Same Outboard - Different Horsepower?

[arif]

Hi Raiders

I have been looking at a 50 or 60 horsepower Mercury or Yamaha 2 stroke, i notice that througout the range the same engine (size, bore stroke etc) have different horsepower ratings, is this because the higher horsepower motors are just revving higher or have different settings on their carbs? also does it matter am i better off getting a outboard that has the lower HP for its CC size?

PS i have only considered these two brands should i look at some of the others?

Thanks

Arif

[Flightmanager]

Most ( if not all) new 2 strokes are Fuel Injected , they have to be to meet the strict EPA standards. Different injection and ignition systems can give similar engines very different power curves.

Typically , most 2 stroke outboards generate maximum power between 4500 and 5500 RPM.

You might like to have a look at the Evinrude Etec range of motors . They are a little more expensive than some others , but you do get a lot of engine for your $$$ !!

Craig from Huetts Marine would be the man to talk to , I'm sure he will post a reply in the days to come .

Ross

[johnno]

You also have to look at weight some models run the same gearbox through a few models

or may run a heavier box on one

Also as you notice they have the same bore and stroke etc etc.

but they can de tune them in a fair few different ways

to get more hp and it can be more then just carb adjustment

jet size,

[a boat]

Good Morning Arif, good question you ask and you are correct. Every brand of outboard have families of engines, which run the same powerhead but have different carbies, or with the newer EMM controlled engines have a different fuel map/program. When comparing brands of outboard engines the cubic capacity of the engine is most important when it comes to the performance and the stress levels on the outboard to produce the quoted HP. The two engines you are considering are both good outboards but the Mercury 50/60HP is a much more powerful engine because it 967cc engine compared to only 698cc for the 50HP Yamaha and 849cc for the 60HP Yamaha. Also having three year warranty vs two year warranty is a benefit that the Merc has.

Depending on your boat I think the 50HP Mercury offers the best performing outboard out of the two you mentioned. What I would look at also is a 50HP E-TEC Evinrude, it will cost you more but offers better value for money considering you get a SST prop standard and 3 year service intervals which can add about $2000 to the cost of a carby 2-Stroke when you compare "apples to apples"-that is SST prop for the Merc or Yamaha and the service costs. The E-TEC will outperform both the Mercury and Yamaha, use about 50% less fuel and be a much nicer engine to own and operate with a lot less noise and without any smoke or cold start issues. Also we hardly sell any more carby 2-Strokes, nobody really wants them-even though on "face value" they are cheaper. What I see in the future is the re-sale value of these engines are not going to be great compared to an E-TEc, so the extra money you have to spend on an E-TEC will easily repay you come time to upgrade, and for the life of the outboard you have a MUCH better engine.

I hope this helps,

Huey.

[arif]

Good Morning Arif, good question you ask and you are correct. Every brand of outboard have families of engines, which run the same powerhead but have different carbies, or with the newer EMM controlled engines have a different fuel map/program. When comparing brands of outboard engines the cubic capacity of the engine is most important when it comes to the performance and the stress levels on the outboard to produce the quoted HP. The two engines you are considering are both good outboards but the Mercury 50/60HP is a much more powerful engine because it 967cc engine compared to only 698cc for the 50HP Yamaha and 849cc for the 60HP Yamaha. Also having three year warranty vs two year warranty is a benefit that the Merc has.

Depending on your boat I think the 50HP Mercury offers the best performing outboard out of the two you mentioned. What I would look at also is a 50HP E-TEC Evinrude, it will cost you more but offers better value for money considering you get a SST prop standard and 3 year service intervals which can add about $2000 to the cost of a carby 2-Stroke when you compare "apples to apples"-that is SST prop for the Merc or Yamaha and the service costs. The E-TEC will outperform both the Mercury and Yamaha, use about 50% less fuel and be a much nicer engine to own and operate with a lot less noise and without any smoke or cold start issues. Also we hardly sell any more carby 2-Strokes, nobody really wants them-even though on "face value" they are cheaper. What I see in the future is the re-sale value of these engines are not going to be great compared to an E-TEc, so the extra money you have to spend on an E-TEC will easily repay you come time to upgrade, and for the life of the outboard you have a MUCH better engine.

