DerekD

Hi all, With shorebased kings being a lot of work for not a lot of joy I’ve switched to and been having a great deal of fun on light topwater this season. Between the usual mentoring and starting casual conversations with other people in the areas I’m fishing I’ve managed to get several other people addicted to this style of fishing. The sound and visual impact of a fish hitting a lure is a buzz each time. For some fishing company yesterday afternoon I reached out to three people I’ve been fishing with recently, @linewetter, @foxyfisher and a new Raider, Ethan (yet to post). They were all tied up with either work or family... Seriously wonder about their priorities at times... I hit the inner west knowing the tide was 44cm at 5pm. I knew some of my spots were not going to be practical to fish but I was using this as a chance to see where the deeper waters were and to see how they were fishing on the low. Drummoyne was not worth the effort but I took the opportunity to get some photos of all the channels and snags. Nield park had potential but was still a little too low. The rowers club wasn’t appealing but Lilyfield had some possibilities. After getting smoked on the weekend and having it cost me about $173 in lures (ok the one I lost was a larger OSP minnow at $35, plus two more replacements of the same bought the total up another $70, then there was the middle sized MMD splash prawn I bought to test, then the new OSP hinged bent minnow I had to try... adds up quickly) I decided to use my light rather than ultralight outfit to surf any fish out of the snags. A missed strike on the small MMD splash prawn early on indicated the area had possibilities. Then a few casts later and I pull up this little beauty in the high 20s. Naturally I took a photo and sent it to the three Raiders mentioned earlier. My petty revenge for them having other priorities. 😀 A few more casts then a swirl, a hit and line peeling off. With all the oysters in the area I kept the rod high for the fight and kept as much pressure on the fish as I could. Only one or two curly moments and then I lifted up this gorgeous bream. Being larger and fighting slightly harder than the previous one I took some time to measure it. 36cm. A photo before releasing and then a text message to my three absent companions. Must give them credit, they were supportive rather than insultingly jealous... I was going to have to work harder on getting under their skin. At this stage it was getting close to dusk so I hit Drummoyne for the third and final bream. In the high twenties so I didn’t bother measuring it. Obligatory snapshot to annoy the others and then released it. I love that we have so many fishable areas so close to each other in Sydney. To be able to consistently pull reasonable fish out of the water shows how good this fishery can be. The more I fish it and learn, the less I am restricted by the tides. I still have to take the tides and the wind into account but I’m getting more and more options each time I head out on a research mission. Regards, Derek

Was it that obvious...?

Wish you had as I always enjoy catching up with you. It is also good for @linewetter to meet up with some of the other members on this site. I'm planning a really long and busy day fishing with L.W. on Sunday. Going to cover lots of locations and styles of fishing.

Hi @noelm Really appreciate the offer. It is the connecting with another person on this site while doing a shared experience which is more than half the fun for me (if I look back on my life the best memories are because of the people involved rather than the activity). I'm not in a hurry but this summer is a good opportunity to add another skill set to my fishing experiences. I've heard rumours of another Raider who is trying it for themselves in the same region as myself so I'll reach out to them. Regards, Derek

Hi @mrsswordfisherman I've known the theory of this for decades and if the world was coming to the end and I had to do it I'm pretty confident I could. I spend a lot of time teaching others what I have learned from others or worked out myself but this is one of the few times I want to go out with someone who has experience at this because I enjoy the company and there are always little tricks that don't come over in videos. I also don't want the hassle of the bait bags, finger baits, pliers, etc for what I feel will be a once only experience. I don't eat fish so don't have fish frames lying around for the bait bag and I don't need to chase worms for whiting as I have bait sorted much faster and with less hassle by heading out with my trusty yabbie pump and sieve. I had a blast going out with @FishingFables and @Little_Flatty for mullet on fly rod. Something I could have worked out for myself based on previous knowledge I had, but it was learning from Jason and the laughs which made it special for me. His sub-surface bread flies were also a game changer. I was hoping to repeat the joy of the learning experience by asking to head out with someone on the northern beaches who is good at this. Regards, Derek

