Towing Capabilities

[petkovd2006]

Hi Fellow raiders,

Have been tossing up what sort of car to buy to tow an 18ft Shark Cat. My brother in law towes his with a Nissan Patrol which is a beast of a thing without any hassles.

Im not quite the 4wd man, prefer something along the lines of an Xr8 sedan which has more than enough grunt and towing capacity.

My bro reckons I will struggle hard on the low tide to get up the ramp.

Does anyone else have similar issues with larger heavy boats.

Any advice on past experiences will help.

[matthewjoiner]

G'day Mate

I have a late 2003 V8 Commodore and tow a 16ft Haines Signature. Even on the steep ramps my car doesn't even break traction. Even though your boat is a little bigger and heavier I still would confidently say that you won't stuggle too much on the slight to medium slope boat ramps. Most cars these days come with traction control, so shouldn't have dramas.

I must say the Ford would probably not be able to do it, but the Holden would!

Only because I like my holdens.

The V8s sound awesome towing!

Hope I helped a little

Denny Crane

[pjbink]

G'day Mate

I have a late 2003 V8 Commodore and tow a 16ft Haines Signature. Even on the steep ramps my car doesn't even break traction. Even though your boat is a little bigger and heavier I still would confidently say that you won't stuggle too much on the slight to medium slope boat ramps. Most cars these days come with traction control, so shouldn't have dramas.

I must say the Ford would probably not be able to do it, but the Holden would!

Only because I like my holdens.

The V8s sound awesome towing!

Hope I helped a little

Denny Crane

There is a huge weight difference between an 18ft Sharkcat and a 16ft Signature. I think the 18ft Sharkcat is in 4wd territory. I'd get a weighbridge figure but I think you will find the rig will weigh significantly more than the Commodore. Power won't be a problem but there is greater chance of the tail wagging the dog! Ie braking, risk of swaying or jacknifing will be a concern. As will pulling it up a ramp if it's at all slippery or sandy.

[petkovd2006]

There is a huge weight difference between an 18ft Sharkcat and a 16ft Signature. I think the 18ft Sharkcat is in 4wd territory. I'd get a weighbridge figure but I think you will find the rig will weigh significantly more than the Commodore. Power won't be a problem but there is greater chance of the tail wagging the dog! Ie braking, risk of swaying or jacknifing will be a concern. As will pulling it up a ramp if it's at all slippery or sandy.

Definately a weight difference. The boats about 2.5t. Say a ford or a commodore will probably weigh around the 1.4t mark or slightly more. Its funny, cause I was looking at the Nissan Xtrail and they actually have a lower towing capacity than say an 05 model XR8. The boat is braked. I guess in theory the Xtrail has the capabilities, but would it be all that much better than the car I would prefer.

[pjbink]

Definately a weight difference. The boats about 2.5t. Say a ford or a commodore will probably weigh around the 1.4t mark or slightly more. Its funny, cause I was looking at the Nissan Xtrail and they actually have a lower towing capacity than say an 05 model XR8. The boat is braked. I guess in theory the Xtrail has the capabilities, but would it be all that much better than the car I would prefer.

Yes but the Xtrail is a small 4wd - and a 4 cylinder at that. I'm talking large 4wd ie a Patrol or Landcruiser.

PS I doubt if you can legally tow 2.5T with a Commodore, in any case I wouldn't want to!

[petkovd2006]

Yes but the Xtrail is a small 4wd - and a 4 cylinder at that. I'm talking large 4wd ie a Patrol or Landcruiser.

PS I doubt if you can legally tow 2.5T with a Commodore, in any case I wouldn't want to!

2.7t towing capacity braked. Ha. We currently tow it with a Patrol 4.2l DT and of course it does it with ease.

I dont really want to be forking out that sort of money for a car, and one of that size is not all that practical.

Alternatively, may consider the Jeep's which are a 2.7l DT in auto. Again, only a 4 cylinder but more than capable.

It appears the 4wd is the real tow breaker, but I guess I would prefer not to head down that path unless really necissary.

[wrxhoon1]

If its 2.5 ton ( it should be just under 2t, if its over 2t you need brakes on all wheels and a breakaway system ) Falcon and Commie will not be legal, even if they were I wouldn't tow it unles it was a few hundred metres to the ramp.

You can't beat a heavy 4WD for towing, they are much more stable on the road, the a rear end doesn't scrape the ground as soon as you put 100 or so kilos on the bar, you are not worried that the rear end will bend ( its only sheetmetal where the towbar bolts on) and you won't go sliding on a wet sandy boat ramp.

I know the Falcondore V8 has the power but not the gearing to pull 4 ton ( 2t trailer 1.7 ton car and 300 kg load) . The don't have the heavy duty gearboxes, clutches, autos to do it either . They are ok to tow up to 1.5 t but no more. I know some people will say they tow 2.5 without any issues.

In your case I would look at the medium to heavy duty Jap 4WD'S to do the job and if you tow long distance a turbo diesel.