I hope this helps,

Huey.

Hi Huey

Thank you, this helps a lot i was concerned that the higher the HP for the same sixe engine the harder the engine would have to work, i will look into the ETEC, as i did not consider any of the 4 strokes because of cost, if i can afford the ETEC i will come in and see you.

Thanks again

Arif

[Flightmanager]

The Etecs are actually 2 strokes , but are as quiet and non polluting as the new 4 strokes. They have a much better power to weight ratio than the 4 strokes , try a google search for Etec vs Yamaha , or the same search on Youtube.

Ross

[vision21]

Good Morning Arif, good question you ask and you are correct. Every brand of outboard have families of engines, which run the same powerhead but have different carbies, or with the newer EMM controlled engines have a different fuel map/program. When comparing brands of outboard engines the cubic capacity of the engine is most important when it comes to the performance and the stress levels on the outboard to produce the quoted HP. The two engines you are considering are both good outboards but the Mercury 50/60HP is a much more powerful engine because it 967cc engine compared to only 698cc for the 50HP Yamaha and 849cc for the 60HP Yamaha. Also having three year warranty vs two year warranty is a benefit that the Merc has.

Depending on your boat I think the 50HP Mercury offers the best performing outboard out of the two you mentioned. What I would look at also is a 50HP E-TEC Evinrude, it will cost you more but offers better value for money considering you get a SST prop standard and 3 year service intervals which can add about $2000 to the cost of a carby 2-Stroke when you compare "apples to apples"-that is SST prop for the Merc or Yamaha and the service costs. The E-TEC will outperform both the Mercury and Yamaha, use about 50% less fuel and be a much nicer engine to own and operate with a lot less noise and without any smoke or cold start issues. Also we hardly sell any more carby 2-Strokes, nobody really wants them-even though on "face value" they are cheaper. What I see in the future is the re-sale value of these engines are not going to be great compared to an E-TEc, so the extra money you have to spend on an E-TEC will easily repay you come time to upgrade, and for the life of the outboard you have a MUCH better engine.

I hope this helps,

Huey.

Comparying apples to apples eh ?? isnt the E-tec range of motors DFI if thats the case this is NOT a fair comparison you cannot compare any EFI, or Carby engine to DFI. I dont think keeping gear box oil in for 3 years is such a good idea. Dont forget DFI was invented by an Australian Ralphf Saric [ok yugoslav origin] he sold DFI orbital engine technology to the USA MERCURY because we thought he was a nutter. Enough said.

[a boat]

Hi Vision, thank-you for your post BUT when I mentioned apples to apples I was talking price. The E-TEC has SST prop and three year service intervals so that needs to be added to the price of any carby engine. This can be upwards of $1500 so the E-TEC and a carby can cost the same and if you read my next sentence I list the benefits of an E-TEC compared to a carby and yes you can not compare the two.

You are entitled to your opinion and IF you owned an E-TEC you could drain the gear oil as much as you like, what BRP are doing is saying with the the high performance gear oil they run in the E-TEC it can last for 3 years or 300 hours and we have seen many E-TEC now that have done those hours or are older than 3 years and the gear oil is fine-we drain the old stuff and fill with new HPF oil and the customer is good to go for another 3 years if they so choice. All we say to our customers is to remove the prop occansionally and make sure that there is no fishing line caught around the propshaft causing the seal to fail-this should be done with any outboard-it is just commonsense. BRP are backing the E-TEC with a 3 year warranty, but if you want to replace the oil yearly or every 6 months, no problem-it is upto the owner. We have some E-TEC owners that are getting their E-TEC serviced every year, but please realise that not many outboards are going to do 300 hours in 3 years, the average an otuboard does in one year is 40 hours so at 120 hours that gear oil will be fine.

