DerekD

If Pryml braid I suspect it is also what I'd call a thicker braid for the line rating which won't be helping with your casting range. When you see what you can do with @Bennyg78 or my outfits it will be a huge eye opener. Changing the braid is a worthwhile move at some stage. You could also put a skinny 10lb on it. Siglon do a bulk spool of that in the multicolour and dang it casts. The store I went to to get some reels spooled up are out of the 8lb in the same series of line the last time I went to Mona Vale but they still had the 10lb. The AAS-270UL is my go to light rod for harbour and day to day fishing but there is another I want to look at. It is the Arrowz Bream Flats Surface 7'6, 2 pc, 3 - 8lb and with a lure rating of 2-12grams. This would be the ArrowZ equal to the Raider Bream Finesse but I suspect with reduced weight. My theory is that the longer butts in the lighter rods came about as a way of reducing overall weight of the rods. You will notice the counterweight on the bottom of the rod. The further you can get it away from the reel seat the lighter you can make the counterweight thus dropping the overall weight of the rod. In the heavier rods the lever thing does make sense for both casting and working the lures or fighting the fish (you can tuck it under your arm during a long fight).

What braid do you have on the 3-5kg? I'm especially interested in the diameter. I think the rod at 6 foot 6 will have a noticeable impact on casting range and the braid is the other factor. I think it is still worth looking at the 2-4kg but it has to be the right one. There is an ArrowZ rod out there which sounds like it would make an excellent cross over for what you are after. It wasn't around when I got into the ArrowZ range. it has an extremely similar spec to the Raider Bream finesse I recommend but I suspect it will be a bit lighter. For the 2-4kg range of rods a 2500 is my go to. For the 1-3kg range then I seriously consider the 1000 sized reels. I've also noticed that for the topwater retrieve the reduced line retrieved per crank on a 1000 reel makes it easier for me to work the lures. To work the lure you are using small pulses of the rod tip. You have to pick up the slack between pulses. It is easier to do pick up small amounts of line with a smaller reel. Conversely, if I want high retrieve speed then I go larger reels as they pick up more line for one wind of the handle.

Hi @linewetter If you are interested and are able to get to either the lower north shore area or Drummoyne area at a time which suits both of us I can show you the gear and you can have a cast and a go. That should help make your decision easier. I have the 1000 and 2500 reels. Also have a 1500 reel in there somewhere. i've got several rods in the 1 to 4kg range. Usually they all live in the car too so I don't have to go out of my way for this. It also means you can throw on some of the lures you are thinking of using and see what you can get out of well set up gear. Be warned that @Bennyg78 will try and steer you to the darkside with his Daiwa addiction. Having said that once you know how the gear handles it is easier to make an informed decision as to what suits you. Which suburb are you based? I'd also like to see your casting technique as that has a pretty big impact on getting the most out of your outfits. Regards, Derek PS. with a bit of planning you could meet both Benny and myself and make a comparison between the different outfits we use.