Hi all, While I know the theory of beach worming I've never quite gotten around to it. Bait bags, finger baits, pliers or fingers is stuff I've heard about but never quite gotten around to doing it. To be fair if I want to chase whiting out comes my trusty and faithful yabbie pump which I've owned for about 40 years. The relative ease in which I can pump yabbies as long as the tide is suitable compared to having to really plan for a session worming is probably the biggest factor in not taking it up. Having said that I want to have done it at least once successfully in my life so I can at least talk about it with some experience. I'm in a place where I think I know how to drive a manual car after playing hours of Grand Turismo or rally games. Theory is a whole world away from real life. I keep on hearing it is harder than people realise and there are some people who just have the knack. Is there someone on this website who regularly heads out for beach worms on Sydney's northern beaches who wouldn't mind some company for a session? I want one or two to be able to tick it off my fishing list. I'm also buying breakfast or brunch afterwards. Regards, Derek

Just buy glow in the dark squid jigs and a UV torch and cover ground. Personally I think people put too much stock in fishing at lit up areas. Not to say you won't get squid turning up there but that the lighting is a magic elixer which will bring all the squid in to that location is probably a bit of a myth.

Hi @Little_Flatty After your initial reluctance to give topwater a serious run to becoming almost a topwater addict like several others on this site this report is a big turnaround. I'm really glad to hear about the results you are getting. Personally I love the heart stopping moment when a fish takes a shot at the lure. It is far more visual than fishing soft plastics and usually a little more exciting. I've also had some rather nice fish this way. Looking forward to seeing more of these reports. Got at least another 2 months of topwater fishing ahead of us. Regards, Derek

Hi @Kirelda That was a brilliant report and it put a big smile on my face. I'm looking forward to hearing the reactions of the people as mentioned above and others ( @Jfish and @nutsaboutfishing ) who were there for that Raiders topwater session. From the first few minutes I met you, you were asking some pretty intelligent questions. While I haven't had the chance to spend as much time with you as I would have liked due to geography and timing, watching your growth has been a pleasure. I've enjoyed each one of the sessions we have had together and I look forward to more over the coming years. I was glad to have you there for my PB bream on topwater lures and I hope to be there for a few of your PBs. Thanks for a wonderful read and a fun way to start the morning. Regards, Derek

Hi @Steve0, Thanks for the information on the Gliss as it gives me something else to consider when putting together the outfit. On a side note I've a lead on these long range rods that I'm following (thank @Little_Flatty and @Bennyg78 ) so it will probably be a case of watch this space.

Hi @faker, Thanks for the suggestion. Have thought about a longer rod but I think that it is a little more to it than that. I've got several squid jigs I can send a fair way and casting hasn't been a problem. I also have several 9 foot spinning rods in different casting ranges and three 9 foot fly rods and can really send lures a long way. The article mentioned casting 50 to 80m with light lures but hasn't defined light lures so I can't go out and get the same lure to see what I can do as a comparison. The reason for mentioning the 70mm Sugapen or 70mm MMD splash prawn is that it sets a baseline and is a readily accessible lure. If someone can cast one of these two lures over 50m then I want to know about it and how they do it. Another factor I have to take into account is a lot of these measurements are guesstimates and 50m is longer than you often think. Without a tape measure or reference points a lot of people would be guessing.

