles down. Read that it can be common on all makes of small 4 st engines, more often with SS props. Mercury have a Flo Torque kit which can help but is expensive. Will be pushing dealer to fit as not happy with the noise/shaking. 2) Throttle leaver has to be moved a long way before engages with engine. Then the distance travelled for the full rev range is very small so can be difficult to adjust for fine rpm control. Also difficult to quickly accelerate without going WOT. Hoping this can be adjusted but not confident. Overall level of satisfaction: 80%. Got pretty much what I expected and happy with the result. F70 Vs 60 CT Comparison.pdf

Great outcome Zoran. My Merc 60CT is being fitted as I write this. I'll update my post when I have taken it out and give feedback. I did manage to locate torque curves comparing the Merc 60CT with Yamaha F70 and as you found, the Merc curve is VERY flat. Going from 70 2st to 60 4st will cost me ~5km/hr off the top but like you, that doesn't worry me.

OK, on topic again. Was ready to drop my hard-earned and made one last call to a local outboard repairer who has a good reputation to see his thoughts, and turns out he is a Tohatsu dealer. His comments were pretty reasonable about Yamaha (nothing negative except for gearbox seals on work boats) and he pointed me to the MFS60 released last year: https://www.tohatsu.com.au/node/1523 After deciding to go with the F70 I am reluctant to consider 60hp instead however this article ran it on a similar length weight boat and seemed to go fine: https://www.fishingworld.com.au/boats/reviews/mad-dog-and-tohatsu-60hp-four-stroke-review#:~:text=The%203%2Dcylinder%2060%20is,board%20communication%20connectivity%20(optional). Things I like: - 20Kg lighter than the F70 - $1400 cheaper than the F70. (with current EOFY discount - $9,600) - newer design, the F70 was released ~8 years ago (but this shows it's reliable too) - Local servicing/repairs not 30min drive away - 5 year warranty Vs 3 year Ahhh, hate these decisions. Will sleep on it over the weekend. Anyone got feedback on the Tohatsu?

All useful comments as experience is at least as valuable as specs. Unfortunately I wont know the outcome until it is actually fitted and propped. I've been quoted the F70 which has a promotional discount currently for $11K, fitted, gauges, prop fitting etc. So $1K more than the Mercury 60CT but it will be mounted with the same bolt holes, gauges will fit into existing holes (now digital), engine weight is similar, I get an extra ~10hp with a little more torque. The torque does seem to be at higher revs than the Merc so I think fitting the right prop will be essential to ensure low - mid range grunt.

Thanks all for your comments. Appreciate the input, especially zmk1962. I've always looked at torque as much as HP with my cars so what you say makes sense however there is a more limited choice with outboards (as there are many more restrictions such as boat weight, design, application etc). I found this interesting comparison: Merc 60 = 59HP @ 5750RPM and 76NM @ 3000RPMYamaha F60 = 57HP @ 6000RPM and 76NM @ 4,500RPMYamaha F70 = 67HP @ 6300rpm and 83NM @ 5,300RPM Also expect the Suzuki DF70A would be another good option.

Well after 20 years of good service my Yamaha 70hp two stroke has finally gone terminal. Nothing wrong with the engine, just the hydraulic trim and tilt finally died to wear and tear (main cylinder scored, metal shavings internal etc). Cannot be repaired and cost to replace .......~$4,000! I looked at US and Japanese parts websites and still at least $4K. So time for a new donk. Was thinking a Yamaha 70 but my local Quinnie dealier is Mercury and he propositioned me with the 60CT. Specs look identical to the old 2 stroke Yammi except for the hp. Sure its going to be a little slower out of the hole but all 4 strokes will. EOFY sale, $10K fitted with gauges etc. Seems like a nice price. Will call the nearest Yamaha dealer on Monday to see what deals they have on offer for the F70 but I expect the Mercury will be a few thousand cheaper. My boat is a Quintrex Bayranger Caprice 475 and weighs 365kg so with engine, me and some gear, looking at ~600kg total. So if anybody is running a newish Mercury 60CT and has some comments, please let me know.

I remember these rods when I was a teenager, some 40 years ago. Great estuary rod for light mono lines. Ahhh, memories

I just use a double dropper paternoster with a medium star sinker and 10lb fluorocarbon, worms as bait. Was running 6lb which is fine for whiting but missed several medium size jew so hopefully will get one next time.

A nice few hours on The Entrance beach Sunday morning, relaxing and rewarding. Strangely I found the bream and larger whiting on the edge of a sand bank near a hole, 2 hours into the run out and will full sun at 10am. Bream always like to sit under some white water but with a bit of depth. No takes by jew this time.

I have recently switched to a double dropper (6lb fluorocarbon) paternoster with a medium star sinker at the bottom. Works a treat and probably accounts for a few extra fish over a few hours fishing. Occasionally one fish will take both baits!