I tow a 6.5 mt Trophy ( 2.5 ton + depending on fuel/load) with a TTD V8 landcruiser anywhere with ease and I never worry about the towbar breaking/bending as it is part of the trucks chassi.

[petkovd2006]

If its 2.5 ton ( it should be just under 2t, if its over 2t you need brakes on all wheels and a breakaway system ) Falcon and Commie will not be legal, even if they were I wouldn't tow it unles it was a few hundred metres to the ramp.

You can't beat a heavy 4WD for towing, they are much more stable on the road, the a rear end doesn't scrape the ground as soon as you put 100 or so kilos on the bar, you are not worried that the rear end will bend ( its only sheetmetal where the towbar bolts on) and you won't go sliding on a wet sandy boat ramp.

I know the Falcondore V8 has the power but not the gearing to pull 4 ton ( 2t trailer 1.7 ton car and 300 kg load) . The don't have the heavy duty gearboxes, clutches, autos to do it either . They are ok to tow up to 1.5 t but no more. I know some people will say they tow 2.5 without any issues.

In your case I would look at the medium to heavy duty Jap 4WD'S to do the job and if you tow long distance a turbo diesel.

I tow a 6.5 mt Trophy ( 2.5 ton + depending on fuel/load) with a TTD V8 landcruiser anywhere with ease and I never worry about the towbar breaking/bending as it is part of the trucks chassi.

Hi Bud,

The boat with the trailer including a half full boat (2 x 200l tanks) is definately over 2 tonne closer to the 2.5t mark. The trailer is braked on all wheels (dual axle) relatively new trailer.

A 4wd was always an option, just wanted to know if a standard sedan would also do the job as the car would be more practical for me. Ive always been worried that it would not suffice and last thing I want to do is get into trouble on a ramp or worse twist chassis on normal car.

Will do some highway towing up and down the coast every now and then.

So do you think something like a Nissan Patrol 3l DT would do the trick. My brothers is a 4.2DT does it no troubles, but you can definately feel the weight of the boat behind the car. My price range in limited between $15,000 and $25,000 for a car.

[fisho1234]

Hi,

I have a 5metre cat and I use a nissan patrol to tow it, 4.2turbo diesel. The boat is just under 2t loaded. Patrol does it with ease and I have no problems at ramps especially on low tide or a bit of a steep ramp

[BFB]

Hi,

Towing a boat weighing near to 2.5T should only be considered with a large 4WD.

I have a 6.2 Litre Maloo and I would not even consider towing something of that weight with it. I have plently of power but when it comes to braking, cornering, etc I would not trust it.

Getting the boat up a ramp would be a real concern.

Only way to go is large 4WD and you will not be disappointed and should not have too many dramas. Going to anything smaller and you will only be asking for troubles.

My 2 bobs worth anyway.

[mr magoo]

this might be an option for you that you might not of considered

i have for the last 4 years ran a dedicated tow vehile,just aGQ patrol ,diesel

and had a normal family car

you could pick one up for 5 grand,just a thought

up until recently it was cheaper for me to have a cheap 4 cylinder runaround to go to work and pay the extra rego than to drive the patrol around

cheers arman

[fisho1234]

I agree with you Arman...I do have the GQ as the tow vehicle and a small car as an everyday car. This gave me the oportunity to set up the GQ as a tow/camper vehicle for those extended weekend fishing.

[robeebee]

GQ Patrol's are a great tow car

I wouldn't risk towing a cat with a sedan mate

ours is actually a Ford Maverick

same thing

[wrxhoon1]

Hi Bud,

The boat with the trailer including a half full boat (2 x 200l tanks) is definately over 2 tonne closer to the 2.5t mark. The trailer is braked on all wheels (dual axle) relatively new trailer.

A 4wd was always an option, just wanted to know if a standard sedan would also do the job as the car would be more practical for me. Ive always been worried that it would not suffice and last thing I want to do is get into trouble on a ramp or worse twist chassis on normal car.

Will do some highway towing up and down the coast every now and then.

So do you think something like a Nissan Patrol 3l DT would do the trick. My brothers is a 4.2DT does it no troubles, but you can definately feel the weight of the boat behind the car. My price range in limited between $15,000 and $25,000 for a car.

Ok then , if its 2.5 ton it would be ilegal to tow with a Falcon ( I think they are rated 2.3t ) but even if it was legal I wouldn't do it for reasons I and others have stated above .

Do you have a brake-away on the trailer? If not you are not legal, check the plate on your trailer to see the GVM, if over 2 Ton you must have a brake-away system.

You can have various systems depending on the trailer brakes, if they are hydraulic you can use an electro-hydraulic actuator, if they are cable your only option is vacuum. I can advice/help you with either if you need it.

