Leaders, Trace, Braid. What The?

[mattdan]

Hi gurus,

I just wanted to know if you could help me I am very confused

I have a Penn 220GTO levelwind overhead reel and boat rod. I was thinking about spooling it with braid. I have never used braid before so i thought this combo might be a good place to start. I was down my local tackle shop last night and the guy helping me confused the hell out of me.

Now i get that i have to use a mono backing first then the attach the braid. I am assuming with a double uni knot please correct me if i am wrong.

He then said i need a leader of 8 metres or so. Now this is where i am getting confused. Do i join this leader directly to the braid or is this leader the same as what I call a trace ie: braid to swivel then leader from swivel to hook? And with what knot?

So basically this is my question. Is the leader a trace or are they 2 different things? And should the leader/trace be of heavier weight then the braid ie: 25lb braid/30lb leader/trace?

I was also asking him about flurocarbon line as many of you have mentioned it here, where does this get used in the equation?

Lastly, is braid generally used for heavier outfits or can it be used for light gear as well?

Matty B

[mattdan]

Ben,

Thanks for the info mate. When you refer to your leader I am assuming that you are refering to this being used as your trace.

Sorry about the silly and probably really obvious question. But this is where it is confusing me.

Just the leader/trace bit. Are they the same thing and just a different way of describing them or are they 2 different things that serve 2 different purposes.

Once again sorry about the question but as I have been out of the game for 10 years odd I am just trying to get back up on the lingo etc.

Matt

[kantong]

Gday Matty,

trace and leader mean the same thing.

I use Fluorocarbon because its less visible in the water than mono.

Not sure about the strength of fluoro compared to mono, but I have read about the knots slipping with fluoro. Just learn to tie knots better i guess, its also harder for human eyes to see too.

hope that helps!

Cheers

Kantong

[Guest danielinbyron]

I refer to trace as the line that is attatched to the hook or lure, and leader as the line that is attatched to the braid.. There are allot of ways to tie the braid to leader knot ,I suggest getting a copy of geoff wilsons complete book of fishing knots , the above listed methods will suffice until the rainy day you get to try out the knots in the book ..its kind of satisfying when you get them to work..It will also enable you to rference the knots talked about on this site and in magazines..

welcome to a whole new world of expense and pain....braid.

Edited December 1, 2006 by danielinbyron

[namesay]

What are you plannig to catch with this outfit? As things will be VERY different for different species. I use braid exclusively for everything from squid, yakkas , salmon, kingies etc. But rigging the leader/trace will be different species by species. Cheers Kelvin

[clutch]

braid can be used throughout mate it has the same breaking strain at mono but is usually 1/4 the diameter allowing longer casting and you can feel the bites way better.

what I usually do and what I suggest you do is use say anywhere between 8-15lb mono backing, tie it to the braid (go for a good all round poundage of say 15lb) with as you said the double uni knott. As for the leader I don't usually use 8m.... I suggest 1 metre so that when you tie the leader to the braid with a double uni it goes past the guides. You can use a double uni to tie your braid to a leader (of say 20lb - usually more than the main line ok) or you can use what I sometimes use and that is a snap lock swivel. It just means that I can easily change rigs if say I get a snap or want to change tactics. You just have to be sure the braid it securely tied to the swivel mate. Your poundage will depend on what you intend to use it for, what I have mentioned is general bottom bashing poundage that I use, other guys have different opionions I am sure but that's what works for me and there is no correct way mate it's all about trial and error and seeing for yourself what works best.

Goodluck with it

Ben

Ben , I too am a bit confused like Matty when it comes to braid.

I have yet to splool anything with braid however I will soon.

So just to clarify.......Are you saying first mono backing, then the braid, then a metre of leader , then the trace?

Why the metre of leader befor the trace?...thanks for the info

[insolent]

Ben , I too am a bit confused like Matty when it comes to braid.

I have yet to splool anything with braid however I will soon.

So just to clarify.......Are you saying first mono backing, then the braid, then a metre of leader , then the trace?

Why the metre of leader befor the trace?...thanks for the info

The mono backing stops the braid slipping on the spool (and allows you to save some $$$ without having to fill the entire reel with braid) then fill with your braid then the leader/trace (mostly you will only have a single leader/trace not both).

Sometimes you may wish to have a set up where it goes backing, braid, lighter leader, swivel and then heavy leader (trace) the reason for this is so you can bust off the leader if snagged without losing expensive braid (ie if your fishing 80lb braid it is almost impossible to snap so you end up cutting it off if your in 50m of water thats a bit of dosh compared to losing the leader).

Sometimes a long leader is used to cushion the setting of the hook and allow the fish not to feel the line as braid has no stretch. Sometimes a short leader is used so you have instant feel of whats happening and the hook sets as soon as the rod loads up.

Just to confuse it in some circumstances the braid is the backing and a 100-150m of mono (or more) is attached as the mainline, this usually occurs in LBG situations where extra line capacity is a plus but the abrasion resistance on the mainline and leader is paramount (and to be eligible for records???).

As Kelvin says every situation and target species will be different as will the equipment you are using.

The above is only my interpretation and the way people I learned off fish, there are no hard and fast rules just what works best for you. I just read an article on catching trophy Dolphin Fish and each of the skippers (5 top game charter captains from around the world) had different techniques some stuff was similar but each had his own particular set up.

Cheers, hope I haven't crapped on too long and not muddied the topic up more.

Evil

Edited December 1, 2006 by Evil

[clutch]

The mono backing stops the braid slipping on the spool (and allows you to save some $$$ without having to fill the entire reel with braid) then fill with your braid then the leader/trace (mostly you will only have a single leader/trace not both).