The Orbitial engine company in WA was only one of the pioneers of DFI 2-Stroke, and early on OMC had engines running with their technology even before Merc, BUT they discovered a better, simpler system made by a German family called Ficht, so they purchased the rights to that technology and what we see today in the E-TEC is the second generation of that technology, but just much better at doing what it is supposed to do- that is produce more HP with better emissions and fuel economy than the earlier design. The E-TEC system in our opinion, is a much better system than the Optimax / HPDI or TLDI system becasue it does not require a compressor, belt to drive that compressor(which do break) or high pressure fuel pump to atomize the fuel. All those parts plus many more parts in the other systems can cause the outboard to fail and you will never see the other brands go down to the HP that Arif asked about in the first place. BRP have had 9.9HP E-TEC engines running and it is my guess that by this time next year we will be selling 25HP and 30HP E-TEC outboards that will be excellent for the 3.9-4.5M tinny market which is so popular here. I personally can not wait to try one instead of being forced to run a gutless and heavy 30HP 4-Stroke which is all that is avaiable to us today if you want a clean outboard.

Have a nice day,

Huey.

[vision21]

Hi Vision, thank-you for your post BUT when I mentioned apples to apples I was talking price. The E-TEC has SST prop and three year service intervals so that needs to be added to the price of any carby engine. This can be upwards of $1500 so the E-TEC and a carby can cost the same and if you read my next sentence I list the benefits of an E-TEC compared to a carby and yes you can not compare the two.

You are entitled to your opinion and IF you owned an E-TEC you could drain the gear oil as much as you like, what BRP are doing is saying with the the high performance gear oil they run in the E-TEC it can last for 3 years or 300 hours and we have seen many E-TEC now that have done those hours or are older than 3 years and the gear oil is fine-we drain the old stuff and fill with new HPF oil and the customer is good to go for another 3 years if they so choice. All we say to our customers is to remove the prop occansionally and make sure that there is no fishing line caught around the propshaft causing the seal to fail-this should be done with any outboard-it is just commonsense. BRP are backing the E-TEC with a 3 year warranty, but if you want to replace the oil yearly or every 6 months, no problem-it is upto the owner. We have some E-TEC owners that are getting their E-TEC serviced every year, but please realise that not many outboards are going to do 300 hours in 3 years, the average an otuboard does in one year is 40 hours so at 120 hours that gear oil will be fine.

The Orbitial engine company in WA was only one of the pioneers of DFI 2-Stroke, and early on OMC had engines running with their technology even before Merc, BUT they discovered a better, simpler system made by a German family called Ficht, so they purchased the rights to that technology and what we see today in the E-TEC is the second generation of that technology, but just much better at doing what it is supposed to do- that is produce more HP with better emissions and fuel economy than the earlier design. The E-TEC system in our opinion, is a much better system than the Optimax / HPDI or TLDI system becasue it does not require a compressor, belt to drive that compressor(which do break) or high pressure fuel pump to atomize the fuel. All those parts plus many more parts in the other systems can cause the outboard to fail and you will never see the other brands go down to the HP that Arif asked about in the first place. BRP have had 9.9HP E-TEC engines running and it is my guess that by this time next year we will be selling 25HP and 30HP E-TEC outboards that will be excellent for the 3.9-4.5M tinny market which is so popular here. I personally can not wait to try one instead of being forced to run a gutless and heavy 30HP 4-Stroke which is all that is avaiable to us today if you want a clean outboard.

Have a nice day,

Huey.

No worries Huey,

OK, in your post you say, ''The E-Tec will out perform both the Mercury and the Yamaha, and use about 50% less fuel and are a nicer engine'' so why will it use 50% less fuel than the others? ALSO ''the are a little bit more expensive than others'' well they are, when you compare them to EFI and CARBY . I think by saying they are a ''little bit more expensive than the others'' is a sales pitch. The bloke would go away and tell his wife ' I want that E-TEC they cost more, so it must be better. I would say if Arif bought the engine is was based on my last comment. I would have any of the brands mentioned as they are all proven products and you dont have to OWN the E-Tec to comment on it. To sales pitchy for me.

I wish you a nice day to Huey.

Tony.

[Flightmanager]

They use less fuel because they are designed better , and burn the fuel more efficiently than the other brands.

As for them being more expensive , thats not a sales pitch , just a simple statement of fact , but you do get an awful lot of engine for your dollar.

Ross

[vision21]

They use less fuel because they are designed better , and burn the fuel more efficiently than the other brands.

As for them being more expensive , thats not a sales pitch , just a simple statement of fact , but you do get an awful lot of engine for your dollar.

Ross

Well I reckon my Ford is better than a Holden.

