Bimini Installer Problems - Need Advice

[Tidas]

I am having a new bimini canopy made at the moment on a second hand boat.

Today when I went to have a look at its progress I found that the original press studs on the windscreen had not been replaced, rather they had been snipped off with cutters of some sort, and new ones installed beside the old hole. The remaing portion of the old pot rivets remain in place and stick out slightly beyond the alluminium frame and are quite sharp.

This looks terrible as the old press studs have been there for quite some time and the windscreen frame had begun to corrode underneath. The only way to hide it would have been to put the new press studs in exactly the same location which is what he said would do.

He tells me he did this cause the rivets used were stainless steel and he couldn't get them out with his drill. But I didn't get a phone call to ask if he could do what he's done and to my eye he's ruined the top part of the frame of my windscreen, two panels of which are curved.

Any ideas what I should do ?

What do you guys think of this in general ?

I am worried because if I am able to match the shape of the alluminum U channel (which I seriously doubt) I expect it will be quite expensive and this guy will be expecting to be paid tomorrow.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Tidas

[Blood Knot]

Mate I dont get it - would of thought even if the guy had problems with his drill running off line from the harder stainless rivet and in to the softer aluminium as was maybe the case, that he might have had the prescence of mind to carefully grind the pressstud base and rivet back level with the windscreen extrusion and then punch whats left of the pop rivet back in side the hollow window frame with a centre punch. Leaving the original hole(in its original postion) to re rivet the new stud base.

There is no issue I know of that generally prevents drilling stainless steel, people make holes in stainless all the time - its only a genuine problem if its attempted with blunt tools/ drills which can cause localised overheating of the stainless causing it to harden at that point which further causes to dull the drill and create more frictional heat.

Sounds like he was in a hurry to get it done and you are left with a bodgy job.

Hope you dont have too many probs sorting it out with the guy that did the job - assuming at this point that he made the bimini to suit the repositioned press studs.

Possible remedies :

Remove the old poprivets as suggested above and fill holes and corroded area with aluminium putty and carefully dress the surface back. ( possible then etch prime and paint the windsceen) to conceal all trace

Tell the guy to buy you a new windscreen and fit it plus the bimini. (hopefull solution)

Pay him what you think the job was worth minus your costs to repair (compromise solution)

Tell him what you think of his work and pay him nothing (dependant of course on how big /angry he is)

Good luck with it Tidas - put up a post to let us know how you got on

John

Edited November 17, 2008 by Blood Knot

[brickman]

ask him if he used trefelex

there is no prob drilling s/s as long as the bit is sharp and the speed is slow and you use the above lubricant

he is in breech of contract and his actions without your consent have resulted in your loss he is there for liable for your loss

he can'nt hold your boat till you pay if he trys that ring the cops

how ever he can remove all the peaces he has supplyed and then it's your prob to recover cost from him

the best out come for you is to negatiate a solution he knows he stuffed up and will proberly come clean if you apply the right approch

e.g. mate that looks shocking i could have done a better job with a coal chisel and a lump hammer

if you remain calm and do'nt yell you should get an outcome

good luck gary

[Tidas]

Thank you John and Gary for your quick replies.

I appreciate the unbiased opinions, it good to get perspective on things like this, so I know that I am not being unreasonable. The guy has been in this business a long time and was recommended to me by a Dealer which just added to my suprise with this.

It looks like I will be having a very awkward day tomorrow. I hate being in a position that I have to say anything other than thanks for doing a great job and heres the money we agreed on.

I know I should be fired up about it and may well be if he tells me to stick it tomorrow, but at the moment I just feel sad that I have to go through it with him.

Other than a 5 minute water test I haven't even had the boat in the water yet.

Cheers

Paul

[pelican]

I'll play devils advocate to balance it up a bit. The result is going to be a compromise no matter how uhappy or right you are so approach it to get the best result. The perfect result is now not possible within a reasonable price is my guess so I'd probably not mention new screens etc as options in putting forward my case.

Arguements where your goods remain with the person your argueing with is a bad option. many people are malacious and since they will never see you as a customer again do little tricks like sand in grease of wheel bearing etc etc. If you are going to argue seriously recover your good first.

Stainless can be very hard to drill out when it is in a softer substrate like ally. The drillbit catches as you need to apply significant pressure on a lower speed and the rivot spins in the original hole. Due to the limited space for the hole in the new press-stud even if you can drill the old rivots out I have seen with corroded screens there is not enough good metal around the old hole even if you go up a size in rivot to get a new one fitted to hold.

I think the bloke should have told you - the option was probably 6 hours extra labour or cut em off and stick em next to the old ones. It of course depends exactly on what he quote you on.

It is a shame he didn't cleanly trim off the old rivots if he couldn't drill them out and then place the new stud quite close with a large stainless washer under it so it also covered the old hole.

I hope he used duralac under the new stainless press - studs and stainless or ally rivots so the corrosion and failure won't happen again in your lifetime.

The only way to grind or drill out the old rivots now is with a dremel ( mini die grinder) or cheap copy as anything bigger will likely leave bad scars on the alley frame. I would then just place a larger rivot in the hole left so it doesn't look out of place.

The bloke could have used a dremel with a carbide bur to start with and put the new press stud next to and overlapping the old hole.

A photo would be good. It sounds like pretty poor workmanship from someone who has represented himself as a professional.

Try and get a positive solution and get use of your boat as it ain't worth the grief long term.

Pel\

PS - beware of many ally putty style products as they have other metals in them other than ally and can couse issues. Possibly better with an inert fibreglass bog or non acid cure silicon / polyurathane like sikaflex for ally

Edited November 18, 2008 by pelican

[achjimmy]

Perhaps when you get it back you could neatly drill the old rivets out and put fresh rivets in the holes and touch it up with paint?

[Tidas]

Well I put my point to him, he eventually accepted that it was a problem and we agreed on a price that covers the cost of buying replacement top rails from CruiseCraft.

I have now have another problem to fix but atleast I won't be too much out of pocket.

And credit to him for taking it onboard and being professional when I picked the boat up, he showed me around his work like nothing had been said.

He has done a nice job on the covers too it really improves the look of the boat.

Anyway, thanks to everyone who offered their opinions, it was very helpful.

Cheers,

Paul

[brickman]

well done there mate sounds like the best out come for everyone

cherrs gary

[johnv]

well done with a positive outcome for u ;;;; & not even a arguement good ya

[pelican]

Top result- glad it worked out and lucky spare are avaliable

Not too many would have done that

[Blood Knot]

Tidas -

Really glad to hear it worked out OK with minimal angst for you.

As is so often the case these days, you seem to need to have sufficient knowledge around the job you are getting done that you might as well do it yourself.

Dont loose faith though there are still some good guys out there.

John

[Frantic]

Id like to see some Pics