Evil

Ben and Evil, thanks for the advice

[namesay]

To add more mud to this topic, with trace and leader materials, you now have fluorocarbon/mono nylon/wire. I use fluorocarbon almost exclusively for my leader/trace. People tell me that fluorocarbon is invisible in the water but I can see it very clearly!!! So I presume the fish can as well.

I use fluorocarbon as it has amazing abrasion resistence. You can get some nicks in the line and it still holds most of its strength unlike nylon.

Also for my squid jigs, fluorocarbon is great as it is denser than nylon and it sinks. Braid doesn't!!! So it helps to get the jig down deeper. However, there are really tough nylon leader materials as well. Tough multi coated nylon like Schneider is almost as resilient as wire. Cheers Kelvin

[mattdan]

Thanks for all the responses,

From what you have all said it seems as many of you refer to the trace/leader as being the same thing with the difference being how it is rigged when targeting specific species.

I am going to do a bit more homework on this before i decide to spool it.

Ben mentioned books and vid's, are there any suggestions for books or video's that cover this topic?

Matt

[Little_Flatty]

matt,

just make sure that when you are spooling your reel with braid that you do use backing it does more than just protecting the core of your reel it stops slipping on the spool as well as stopping certain braid's cutting into the spool.

I'd also suggest that you use **mono** as backing (or just one thin layer of it if you want to pack in more braid) as you need at least a little of it on the bottom of the spool to stop slipping.

Just on the weekend I thought I'd be smart and use 15lb braid as backing on my threadline outfit and was surprised how much slipping I got - I'd say I didn't even have 100g of drag. After discussing with the guys at my LTS they pulled all my line off and made me put a thin layer of mono on first.

Guess what...no more problems!

Mike

[tafc010]

So, if I'm using (for example) SP's chasing Bream and Flathead around Cowan and stuff what should I use?

Currently I got 6 pound Braid and an empty spool. (not sure about backing etc)

What should I use for a leader? or should I tie the lure strait to the braid, wow this is confusing but very informative.

Thanks

Geoff

[Little_Flatty]

So, if I'm using (for example) SP's chasing Bream and Flathead around Cowan and stuff what should I use?

Currently I got 6 pound Braid and an empty spool. (not sure about backing etc)

What should I use for a leader? or should I tie the lure strait to the braid, wow this is confusing but very informative.

Thanks

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I'm no expert but...

First off you will need backing. Depending on how much braid you have and how big your reel is, you will need between one layer to maybe a hundred metres or so of mono as backing, which you join your braid to (google up the double uni knot - easy to tie and very useful). The idea would be that by the time you reel on all of your braid, the spool should be full.

After this, it is best to join on a bit of mono or flurocarbon (I use 1.5m or so) to the end of the braid, then tie on your lure. I tend to fish very light (4-6lb) flurocarbon as my leader but that is probably too light for cowan - may be worth going up to 10lb or even 12.

If this gets too confusing pop into a tackle shop (Fishfinders and Wattos are our sponsors remember) and ask all the questions you need answers to.

Best of luck!

Mike

[Blood Knot]

So, if I'm using (for example) SP's chasing Bream and Flathead around Cowan and stuff what should I use?

Currently I got 6 pound Braid and an empty spool. (not sure about backing etc)

What should I use for a leader? or should I tie the lure strait to the braid, wow this is confusing but very informative.

Thanks

Geoff

Tafc010 - Assume the empty spool you talk about is on your reel, if so try this:

Start by winding on say some 8 or 10lb monofilament (as backing, this will stop the braid from slipping on the spool) then uni knot this to your 6lb braid and then wind this on to the reel as well.

The trick here is to try and get the level of the braid (together with the mono backing that is under it) about a couple of millimeters under the spool lip when your new spool of braid runs out. If you come up too short, un spool the lot and add more mono backing, if you finish up too full, same thing just remove some of the mono backing and try again. Its pretty critical to get this right or you find you get loops of braid coming off the spool when casting.

Also the braid needs to be wound on under reasonable tension.

As for leaders definitely tie on say 5 or 6 feet of say 6 or 8lb flouro carbon leader, stren or uni knot this to the braid

Good luck with it

John

[tafc010]

Thanks heaps guys, should get my new KING rod this week and then I can put it all together.

Thanks again

CYA

Geoff

[clutch]

The trick here is to try and get the level of the braid (together with the mono backing that is under it) about a couple of millimeters under the spool lip when your new spool of braid runs out. If you come up too short, un spool the lot and add more mono backing, if you finish up too full, same thing just remove some of the mono backing and try again. Its pretty critical to get this right or you find you get loops of braid coming off the spool when casting.

I guess this is where it helps to have a spare spool..........I've heard people fill the spare spool up backwards with the braid first and then add the backing to just the right amount.....then transfer it back to your other spool and it should be spot on...........something like that aye?

[tafc010]

I guess this is where it helps to have a spare spool..........I've heard people fill the spare spool up backwards with the braid first and then add the backing to just the right amount.....then transfer it back to your other spool and it should be spot on...........something like that aye?

Man, that's waaay to smart, no wonder I never thought of it, but it sounds like it will work. Thanks again.

Now, that uni knot, is it ok to join the braid to the mono on the spool and again the braid to the leader?

Thanks for all your help so far.

Geoff

[namesay]

Should have a problem with joining lines. I know most of us top shot our braid when that gets thin in the spool . Once had a king on light gear and it was interesting to see several different coloured braid coming off the spool.

For heavier fishing you should learn to tie a good double as this will make the join 100% safe. I also use super glue on my tag ends. Cheers Kelvin

[stricko4]

Guys,

While on the topic of silly questions from newbies. When using snap/clip swivels what knot do you tie in your leader to attach via the clip/snap?? I have used a spider hitch & it seems ok but I am about to embark on some beach fishing for Tailor & Salmon & want to know if this will be strong enough. Any suggestions.