[a boat]

Good Morning Tony, I do not understand where you are coming from? The E-TEC and 4-Stroke outboard DO cost more than a carby 2-Stroke and YES they are a much better engine-that is not a sales pitch as you called it. To give you an idea a 50HP ETEC costs $800 more than a carby 50HP Mercury, but you get a SST prop and three year service intervals, not to mention the fuel and oil savings and a much better running engine. The ETEC would pay for itself in about 2 years of operation with the savings in fuel and oil. That is without taking into account the SST prop benefit and the fact that you do not have to pay anyone to service the thing for 3 years, if you so choose.

An E-TEC uses upto 50% less fuel because it is a Direct Injected engine with the fuel being injected into the combustion chamber after the piston has closed the exhaust port, therefore you waste NO fuel which makes the fuel economy and emissions much better than a carby 2-Stroke.

When I said IF you own an ETEC I was relating to the fact that it is upto the individual if they want to service the outboard yearly or every three years-nothing about weather you are able to have an opinion on them. I think if you did get a chance to own or even run an E-TEC you would see that the E-TEC is worth every bit of the $800 more and do not forget we sell carby engines / E-TEC and 4-Strokes and If I was doing a "sales pitch" than I would talk someone OUT of an E-TEC because we make more money on servicing a 4-Stroke or carby 2-Stroke-that is FACT.

Regards,

Huey.

[macka17]

Good Morning Tony, I do not understand where you are coming from? The E-TEC and 4-Stroke outboard DO cost more than a carby 2-Stroke and YES they are a much better engine-that is not a sales pitch as you called it. To give you an idea a 50HP ETEC costs $800 more than a carby 50HP Mercury, but you get a SST prop and three year service intervals, not to mention the fuel and oil savings and a much better running engine. The ETEC would pay for itself in about 2 years of operation with the savings in fuel and oil. That is without taking into account the SST prop benefit and the fact that you do not have to pay anyone to service the thing for 3 years, if you so choose.

An E-TEC uses upto 50% less fuel because it is a Direct Injected engine with the fuel being injected into the combustion chamber after the piston has closed the exhaust port, therefore you waste NO fuel which makes the fuel economy and emissions much better than a carby 2-Stroke.

When I said IF you own an ETEC I was relating to the fact that it is upto the individual if they want to service the outboard yearly or every three years-nothing about weather you are able to have an opinion on them. I think if you did get a chance to own or even run an E-TEC you would see that the E-TEC is worth every bit of the $800 more and do not forget we sell carby engines / E-TEC and 4-Strokes and If I was doing a "sales pitch" than I would talk someone OUT of an E-TEC because we make more money on servicing a 4-Stroke or carby 2-Stroke-that is FACT.

Regards,

Huey.

Hi. I got Opti 90.... Much better..

noisier... but more economical than E'Tecs that run with us out wide.

also don't drop into Limp home mode either... Cost wise.. about the same..

Regards Macka17

[a boat]

Hi Macka, thanks for your input. The OPTIMAX range of outboards are good outboards, they are also DI engines. Even though we sell OPTIMAX engines also I personally prefer the E-TEC range of outboard, mainly becasue of its simplicity compared to the OPTI. One word of advice about your OPTI, pay particular attention to the condition of your compressor belt, becasue if that fails, which we have seen, you are dead in the water, do not worry about limping home-you will not be going anywhere. Your OPTI also we go into limp home mode, called "guardian" mode, if the ECU detects a problem that will cause major engine damage, like overheat etc.

I again should be pushing OPTIMAX though because we would make more in servicing them and yes I think the OPTIMAX range of outboard is the most fuel efficient outboard made and that includes the E-TEC and 4-Strokes, but the extra cost of oil and in particular servicing where spark plugs cost about $40 each will cancel any little fuel consumption advantage the OPTI has over the E-TEC. I just do not like that single cylinder compressor sitting on the side of an OPTIMAX, it is basically a single cylinder engine with a piston, conrod and crank that can fail. The OPTI require 2 injectors per cylinder, again more to fail and that belt is a real weak link and for the cost of one, about $60 I would be replaceing every 100 hours if I owned an OPTI, even though Merc do not require you to.

I am glad you like your outboard and I hope it gives you many years of trouble free boating,

Cheers,

Huey.