I agree 100% @noelm and it is also why when working with someone the first time I will spend often an hour or more on casting principles. In about 80% of the people I teach I can get substantial improvements in distance and accuracy and with less effort too. I believe I've gotten good enough at this to get the most out of my gear but to hear someone is getting 15m to 45m further than me really sparks my interest. The challenge I have is I don't want to spend say $1,000 on a new rod designed to get the most casting distance then find out all the little caveats afterwards like it has to be this lure. You need to be standing on a cliff. It needs to be fishing line made of unicorn hair. You also need a tail wind of 50 knots. It was a guesstimated distance as we didn't have a tape measure handy. Now if we could both put the same lure on each outfit under the same conditions and then compare casting distance I feel it is a proper comparison. Try before you buy would also be nice. In my case, a pretty consistent 35m with a 70mm splash prawn is around the most I think it is possible with my outfit. I've gone head to head with @Bennyg78 and his preferred outfits and we are both getting very similar distances consistently. It comes down to a coin toss which one of us will cast further and only by 1 to 2m. To find out the X factor I'm trying to find someone who can genuinely get these extra distances.with the same lures I'm using and then work out why. I'm quite prepared to spend several hundred dollars to get say a 9 foot specialised bream rod to get 10m further casting distance under normal fishing conditions as it opens up more of the areas I'm able to fish. This was the claim which started this quest for knowledge:

Ok. I was talking to a friend and we were discussing the impact of reel size versus casting distance. Will a 1000 reel cast further than a 3000 reel or is it the other way round? Someone did an article on this: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/3000-1000-spinning-reel-casting-distance/

Hi all, Since getting into lures around 2 decades ago I realised consistent and efficient casting was an important part of effective lure fishing. It wasn't purely about distance but I worked out that distance (and accuracy) came with good technique. Over time I worked the little inefficiencies out of my casting technique. Learning fly fishing also had an impact on my casting as I learned about loading the rod up and casting along straight lines. Helping others improve their casting also helped getting rid of the chaff. I'm at the point where I think I can pick up most outfits and come close to hitting the practical limits of each particular set up. I still look for improvements even if they are minor. A year or so ago I was introducing a friend to hardbodies and he was casting small crank lures about 4 meters consistently further than I was. Hmmmmmm.... On further investigation I worked out it wasn't that his technique was better than mine but it came down to his set-up. As I have access to several long very gently sloping sandflats I started to look into maximum possible casting range. I bought a 7'8" rod with short butt, put a 1000 reel on it and set it up with PE0.5 braid filled to the optimal point on the spool. I also set up one of my other 1000 reels with a multi-coloured Siglon 8lb braid in PE0.6. I don't notice a significant casting distance difference in the reels when used with the same rod but the Siglon braid really lets me know how well I'm casting based on the colour changes. On this outfit with an MMD splash prawn 70mm (4.6gram) or a Sugapen 70mm (4.3gram) I can consistently reach around 35m. Rather than a tape measure there is a body of water where I can hit 1m shy of the opposite bank and using the measure tool in Google earth I worked out the length was 35m. While discussing long cast, light lure outfits for bream I was advised of a custom rod manufacturer who can hit 50 to 80m with their rods. This really got my attention as I would be stoked to get 15m more out of the lures I'm using. On further reading I read that they have used the outfits on days with 50 knot tail winds. That would explain where some of the distance comes from. There were some 30 knot winds this afternoon so I went to a bay where I could take advantage of the southerly. I used two of my outfits and on both I managed to increase my casting distance by 3 or 4 meters but nothing more. I used every little trick up my sleeve to get added distance short of using a drone or taking a Happy Gilmore style run up before casting. I hit the wall. There was nothing left in my proverbial tank. Is there anyone who can hit a measured (rather than estimated) 50m or better with the MMD splash prawn 70mm or Sugapen 70mm? If yes then how do you do so? Is it a specialised 9 foot or similar outfit. If you are in Sydney I would love to see this and see if I can get further improvements in my range. Regards, Derek

I take it you read this one too:

Hi all, I thought there were some very good comments in relation to this article so I tracked down the creator of the video and sent him the link to this topic. He took the time to come back with the following response. That was fun to read all of the discussion. Thanks for sharing. Next time I make a similar video, I'll have to consider multiple viewing angles to capture movement in all directions. I've also heard suggestions to include different types of lures. There are so many combinations of lures, knots, and lines/leaders, it may have to be broken into several videos! Sounds like there may be some follow up videos incorporating the Raiders observations.