Hi @linewetter Oh this is a fun and interesting question as it opens a lot of discussion points. Firstly, because there are a few things to consider when getting a light lure outfit I'm going to link to this one: https://community.deckee.com/topic/95582-article-your-first-light-lure-outfit/ While I've been doing a lot of light lure fishing since I started with soft plastics it is in the last few years I've been spending a whole lot of time with the hard body lures due to a brilliant introduction to topwater fishing article by Fishraider @Niall : https://community.deckee.com/topic/90391-bream-on-topwater-lures/ Depending on what braid you are using your outfit will almost be too heavy for the species you are discussing but an epiphany I had last year is that will apply to most outfits you are talking about based on the amazing properties of braid. I set up an outfit a year or so ago to get the absolute most out of light lures. I picked up a braid with a PE0.5 rating (skinniest I could find). It still breaks at over 12lbs (5.44kg). Those fish you are talking about will be way less than that. It casts light hard body lures (say around 4gram) insane distances (say up to about 35m). Knot strength will be a factor in breaking strength. I teach my students the FG for the joiner knot and the uni knot at the lure end. This outfit won't be all about casting long distances as you will also want to fish at closer ranges, especially when around structure, so then casting accuracy becomes important. The casting distance does help on the long sandflats I also have access to. For casting light lures this is what I'd be considering A longer rather than shorter rod. Rod tip length helps with rod tip speed which helps lure speed which helps with distance. For $156 I bought a Crucis 4 piece 7 foot 8 inches rod with a short butt (I'm still a fan of short rod butts as it helps with the way I work lures). As @big Neil said, a 1000 sized reel. The smaller diameter spool in my opinion means the line has less distance to travel to come off it equating in less lost energy. I have the Stradic and the Nasci (least expensive reel in the Shimano range with a wind in handle which means less play in the long term). If you hop on line and do your research take advantage of the match best price plus 10% offer you can get the Nasic for $154 minus a further 10% off at one of the big chain stores. Line will be a pretty big factor in casting lighter lures. While I set the original outfit up with Shangrila Pe0.5 braid for $50 per 100m roll when I respooled the other 1000 reel I went bulk spool braid with Siglon 8lb PE0.6 multi-coloured (lets me see how far I'm casting with the different lures) braid all the way. I got 200m on the 1000 spool for about $42. I fish flats where there is still a chance on a salmon or king and I didn't have to stuff around with getting the backing right so the spool was packed optimally. This slightly larger diameter line still casts brilliantly. This outfit has been a weapon and a joy to use. Watching other people cast it is a laugh when they are shocked at how far it casts. Biggest fish landed on it to date was a 73cm flathead (yes it was released). Just some things to think about. Derek PS. Don't go too light on the rod lure rating, 1 to 5 gram lure weights is a bit too limiting in my opinion. Sometimes I want to send a 10 gram halco twisty or similar out there and in my case I can use the same outfit to do so. For the time being stay clear of the ultralight outfits till you work out the limitations of the light outfit or a have a fair bit of spare money to get some niche outfits. PPS. @Bennyg78 and I have gone head to head on casting our respective preferred outfits and the difference comes down to bugger all on average. One of us might pull ahead slightly by a few meters on a specific cast when everything comes together but essentially we are equal. Think he had a pretty good casting teacher and if he ever starts substantially outcasting me I'll be asking him for lessons.

Hi Jason ( @FishingFables ) and Mike ( @Little_Flatty ), Thank you for a very pleasant late afternoon fly fishing. I really appreciated the local knowledge. I've fished the lakes often enough to have some aspects worked out but I'd done very little in this section of the lake so it was a real eye opener. I'm keen to try it again and it has given me an idea for other places to try this style of fishing. Regards, Derek

Hi @Aussie_fisher It was a pleasure to meet both you and your father. The passion you have for fishing will take you a long way. It was good to see both of you working at the casting and getting more accuracy and distance for less effort. Will have to look at some further sessions when time permits. Congratulations on the nice flathead too. Regards, Derek

Hi @JustJames Think I can help you there. Talk soon mate and happy new year. Regards, Derek

Congratulations @Robbo from Sydney. First of probably many. Although you haven't passed my walk the dog course (you need to get good enough to be able to do a tight walk the dog with a 70mm Sugapen all the way in on a long cast and be able to do it two times in a row to pass the course) the fish will be your biggest critics. You have gotten good enough to pull three bream in on a bent minnow and a decent whiting on a Sugapen. It was a pleasure to catch up with you for the afternoon session yesterday. I was impressed with your toadfish on topwater. In some ways it beats my 35cm bream on topwater and @HenryR whiting on topwater during the same session. Regards, Derek PS. Said bream on MMD splash prawn on a super long cast over the flats.

Hi @lhan, Welcome aboard. Where in Sydney are you based. You read my article on your first light lure outfit. Did you get far enough down to read the section on topwater lures as an additional section in that same post? Those topwater lures are effective the whole day but you need to find some areas where the fish are and that involves covering ground (such as the bay run in Sydney). Regards, Derek PS that 15lb braid will cut into your casting distance on light lures. I've got a light lure outfit on which I can hit up to 35m with a 70mm sugapen reasonably consistently (not all the time but even the not so good casts are hitting over 25m).