[Flightmanager]

Well I reckon my Ford is better than a Holden.

You have hit the nail on the head Vision , ones mans meat is another mans poison. Brand loyalty ,as you have no doubt noticed is very fierce in the boating fraternity , but this is not to say that my motor is better than yours , it is just my preference.

Care to enlighten us as to why your Ford is better than a Holden?

Ross

[labrador]

being very uneducated in the way of boat engines, this discussion has been very interesting and more informative than articles I have come across in boating magazines. thanks to the contributors.

robMc

Same here robMc, been reading a lot about two /four strokes marine engine can't say I learn much, but this discussion, gee, almost give me the things I need to know about 2/4 strokes motors. Luckily I have a 40HP evinrude so when I update to e-tec I can always claim that it is a better engine and I am loyal.

Cheerio,

Scout

[namesay]

Very interesting to read this little debate. I must be doing something wrong here as I do about 450 -500 hours per year on my motors unlike the average 40 hours. I do a lot of trolling as well. With these points in mind I have gone to 4 strokes exclusively. THey give me the long life and great slow speed trolling. No fouled up spark plugs and oily smells.

My service mechanics love me! CHeers Kelvin

[a boat]

HI Kelvin, thank-you for your input and I am glad you like your 4-Stroke, but to say that it will give you long life is a bit hard at the moment because 4-Stroke outboards have only really been available for about 10 years. No one can show you a 30 year old 4-Stroke outboard still running, where I can show you heaps of 30 year old 2-Strokes still running. In fact last wekk we serviced a 1963 model 9.5HP Evinrude that ran like a champ. I could be wrong and in 30 years time your outboard might still be going, but it can not be proved yet.

Also your point about fouling plugs and oil smell relates to carby 2-Strokes and it is bit unfair to compare a 4-Stroke to a Carby 2-Stroke, not really apples to apples is it? This is what the 4-Strokes makers want you to do, but it is not a fair comparsion. What BRP do is say "lets compare an E-TEC to a 4-Stroke", they do not worry about old fashion carby 2-Strokes-they really are history and I think in about 5 years you will not be able to buy them new anymore because it is not cost effective for the outboard manufacturers just to produce a limited number of carby outboards for places where they can be sold new without EPA restrictions, like Australia.

Also any "old fashion" carby 2-Stroke with the thermostat operating correctly and using the right heat range plus and good oil DO NOT foul plugs anymore than your 4-Stroke would if the thermostat was not working or had the wrong plugs in it, so that is just marketting again by the 4-Stroke guys and you would want to hope that a 2007 4-Stroke or DFI 2-Stroke model engine will perform better than an engine that was produce say in 1980.

A DFI 2-Stroke runs excellently at low trolling speeds and DOES NOT smoke like a carby 2-Stroke can. What people have to do is stop comparing a 4-Stroke to an old fashion carby 2-Stroke, yes the 4-Stroke is better, but when compared to the latest 2-Strokes like E-TEC and OPTIMAX the 4-Stroke outboard does nothing better than a DFI 2-Stroke-that is FACT, they are both quiet, clean and fuel efficient outboard designs but the DFI 2-Stroke will outperform the 4-Stroke, be lighter, cost less to maintain, especially the E-TEC range and if out of warranty you are unlucky enough to have a powerhead failure they are cost effective to repair, where any brand of 4-Stroke can cost way too much to repair. Anybody that owns a 4-Stroke should ring their dealer and find out how much a cylinder head and block would cost if you have a mechanical failure or a corrosion problem, let me tell you they are expensive peices of machinery to repair as unfortunately a few of our customers have found out.

Just my 2 cents worth and again I am glad you like your engine and I wish you all the best with it. It is good to see that you use you engine as much as you do because when it is all said and done time on the water is great no matter what outboard you are running,

Cheers,

Huey.

[namesay]

I think australia is one of the few places on earth which still allows conventional old fashioned 2 strokes. Definitely their days are numbered.

The question is whether the modern DFI 2 strokes will stand up to use long term. No matter what technology, they still use oil in the fuel mixture for lubrication and they DO smell!. I agree that 4 stroke outboards are fairly new on the market apart from Honda who have always had 4 strokes from the beginning but 4 strokes have been in automotive use for over a century. All the technology and billions in research is poured into this form of combustion.

