150hp Outboard - Etec, Verado Or 4 Stroke

[wise one]

I'm considering trading boats and looking at a large walkaround with twin 150hp outboards.

I would like outboards that are quiet, don't smell (like the old 2 strokes), troll well, are fuel efficient, don't cost too much to maintain (not asking too much?)

Love the idea of the electronic throttle on the Verados, but think they may be too complex, thirsty and expensive to maintain (forcing pressure in the cylinders must put extra stress of the engine).

eTecs sound good - 2 stroke simplicity with 4 stroke quiet. But - do you get the burnt oil smell like you do with old 2 strokes? Are they really as cheap to maintain as they say?

4 strokes - quiet, smooth, economical but a bit pricy to service given the (relative) complexity.

Weight is not an issue.

[bolan]

I have twin opti 150's on Day Release.

If you want a spin, let me know.

BTW, your walk around would want to be a big sucker................ unless you want to enter the bridge to bridge!

[Flightmanager]

to FIshraider Wise One , that sounds like quite a boat you have envisioned !!

eTecs sound good - 2 stroke simplicity with 4 stroke quiet. But - do you get the burnt oil smell like you do with old 2 strokes? Are they really as cheap to maintain as they say?

Yes it is true , in the normal course of events , you only need to replace the fuel filter , grease the prop spline and steering arm once a year, for 3 years . There are no oil filters to replace , belts to tension ,or used oil to dispose of. There is absolutely NO oil smell whatsoever , nor any smoke.

The Optis are a great motor , twin 150's will just about put you into orbit!!

The new 4 strokes are very quiet , and emission wise the same as the Etec , but.....

Lots and lots of moving parts ( anything that moves eventually wears and has to be replaced). Also , regular servicing adds to the overall cost of these engines.

As you may have guessed , I own an Etec ! Happy to take you for a spin in mine , ( its a 75 HP , but you will get the idea !)

Ross

[a boat]

Good Mornign Wise One, welcome to Fishradier,this topic has been discussed many times on every internet site and you will always get differing opinions, so here is mine.

I would prefer the E-TEC because it has the same noise and is a smoother engine than the 150HP Verado ( the 4 cylinder Verados are not as quiet or smooth as the 6 cylinder versions), the E-TEC has the same emissions rating-3 star, it is a simplier design with less moving parts and it will outperfom the Verado especially in the ability to plane the boat. This comes down to torque and there is no way a 1.7L 4-Cylinder 4-Stroke can compete with a 2.6L V6 2-Stroke, which has a power stroke every revolution. All this plus better fuel economy at idle speeds and at WOT and a lower cruise RPM becasue of the greater torque.

This is not even taking into account the extra servicing costs of the Verado compared to the E-TEC and do yourself a favour price up that supercharger and you will be shokced if you have to replace it out of warranty as well as the cost of a cylinder head if that fails out of warranty. I could be wrong but at this stage no-one can show you a Verado, or any 4-Stroke outboard for that matter that has lasted 20 odd years, but there are heaps of old 2-Strokes still happliy running and E-TEC is just a HUGE improvement on already proven outboards like carby 2-Strokes.

The only plus on the Verado side of things is the DTS, which I also like, but again out of warranty they are an expensive system to service and repair if problems or gremlins arise and I have heard of a few cases of this. Alot simplier to replace a $40 control cable instead of the "fly by wire" the Verado runs and the new design BRP control boxes are a big improvement over the old OMC designed ones.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Huey.

[bolan]

Good Mornign Wise One, welcome to Fishradier,this topic has been discussed many times on every internet site and you will always get differing opinions, so here is mine.

I would prefer the E-TEC because it has the same noise and is a smoother engine than the 150HP Verado ( the 4 cylinder Verados are not as quiet or smooth as the 6 cylinder versions), the E-TEC has the same emissions rating-3 star, it is a simplier design with less moving parts and it will outperfom the Verado especially in the ability to plane the boat. This comes down to torque and there is no way a 1.7L 4-Cylinder 4-Stroke can compete with a 2.6L V6 2-Stroke, which has a power stroke every revolution. All this plus better fuel economy at idle speeds and at WOT and a lower cruise RPM becasue of the greater torque.

Huey.

Well, you just gave Flightmanger a woody for the day !

[Flightmanager]

Well Stumpy , if Ive got wood , I wont be going anywhere near you !! I have heard what you do to wood.....

Ross

[wise one]

Thanks everyone, definitely going to look at the eTec, also considering the Suzuki DF150 (2.8L block 4S)

The boat I'm looking at is the Scout Abaco 262

http://www.sfba.com.au/scoutwa262a.html

She's a real beauty and can do 50knots with 300HP on the back (not that I'd be doing that offshore )

I've currently got a DeepV 260 flybridge - great boat but a tad hard to fish two up and not easy to run to the bow to chuck a lure at feeding surface fish.

The Abaco appears to offer a great cabin, but still give you an acceptable walkaround.

I've had a test drive in the 242 (smaller version) and the walk around is fine without compramising the cabin.

It had a 300HP Suzuki with electronic throttle - it was a BEAST

I love the wavegate stern which means you can reach around the back of the outboards with a short stroker rod (something you can't do with most large offshore outboard powered craft).