Hi Jay, Welcome back. Hope you are your loved ones are well. I'm not going to be of much help as I think I've been to Riverstone only once (work visit) in my life. Maybe twice. Having said that you are hitting freshwater territory including bass and carp. The bass are aggressive lure takers and a lot of fun. Derek

Hi @Gengar Merry Christmas to you and your family. I enjoyed the report and the pictures. Congratulations on the redfin and bass. For further information about fishing the dam give me a call. I'm not in the mood for typing. 😀 Regards, Derek

In that case we should aim for Friday the 5th of January with the Saturday as the fall back if the weather isn't playing nice.

Hi @AlbertW I really enjoyed both the written report and the photos. Glad to see things are coming together for you and this will be one of the first of many topwater fish you will catch over the years. Once you understand the how to do it then it just comes down to putting in the time and covering ground. Next challenge is topwater fish on a bent minnow. Hoping to get out for a fish with you in the coming weeks. Regards, Derek

Hi @Little_Flatty That was an awesome summary and a joy to read. Really appreciate you putting that together. Hope to see you on or by the water soon. Regards, Derek

Then we can look at Friday the 5th (my preference) or Saturday the 6th. I'll respond to your gear question privately.

Hi @Aussie_fisher It depends a lot on the availability of @Kirelda but how about we look at the 3rd or 4th of January. We can monitor the weather in the days before. Light rain is not an issue but heavy rain takes the fun out of it. Probably Mosman bay at 8am. Can you give me a bit more information about your rod (length, line and lure rating), your reel size and the braid you have selected. If you haven't got the braid yet then we should discuss before you buy it. Regards, Derek

More than happy for you to bring your dad - the site guidelines are for both your protection and my protection. Discuss it with him and happy to include him in the lesson as it something you can do together.

Hi @Aussie_fisher, A suggestion for you. I've promised to help one of the other Fishraiders ( @Kirelda ) over the coming weeks with light lure outfits as he has hit a wall in his learning and successes. I find if I teach one or two people then it is about the same amount of effort for me but having two people changes the learning dynamic for the people I help. You can see where other people struggle or succeed and learn from that as you both grow. The three way conversation is a bit more fun as it has a tendency to spark good questions. Likely location for the lesson will be lower north shore and most likely Mosman. I'm off from the 22nd of December to the 8th of January. Lesson will likely be in the new year as I have overseas family in town till the 2nd of Jan. I'm also really keen to take Jason (aka @FishingFables ) on his really generous offer to go fly fishing for mullet on Narrabeen lakes with @Little_Flatty. It will be more beneficial for your growth if you try it for yourself first but if you are struggling and interested then you are welcome to join in on that session. We will be covering plastics, squid jigs, slices, blades and topwater and light outfit lure fishing in general. Typically 8 to 10 hours but I've also had 12 hour sessions when both parties still had some drive in the tank. Your thoughts? Regards, Derek PS as per site guidelines I assume you are over 18. Do you have transport.

There will be a pretty big learning curve but my enjoyment of fishing increased exponentially since I got into plastics and other lures. I found I was far more engaged. Where are you located?

Hi @Aussie_fisher Taken from one of my previous articles: Graphite conducts electricity. Keep away from power cables and thunderstorms. Graphite bruises. If it is going to be a boat rod and banging up against the gunnels or other metal surfaces in time the points of impacts will develop minor cracking which will likely bite you when fighting a fish sometime in the future. People think the rod is faulty when it breaks due to previous poor handling. It is not as robust as a fibreglass rod. If you have ever seen the classic Australian movie “The Castle” there is a scene where they bend over a Shakespeare Ugly Stick rod back on itself. You don’t do that with a graphite rod and you don’t need to either. It is referred to as high sticking when fighting a fish and it is a bad habit. Now some additional points. First thing is (from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) "Don't Panic"! Graphite rods are not as fragile as you think but a little care goes a long way. They will handle a 90 degree bend (rod tip angle to rod handle angle) but you shouldn't need to. Try to use a curvature in the rod when fighting a fish like the upper arc of the harbour bridge. In other words a relatively smooth arc. The rod tip section is your shock absorber with the base section taking the load of the fight. If snagged then point the rod down the line and load up directly from the reel. I select my lures based on the lure rating written on the rod. If you fish within rod ratings you will have to work super hard to try and damage a tip. You put even more load on the rod when casting or fighting a decent fish. I've got graphite rods I've been fishing for over a decade. Regards, Derek