I guess outboard manufacturers with automotive connections will have 4 stroke technology which will meet the coming challenges of emissions control, reliability, longevity and efficiency. Otherwise we will not have any petrol burning cars to drive.

I do run a Honda 150 and it is one of the quietest fuel efficient engines going around. THe best emissions from the new ratings system into the bargain.

I used to run several different 2 stroke motors. Johnson, tohatsu, mariner, merc optimax even had a seagull but a yamaha F60 turned me around to the "dark"side of 4 stroke motors. Never looked back.

I guess BRP is having a bet both ways with its Etec and Johnson ranges. On one hand it is promoting etec as the solution to our boating issues yet on the other it sells rebadged 4 stroke suzukis as johnsons. What type of message is this sending to the market?

THe problem with E tec is that I still remember those 3 letters-OMC!!!! Cheers Kelvin

[a boat]

Hi Kelvin. Firstly why would not a DFI 2-Stroke last as long as a 30 year old plus carby 2-Strokes? The extremely tiny amount of oil that is run thru the fuel system to keep the injectors clean is counted for in the emission rating and the oil for the lubrication of the crank and bearings is not burnt in the combustion process and because unlike a carby 2-Stroke there is not fuel around the crankshaft etc the oil is not washed away, but I would like to know why you think that using oil in the fuel will cause en engine to fail prematurely. Do not believe that a 4-Stroke does not use oil either or worse they can make oil if the rings do not seat properly or the engine runs cold. Also the 4-Stroke guys are very lucky that they do not have to prove to the EPA that the used crankcase oil is disposed of correctly and not just poured down the sink or whatever-I am sure worldwide they are many pople doing thir own oil changes and are not do the right thing when they dispose that oil. The E-TEC range of outboards have the oil accounted for in the EPA rating which is still 3 star and EU compliant. They DO NOT smell, and I have probably driven more of them than most people as well as my share of 4-Stroke outboards. Please remember that if you troll alot an old fashion carby outboard 2-Stroke might smell, but a 4-Stroke will pump out Carbon Monoxide which you can not smell but it kills people, there have been cases in the states and here where on boats with the clears all up the fumes get sucked back into the elkele;';'pit/cabin like the "station wagon" effect and people have suffered the results of that. The E-TEC range of outboard is the CLEANEST outboard made because it meets the US EPA THREE star rating like your Honda, PLUS meets the EU rating that measure Carbon Monoxide and regulate it. A 4-Stroke outboard without a catalyic converter will pump out alot of Carbon monoxide and the 4-Stroke guys are lucky the US EPA does not regulate that.

BRP DO NOT sell 4-Stroke outboards anymore where they have an E-TEC in the range, they used Suzuki outboards rebadged as Johnson for a few years until they had E-TEC across the whole range, so they belive the E-TEC technology is the way to go and so do we, until someone can show me a 30 year old 4-Stroke outboard still running happily. You can choice to believe what you want but I think we have experience on our side. To say BRP is in anyway associated to OMC shows your bias also, in our over 40 years of dealing with OMC and let me tell you until the late 1990's they were an excellent company to deal with and until then OMC produced thousands of excellent outboard engines- alot more outboards engines than Honda has ever produced. When BRP bought Evinrude and Johnson in 2000 it was the best thing that could of happened and having seen the factory and HQ a couple of months ago, they have some very exciting products coming and I believe we are going to see the resurgance of Evinrude to where it was from the beginning in 1913 to the early 1990's as a premium product. In the US and here they are increasing their market share while most of the other brands are seeing there share drop.