Ideally I like some swell to create sand disturbance on the sand banks, usually 1 - 1.5m. Also a rising to high and early fall tide but if I am in the mood I'll try any tide. I like to pick a sand bank with white water on top and with deeper water to one side, usually a gutter running out to deep water. I try a few casts on the bank just in case they are up on it feeding. Water flow off the bank is not always obvious especially on a high tide so the direction of the breaking waves at the back of the sand bank can indicate this. I'll then try some casts on the side of the sand bank that the water is flowing into. If it is low light or early/late in the day this is usually the best location. If nothing there I'll try the deeper gutter. This is often where the fish go as the tide drops or the day gets sunny. If you don't get much then walk down the beach to the next bank/gutter and try again. Need to be patient as on this day the fish didn't bite at first light and it took me 1.5 hours for the first keeper. Then as the tide got near the top I found a good location with slow but regular bites/fish and just kept at it for a couple of hours more to get my 7 keepers.

Caught this nice bag on Saturday morning off the beach on the rising tide. 27 - 34cm. Quite spread out so needed to do a lot of searching. Identified a likely location where I caught one or two and kept at it until the results came, on the last of the run in/first of the run out, even when the sun came out at 11am they were still biting. Left when I ran out of beach worms.

The jew in my pic was caught off Crowdy beach in November. Right on the high tide at dusk on king worms (metho/frozen) - see post. We couldn't drive more than a few kms from the surf club before the beach ran out at high tide and we got bogged trying to turn around and then again on the soft sand trying to get back. Ended up having to walk over 1km to find a nice gutter to fish but the result was worth it. Would have been OK at low tide but still beware. From the sounds of your post, I think you are talking about Harrington beach as that is the beach with the Harrington breakwall at the southern end. Best jew fishing here is near the breakwall. There is an access point just after the caravan park and a track at the back of the dunes to the right taking you to the wall.

Not sure oft he jighead, probably ~1/8 oz or there abouts. That modded screwdriver looks like it will get through the hard head of a flatty pretty good. Probably the sort of think you would also find in hidden in cell at Silverwater prison

Happy to help out and I thought the 22 comments very funny. Just took a photo of the ikejime I use. Made by SureCatch so should be readily available. Probably needs a sharpen and starting to rust a little but I have had it for +10 years. I drilled a hole at the side of the cutting board mounted at the back of the boat that this fits nicely into and I just leave it there, ready to use when needed.

Ikijime, basically a spike with a handle. Much better than having them die slowly in the esky and it also makes it easier to get the hook out and transfer into the esky. I do this with all the fish I keep. Most good fishing shops sell them.

Last weekend went out to see if the crabs were about yet on Brisbane Water and unfortunately they weren't. This was a shame as my wife decided to join me as she enjoys crabbing and even agreed to a 5am start. Anyway, I still managed 3 nice flatties on a 2.5cm Zman grub. Two were 60cm and the third, 63cm which was also much broader across the body. When I cleaned them I found something very interesting, one 60cm fish was still male, the second 60cm fish had a small amount of eggs so was just reaching breeding age, and the third was female with a goodly amount of eggs. I realise a group of N=3 is not statistically relevant but does support the scientific studies which show that females breed when they reach ~60cm (they don't change sex from male to female as I also previously thought). Fish >60cm can be male, its just more likely that they will be female.

As king worms are large, I used a 2 hook rig (5/0 + 6/0) on 30lb fluorocarbon leader. Large star sinker on a short leader attached to the main line with a running swivel. Haven't seen these worms about on the Central Coast so have brought a pack back to try up at the Entrance beach. They are metho dipped and frozen. Toughens them up and doesn't seem to inhibit the fish.

This is now an annual trip so definitely looking forward to next year. Last year the jew was 7kg, this year 12kg, I'm gunning for +15kg next year. This year was especially satisfying as it was in daylight hours (just) and didn't need a 1am - 4am session like previously.

A weeks R&R with a mate up at Crowdy Head, staying in his holiday house overlooking the beach and ocean. The plan was reds from his boat and jew from the beach. Weather wasn't good most of the time, winds to 30 knots, seas to 4m but we went out in the boat when we could and dug the 4X4 out of the beach a few times. Nothing like some challenges to make the catch worthwhile. Best was this 12kg, 1.05m jew caught with beach worms on a late afternoon high tide. A good feed of reds one day too.

Thanks for the great feedback guys. A couple of farm-camping locations have told me that while low, fishing is still possible and OK. Whew, I was worried about green water and dead carp. This is a sort of "coming of age" trip with my boy. Did the same with my girl a couple of year ago, diving and fishing off dads cat in the Keppels (now sold ) Koiboi, I do intend heading south on the Darling and stopping at Lake Mungo, then heading to the Murray where I thought we might spend a night or two heading slowly west before the return to Sydney so your suggestion for a camping spot is much appreciated. Am taking dads Merc M350. Its set up with a Fox Wing, Engle, pod etc.If it rains, I'll be straight back onto the tarmac and waiting in a town until it clears or is safe to travel on dirt. Thanks for the warning though, I'll be extra careful. Too much rain and I'll head east quickly and into the Snowy Mtns instead (Plan B ) Thanks again for the feedback.

I am planning a week long road trip with my 14 yo boy in April, heading out to Broken Hill and back to Sydney. There is a great road that follows the Darling River and I intend to do some camping along it between Menindee and Wentworth. From what I can find, the river is currently very low and I doubt there will be any rain between now and April. What are my chances of catching fish? Menindee ponds might be a more successful, as will the Murray River but I would appreciate any opinions about the Darling R.

When I need a quick, slim knot with reasonable braid to fluoro strengh I use a 5 turn surgeon knot. Knot as good as the FG but quicker to tie.