Roll on the boat show so I can compare and contrast both motors and alternative boats.

Edited June 26, 2007 by wise one

[Andy Loops]

Abaco is a great looking rig - with a couple of 150's on her she should fly.

We have chosen to power a new Boston Whaler with twin 150HP Verados. In part because this is what Boston Whaler recommend for the Outrage 240 and also because we have only heard great things about the motors (quiet, powerful, reliable)

No doubt Huey is correct with regards to servicing costs and the likely expense of any post-warranty issues. Also we did not choose these motors because we didnt like the E-Tecs; in fact they are an extremely impressive motor and are the preferred choice for many a blue water rig.

Check out this bit of propoganda

http://www.bassnedge.com/latestnews/mercur..._new_4strok.htm

At the end of the day you have to get a motor that suits your needs (and wants! haha)

Best of luck in your search - its a long road!

Cheerio,

Andrew

[wise one]

Mmmm

Lots of food for thought.

I would be VERY INTERESTED in anyone that can give an idea of normal annual servicing costs of (say) a 150 e-Tec, 150 four stroke and 150 Verado.

Its tough deciding between fuel efficiency, oil costs, service costs, longevity, etc.

[tankin]

I am a marine mechanic and i find the verado to be a good engine.

Plenty of 4 strokes with big hours on them.

look at 4 stroke inboards. rough old crappy things that do not get looked at still ruinning. All those car engines still running.

I am a carby 2 stroke person but i still think verado is a good thing.

id go a yamaha myself 4 stroke

Edited June 26, 2007 by tankin

[a boat]

Hi Tankin, wlecome to Fishraider, yes the Verado is a technological masterpiece, but it really does not do anything better than an E-TEC, while E-TEC outperform, are cleaner and cost less to maintain and service than any 4-Stroke. Your point about car engines is pretty invalid becasue they spend most of their life below 2500 RPM and have coolant running thru them, an outboard engine gets a much tougher life than that.

All I say to people is it will be interesting to see in 20 years wether we still have 4-Stroke outboards that have survived 30 odd years like many 2-Strokes have and are still going. I have not seen many Mercruisers of Volvo sterndrives that are older than 20 odd years and if so they usually have needed expensive services to them going, like manifolds/risers/gimbal bearings and more.

Thank you for your input,

Cheers,

Huey.

[pelican]

Hi Tankin, wlecome to Fishraider, yes the Verado is a technological masterpiece, but it really does not do anything better than an E-TEC, while E-TEC outperform, are cleaner and cost less to maintain and service than any 4-Stroke. Your point about car engines is pretty invalid becasue they spend most of their life below 2500 RPM and have coolant running thru them, an outboard engine gets a much tougher life than that.

All I say to people is it will be interesting to see in 20 years wether we still have 4-Stroke outboards that have survived 30 odd years like many 2-Strokes have and are still going. I have not seen many Mercruisers of Volvo sterndrives that are older than 20 odd years and if so they usually have needed expensive services to them going, like manifolds/risers/gimbal bearings and more.

Thank you for your input,

Cheers,

Huey.

Probably a really dumb question here but for the extra 10 kg of weight why don't outboards run a coolant and heat exchanger??? ETEC with and extra 10 is still lighter than a 4stroke and they should last longer with correct temperature etc etc. Hmmmmm Just wondering as there have been such great advances in weight saving maybe it's time to put some back and have a long lasting motor.

pelican

[a boat]

Hi Pelican, not a dumb question. Larger sterndrives have fresh water cooling systems that cool the block and help with corrosion because no salt water runs thru the block, which is good because they are only cast iron blocks and would corroded badly and quickly if subjected to salt water. Salt water does still run thru the heat exchanger and manifolds so that is why they need to be replaced quite regularly and can be a costly experience.

On an outboard there would be nowhere to fit the radiator or " heat exchanger" and all the necessary plumbing and it would hard to get enough air flow to keep it cold enough. Also because an outboard runs an alloy block or powerhead, corrosion is not much a problem on a trailer boat if it is maintained correctly and flushed with fresh water after each use.

I do not think we will ever see the day that an outboard is not cooled just the way it is today and has been for about 80 years-it is simple and the outboard run cool enough to survive and in fact in cold water (not really here in Australia, but overseas) there is the real problem of not getting enough heat into the engine especially at low RPM and light load. That is why thermostats are so important on an outboard wether it be a 4-Stroke or 2-Stroke, they are there to keep the engine at operating temperature when it is not working hard enough for itself to build up the necessary heat. The thermostat will stay shut until the ideal operating temp has been reached allowing the pistons and block to expand as they have been designed to. What happens in really cold water is that the piston will heat up quicker than the block, which has cold water running thru it and therefore the piston becomes too big for the bore and the engine can seize. It is important if running in near freezing water to make sure your thermostat is workign and allow the engine to warm up before asking it to work too hard.

Hope this answers your question.

Huey.

[Frantic]

I know i am looking at upgrading my motor but transom only alllows 170kg and 90 hp,so for 4 strokes

the lowest weighted motor is a honda 70hp at about 164kg.But the etec 90hp only weighes about 130kg

so i know which way im heading.