Honda do make good products and yes they have been making small(below 15HP) 4-Stroke outboards since the early 70's but I have not seen any still running, have you? Yes a 150HP is quiet at idle but at 5000 RPM they are no quieter than an E-TEC at the same speed because being a 2-Stroke with its power advantage an E-TEC will only need to be doing 4000 RPM to do that same speed as your engine at 5000RPM. Yes all cars run 4-Strokes, but remember a car engine is a lot less stressed than an outboard engine because it spends most of its life at below 3000 RPM and gets rests at lights, downhill and they run on tyres, not pushing a heavy load thru fricton the whole time like an outboard. Also a car engine is cooled by a coolant, not salt water and as far as I can understand it the block for your 150HP is a car engine just turned on its head.An outboard NEVER gets a rest when the boat is on the plane and spends most of its life at 4000RPM or more when pushing the boat thru the water on the plane. I say to people all the time that out of the THREE main players, being Merc / Yamaha and Evinrude if they thought that a 4-Stroke powerhead was the best thing for an outboard then why were they not making them back in 1990? All big engines were 2-Strokes because they do a better job as an outboard powerhead. The only reason 4-Strokes have come about is because of the EPA regulations and E-TEC meet the toughest of those without sacrificing anything. The new rating system I guess you talk about is the Australia rating system which came into affect this year-all that is an agrement between the outboard manufactures that import engines from overseas to have an Austrlaian rating system that is the same as the US one and based on the star system. An engine that is THREE star in the states we and any other dealer fit the corresponding Austrlaian sticker once we fit the outboard to a customers boat. Honda in Japan have nothing to do with fitting the OEDA sticker.

Your comment about old fashion carby engines also is a bit inncorect, there are many places in the world that allow the use of 2-Strokes, still most of the US and Europe allow you to use them, the only thing is that you can not sell a new carby engine there. If they do not stop making carby 2-Strokes for sale here in OZ it will be a shame because instead of buying a $2500 30HP Carby to use once a month for an hour or so to get where you want to fish you will be forced to buy a $5000 4-Stroke and there is alot of people that do not want to do that becasue they will never use the engine enough to save that amount in fuel-FACT. But as I said in my eariler posts, people have got to stop comparing a 4-Stroke to a Carby because it is not apples to apples, a FAIR comparsion is to compare an E-TEC and 4-Stroke and when you do the E-TEC is the cleanest and the only outboard to have ever won the EPA clean air award, and that includes 4-Strokes outboards. Have you even run a 150HP E-TEC? You mention all the 2-Strokes you have owned and do not list an E-TEC, did you even go for a run in one B4 you bought your Honda? I am happy you like your outboard and I hope in 15-20 years that your 150HP Honda is still going for you.

I think this is best left here because we can go back and forth forever. It is fine that you like your 4-Strokes, but I just had to pick you up on some of your comments, which are correct when related to an old fasion Carby engine but not a modern DFI outboard like E-TEC.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Sammy0884]

Guys,

I will allow this thread- to continue, but i will be keeping a very close eye on it... Everybody has their own opinions on what works best in their situation, there are no BAD engines, just some that work better than others.

This thread has gone miles off topic from the original question from "arif" regarding yammie and merc 50-60hp two strokes.... So unless you have something further to add to assist a fellow raider in making their decision please refrain from poking at the ETEC/Optimax vs Two stroke vs Four stroke argument.

Cheers

Sammy0884 (Moderator)

Edited May 30, 2007 by Sammy0884

[vision21]

You have hit the nail on the head Vision , ones mans meat is another mans poison. Brand loyalty ,as you have no doubt noticed is very fierce in the boating fraternity , but this is not to say that my motor is better than yours , it is just my preference.

Care to enlighten us as to why your Ford is better than a Holden?

Ross

Give this man a BEER! Ross thats exactly what I was getting at, [its called brand bashing] I spent months or almost a year looking at engines you cannot go wrong with any brand but I did find if YOU dont know what is going on out there nobody will tell you. It is best to try and learn something about the machanics of the engine in question. I found induction systems where hardly ever explained by dealers CARBY,EFI,DFI,FOUR STROKE if you didnt know anything about it they will have you think that there brand is light years ahead and nobody has the same offerings but it did not take long to work out what was going on here and which company spent big dollars on marketing.

There has been a few classic examples e.g fan belts that can break, air pumps that can break[piston conrod] price of parts, but the funiest is ''2 INJECTORS PER CYLINDER'' being a bad thing. Let me tell you that any engine that employs 2 injectors per cylinder in either marine or especially automotive spells HIGH PERFORMANCE this is RACE ENGINE TECHNOLOGY not to mention supperior throttle responce and in some cases 1 injector per cylinder operating at low RPM only to increase economy [is it called ECO FRIENDLY]untill the throttle is cranked then hang on. AGAIN, ANY ENGINE WITH 2 INJECTORS PER CYLINDER IS HIGH PERFORMANCE and in RACE ENGINE TERRITORY.