Awwwww..... This thread has given me a warm, glowing feeling. That was a lovely offer @XD351 Looking forward to seeing more of your reports @Birdy

Knots to hardbody lures video: snug knot, loop knot, clips or split rings? This is a topic which comes up now and then for discussion on this forum. This gentleman did a video with underwater footage.

Hi @linewetter, So you were paying attention... Congratulations on the bream and I loved the photos and the background story. I used to do 1 reconnaissance trip once every 4 or 5 trips out to learn about different areas. This trip out is a great start. Glad it wasn't me climbing up that steep hill. How was the burn in the legs? Looking forward to your next report. Derek

YEP!! You've just reached the same conclusion I came to a while back and it was a game changer for me. I follow the video's guidelines of using 10m casts when fishing along the wall but I also go for maximum casts on those shallow gradient sandflats.

We canned the afternoon session in Mosman. There was only @AlbertW and @linewetter still able to play after lunch. Since they were both in my car we drove around Iron Cove to show them another fishing area and ended up at Lilyfield for a flick and then back to Drummoyne Bay for the late afternoon. The topwater was going well in the sense we were still having fun and really dialing in the casts and retrieves so we just continued. It made dropping Albert at the train station and Linewetter back at his place really easy. We covered almost everything I can think of with topwater (but still have freshwater topwater to try at Manly dam for bass and redfin). Session at Mosman is still to come and I'll keep you in the loop.

Hi all and excellent write up @linewetter, It was an absolute pleasure catching up with you all and then seeing the group dynamics as people switched around and had a chat to different people. Between the walk the dog type lures (Sugapen & Slippery dog), popper style lures (MMD Prawns & Skinny pops) and finally the dying baitfish type lures (OSP bent minnow and Berkley Bender) I think we covered most of the topwater style lures you will encounter for this style of fishing. Once you learn to use the retrieve I try to teach with the Sugapen the same retrieve works for the other lures. You just change the cadence and vary the pauses to suit but it is the same retrieve technique. By the end of the session I can say with complete confidence that you are all at the point you will catch topwater bream and the whiting with the level you have reached. So we didn't catch any bream on the day, but there are days when they are not biting. Really blown away by the effort you all put in to learn this lovely niche style of fishing. Regards, Derek

Another time. Today was mostly about @linewetter and @lhan and they would have gotten most of my time with the other people there getting comments about where they could try something different.

I had a ball. It kind of grew organically. I'd promised to take out @linewetter and @lhan. @Bennyg78 was keen to get out for a flick and had promised to show Linewetter fishing gear from the dark side. @AlbertW has been in regular contact with Benny and myself and we were keen to get him his first topwater bream so invited him along. @Kirelda also is of similar age to Albert and they have fished together before. He happens to live in easy driving distance so we let him know it was on. It was also where we first met and I encouraged him to join Fishraider. @Jfish and fishing buddy reached out to me the day before and I mentioned it was happening so they decided to swing by. @Little_Flatty was leaving just as Benny was arriving. @nutsaboutfishing was coincidentally there as we have fished together in the area before. Unfortunately, @lhan had to pull out due to a recent injury so as his health is more important (just) than a fishing session he made the smart decision to put it back. I've been keen to get out with @Robbo from Sydney to refine his topwater skills so let him know the plan for the day. I did get to throw a line in this time as well as helping each of the team grow in new directions.

It was a fantastic day with some great company and relaxed conversations. While we didn't land any bream on lures I think everyone got something out of it and they are all at the point where I have confidence they will catch bream or whiting on topwater using what they've learned if they put some more sessions in and the fish are playing. We had several swirls and pulled hooks but that is part of the game.