Craig

My friends just replaced turbo's and intercoolers and other assorted items on his 32 footer to a sum of

about 12grand and thats without labour

[bigbird]

Wiseman,

What sort of fishing are you into?? what speeds do like travelling at and your boat capable travelling at?

i think your engine desicion should also take into account what type of fishing you are into.

In my case i own a 6.5m plate boat and ran a 175hp carby 2 stroke for 5 years and was outfished trolling for marlin 20 to 1 and had no range to fish a 12hr day with 180litres of fuel. The long runs to browns and kiama canyons for bottom dropping would chew 150litres a day without trolling. Now i have upgraded to a 200hp honda and fishing last season i rasied at least a marlin every trip and most times raised more than 3 wether i was fishing Sydney, Kiama or greenwell point. I did not change the lures i run, positions, teasers, trolling speeds or places i fished. The 4 strokes seem to have a marlin raising hum to them at trolling speeds. as for fuel I have not used my 180 litres yet with 14 engines in one day on clock.

In comparison my mate fished a haines 680sf with twin 150hp fihts last season most of the times next to us for 22 trips they raised 2 fish and landed 1!! The guy fishing in this boat owns a 6m plate boat with a 4 stroke inboard and has caught over 150 marlin in it so he knows what he is doing.

As for servicing i change the oil every 100hrs (at a cost of $80) and get a mobile mechanic to do every other service which costs $500 with a new impeller.

i hope this is of help and doesn't confuse things even more.

If you have a spot on your Black watch next trip i would be interested in a ride.

regards

Matt

[a boat]

Hi Matt, thanks for sharing your story, but it is like comparing apples to oranges when you compare the fuel economy of an old fashion carby engine to a modern engine like a 4-Stroke-it is not a valid comparison. It has been proven time and time again that ALL the new tech engines will use at least half of what an old carby engine does.

Never heard a story about landing Marlin, so I can not comment, except to say that an E-TEC is as quiet as a 4-Stroke at idle or trolling speed, as for the frequency than maybe the marlin like the tone of a 4-Stroke more thanan old fashion carby or even the first generation DI engines-I do not know, but the E-TEC is a big improvement over both those in terms of noise and fuel economy.

I wish you all the best with your Honda and I hope you have many years of trouble free operation and that engine is still going in 30 years . Then I will be the first to say that I was wrong when I doubted the longivety, in terms of years, on a 4-Stroke outboard. We will have to wait and see.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Andy Loops]

This is a fantastic thread with people on both sides of the fence 4 stroke / new 2 stroke motors pitching in - I have really enjoyed reading all opinions and experiences on here.

I have been struggling to understand the mechanical differences between these motors - and in comparing apples with apples - only really interested in the latest motors on the market.

Found a great article on the net that I learned alot from - hopefully it helps out a few raiders in developing their understanding.

http://www.marineenginedigest.com/specialr...rsus4stroke.htm

Cheers,

Andrew

[Boban]

Never heard a story about landing Marlin, so I can not comment, except to say that an E-TEC is as quiet as a 4-Stroke at idle or trolling speed, as for the frequency than maybe the marlin like the tone of a 4-Stroke more thanan old fashion carby or even the first generation DI engines-I do not know, but the E-TEC is a big improvement over both those in terms of noise and fuel economy.

A fishing writer, David Green, has stated the exact same about raising Marlin with his Honda 130 which he had on his large plate boat. I know its not scientific, but that it appears to be more than a coincidence.

[a boat]

Hi Boban,not looking to start an arguement, you are entitled to your opinion, but has this David Green also run a 115HP E-TEC on his boat and posted the results? I am not claiming he is lying or not telling the whole truth, because as I mentioned in an earlier post I have not heard it, but that is not to say that it does not happen and yes you might have more success at landing a Marlin with a 4-Stroke outboard.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Boban]

Hi Boban,not looking to start an arguement, you are entitled to your opinion, but has this David Green also run a 115HP E-TEC on his boat and posted the results? I am not claiming he is lying or not telling the whole truth, because as I mentioned in an earlier post I have not heard it, but that is not to say that it does not happen and yes you might have more success at landing a Marlin with a 4-Stroke outboard.

Cheers,

Huey.

I've got no idea, nor can I relay the same experience. It's just the second time I've read the same story. Like I said, it's hardly scientific research, just interesting.

PS - I've got no problem debating issues, as long as no-one gets heated about it.

[wise one]

I've got no idea, nor can I relay the same experience. It's just the second time I've read the same story. Like I said, it's hardly scientific research, just interesting.

PS - I've got no problem debating issues, as long as no-one gets heated about it.

Question is - has ANYONE got any anectdotle stories on raising marlin whilst trolling with eTecs?

[mrmoshe]

E-TEC!!! there are some great E-TEC DVDs out which go through all the testing your asking about and show you how good the E-TEC's are. I picked up a few at the sydney boat show last year, Free!

If you want a copy of that E-Tec DVD..Contact Huey at Huett Marine. He has them and will gladly send you one.

Huey's Post on the E-Tec DVD

Pete.