Remember the operating systems in these engines are not unique to outboareds. There is a brand out there that uses there car engines for there 4stroke range. [modified]

Now guys, its not all Bathurst you know I can switch on the TV anytime and see a FORD competing anywhere in the world in either classic or Formula 1 thats why Ford is better.

Anyway why would anybody have somthing if it wasnt the best.

Tony.

[a boat]

Hi Tony, I have never bashed any outboard-I have said that everyone is entitled to an opnion and all outboards made today are fine and if you want a 4-Stroke then that is your right. What I have done is tried to correct false statements and point out the differences in the technologies used in the DFI side of things and I think you are confused when I say it has two injectors per cylinder. The OPTI range DOES not have two fuel injectors per cylinder, they have ONE fuel injector or direct injector and the other is an air injector that sits on the fuel rail and without both operating the outboard will not run. It has nothing to do with high performance as you claim, but it is the way MERC see fit to get good fuel economy and emissions, but as of 2007 model year the large OPTI are only 2 star emission rating, but I am not sure why they have done that. I personally would rather not have to rely on a belt, a compressor and more components on my engine if I did not need them, but that is just me.

As I said in my previous post and Sam has said this is way off the topic and I will bow out of this discussion now because it is getting nowhere and there will always be the mine is better than yours argument and I wish every boater many years of trouble free boating no matter what brand or technology they run.

Huey.

[arif]

Hi Guys

I got more than i hoped with the responses to my question and thank you all for your info (especially the technical details from Huey). When i asked the question i had no idea there was more than just 2 or 4 stroke to outboards but am almost ready to set up a my own mobile outboard service

I have decided which way i will go when i have the money together.

Thanks again

[vision21]

Hi Tony, I have never bashed any outboard-I have said that everyone is entitled to an opnion and all outboards made today are fine and if you want a 4-Stroke then that is your right. What I have done is tried to correct false statements and point out the differences in the technologies used in the DFI side of things and I think you are confused when I say it has two injectors per cylinder. The OPTI range DOES not have two fuel injectors per cylinder, they have ONE fuel injector or direct injector and the other is an air injector that sits on the fuel rail and without both operating the outboard will not run. It has nothing to do with high performance as you claim, but it is the way MERC see fit to get good fuel economy and emissions, but as of 2007 model year the large OPTI are only 2 star emission rating, but I am not sure why they have done that. I personally would rather not have to rely on a belt, a compressor and more components on my engine if I did not need them, but that is just me.

As I said in my previous post and Sam has said this is way off the topic and I will bow out of this discussion now because it is getting nowhere and there will always be the mine is better than yours argument and I wish every boater many years of trouble free boating no matter what brand or technology they run.

Huey.

No worries Huey, I didnt really mean you where doing the brand bashing I was refering to Ross and the boating fraternity being fierce which it is, but I guess in a thread like this its easy to ruffle feathers.

Anyway, the air injector does enhance performance similar to a turbo charger, if you can force air and fuel into a combustion chamber under pressure [injection] we all know what that means that is'' higher performance''

air injectors are common in high performance automotive turbo engines to increase responce before the turbo ''wakes the engine''

2007 opti could have had 3 star rating but at the expence of less HP. Those star ratings remind me of the yellow tick on food packages. [pay the foundation and you will get the rating]

Im done with this too, time to go fishing.

Tony.

No worries Huey, I didnt really mean you where doing the brand bashing I was refering to Ross and the boating fraternity being fierce which it is, but I guess in a thread like this its easy to ruffle feathers.

Anyway, the air injector does enhance performance similar to a turbo charger, if you can force air and fuel into a combustion chamber under pressure [injection]will all know what that means that is'' higher performance''

air injectors are common in high performance automotive turbo engines to increase responce before the turbo ''wakes the engine''

2007 opti could have had 3 star rating but at the expence of less HP. Those star ratings remind me of the yellow tick [heart foundation] on food packages. [pay the foundation and you will get the rating]

Im done with this too, time to go fishing.

Tony.

Edited May 31, 2007 by vision21