Hi @Robbo from Sydney While you still have some work to do on the topwater retrieve with the Sugapen it is good to see it coming together. Where you particularly impressed me is in the smoothness and efficiency of your casting. That you were capable of hitting the same distances I can with these light lures is a great indication of how far you have come in two sessions. Can't wait to hear what your regular fishing buddy thinks when you have improved out of sight. Just tell him you watched some YouTube clips (that is kind of true). The bream will be the greatest critics of your lure technique and that you hooked up three shows you are heading in the right direction. For the record I had a donut but I was in teach mode (leave me some dignity 😁 ). Congratulations once again on the topwater bream and I'm looking forward to reading more of these excellent reports as your lure fishing abilities grow. Regards, Derek PS thank you very much for the bent minnow. How did you know that one was my favourite colour?

Hi @Robbo from Sydney Firstly, it has been a pleasure talking to and then meeting you. It is people like you with a hunger to grow their fishing skills and the commitment to put into practice what they learn which makes mentoring so worthwhile. I enjoyed seeing the awakening and resulting smile on your face as concepts that you probably knew intuitively clicked into place. Probably one of my favourite moments was how blown away you were when you saw me tie a lure on. While this is probably a "you had to be there moment" I'll see if I can enlighten others and especially those who use a half blood knot or locked half blood knot to tie on their terminal tackle. I don't like having to re-tie leaders. It is not to say I'm not good at it or that I don't take care and pride in making a well tied leader knot but I do it because I need to and not because I want to. The locked half blood knot is the first fishing knot I ever learned and I used it for a few decades. Somewhere along the way (when I got into lures) I learned the Uni (Universal - it can be tied on all line classes) knot and the Uni to Uni knot. I then had two epiphanies about the uni knot which changed my fishing in both a small and huge way. Firstly, it is a sliding knot which means I can drop the lure out of the way while tying the knot then slide it into place. This avoids the hooks in the hands issue when working with trebles. When using the locked half blood knot the obvious way to tighten and cinch it down is to pull the long tag end. When done you are cutting off 3 to 5cm of line which comes off your overall leader length. When I tie a Uni knot I keep the loop small and specifically the tag short but then pinch the tag end and cinch it up from below (terminal tackle end). I've learned how to consistently get a tag of about 10mm length which DOES NOT NEED TRIMMING. This means I have to tie a leader three times less often than people using a locked half blood knot. Something to think about. I'll probably have to do a video on this. Looking forward to seeing your growth over the coming months. Regards, Derek

Rapala Flash-X Skitter. Comes in a variety of colours. Casts well. Solid hooks. Almost half the price of some of my other garfish style lures. Looks like this: Haven't caught anything on it yet though but love the way I can get it skittering and zig zagging across the surface.

You know me too well these days. It is also intended to give you an idea of where we want to be at the end of each lesson. A bit of competition is healthy and if you start outcasting me I will want to work out the how so I can grow.

Hi @AlbertW It was a rather pleasant fishing session. It is a bit of an eye opener as to the difference in casting distance when you learn to back the brakes off to the minimum and then use the thumb to stop the overrun when it lands. One of the big selling points of those outfits is being to drop the lure on target by feathering the drum but having that extra casting distance up your sleeve doesn't hurt either. Love the bend in that rod in the photo of @Bennyg78 casting. Took me a while to work out the little details to get the most of that outfit. The settings of the centrifuge/inertia brake involve moving the six plastic pieces either outwards for more resistance or inwards for less resistance (a bit like putting your arms out or pulling them in to change your rotational speed while spinning). Having all 6 out cost a lot of casting distance. Having all 6 in resulted in frequent bird nests. Being obsessed with symmetry I set them in pairs till I watched a video where a guy pointed out the difference in casting distance between 4 in and 5 in. Turns out that worked really well with my reel and I didn't have issues with overrun of the drum. You will now have to spend a bit of time playing with your Curado which has a slightly different set up to mine. Regards, Derek