A 3lt Nissan Patrol will do the job easy but she will be fairly slow uphills and the Nissan 3lt engine is know as a "grenade' check some 4WD forums and you will see what I mean. A 4.2 Nissan TD will be a little better ( older but more reliable engine ) uphills, on paper they look the same as far as power goes but in practice the 4.2 is a little better. If you like the Nissan ( they are much cheaper than Toyota used) go for the 4.2 but you won't find any wagons with this engine ( very few around )plenty of utes/table tops. $25 k will buy you a 2003 ST wagon or even later ex fleet DX in 3.0 lt TD .

$25 k will buy you an old landcruiser TD (80 series), later model (100 series) none Turbo diesel ( very slow) or a later model ( still 100 series ) petrol ( very thirsty). You can also look at Pajero TD 3.2 lt (2003 model) or an older Prado TD . They will all do the job in either manual or auto much safer than any car will.

All 4WDS hold their value ( used) much better than cars, you can buy an 04 BA Falcon 6 cyl for $10k .

If you don't have much weight on the tow bar you may have to move the axles to the rear of the trailer, you must have at leat 5% on the ball and up to 10% , use a bathroom scales to check when the trailer is level.

If the weight is to much for the tow vehicle you can use a WDH to spread the load on both axles on your tow car.

Good luck in your search.

[GregL]

Sedans stuggle on some ramps mainly from bad ramp angles. At low tide some get very slippery but worst of all some dont have enough angle and you have to sink the car muffler in salt water to get boats off!!

Are you willing to do that with a new XR8?

I hope not.....

Greg

[wrxhoon1]

How about a sensible designated tow vehicle ?

For just a cpl of grand u can get yourself a sensational valiant regal with a big V8 in it. Maybe an old fairlane is more your style ? Step out in style and make a scene at the ramp in a P76 perhaps ?

All got a massive boot to throw all the bits in...a good 8 will pull the arse off that sharkcat...it will probably even chew no more fuel than a stupidly thirsty 4l turbodiesel tractor under load also...maybe even a lot less.

Third party insurance only ($250pa instead of $1500)...who the hell is gonna steal it anwyay?...leave it outside and just maintain great tread on the rears. Wash it once a year...and replace it every 3-5 years.

Why waste good money on an ugly looking 4wd ? There are millions out there noone wants anyway, everyone wants to get rid of them so at least look around 2nd hand coz noone can sell them and noone seems to want them anymore.

I don't know where you got your info .

I speak from experience, fuel consumption on my 4.5 lt TTD is much much much less than any sedan towing my 2.5 rig , same with my old 4.2Lt TD , if they were petrol its a different story .

Have you seen any petrol trucks lately?? There is a good reason for that , diesel is much more suited for hauling anything heavy , more pulling power and much less fuel..

I wouldn't like to be pulling my $70k boat with an old V8 car , I would have to stop every few k's to check that the towbar is still on the rear and the sheetmetal hasn't buckled besises it would be ilegal . I would even be scared to hook up the WDH, it may bend the rear end with 150-200 kg on the chains ..

On the insurance side of things I pay $850 per year for my 200 series VX TTD , insured for agreed value $90k and in case of a total loss they will supply a new vehicle in the first 2 years .

As for ugly thats a matter of opinion.. Waist of good money ... again its a matter of opinion , you could say that for the boat as well , its to their own.. I don't put a price on safety ..

You think you can't sell a used 4WD , I have news for you, I sold my old 2000 100 series TD for $39.5 k and I had more than one buyer , the dealer offered me $37 k as a trade.

I paid $65k when she was new, tell me what other vehicle would keep its value like that .

The falcondores after 5 years are worth about one quarter of their new price ..

[petkovd2006]

Hmmm. Must have been a topic of interest.

The 4.2l do it with absolute ease, Im sure about that cause my bro has one and we have no issues. As for the sedans, some guys say you can, and some say you cant.

Legally, you can as the towing capbility braked on say the Ford XT is 2.7t

The two main things I would be scared of is safety first, then whether the car is capable. Ive seen cars slide all over the ramp trying to get up, and the ramps were not all that bad.

4wd are quite expensive, and I personally wouldnt now where to start. My budget is only between $15k and stretched to the absolute max to $25k. Is there much of a difference in what I can buy. I havent seen many 4.2l DT around and anything above a 2004 model go for well over $30k.

Is there an alternate style of 4wd that would do the job such as Xtrails or smaller 4wds. 1. They are more in my price range but if they are no better than a sedan whats the point.

[pjbink]

There's no point getting a boat if you can't tow it safely. Ie you have to consider the whole package. For the reason outlined here and from personal experience I wouldn't tow much over 1500kg with a Falcon or Comodore.

[vision21]

Are you sure the shark cat boat and trailer weigh 2.5 ton? anyway I tow around 2.1 tons [21ft] with my Falcon with lowed suspension & auto trans cooler and I have never had any troubles at boat ramps or any other troubles mentioned here.

Edited June 25, 2009 by vision21

[pjbink]

Are you sure the shark cat boat and trailer weigh 2.5 ton? anyway I tow around 2.1 tons [21ft] with my Falcon with lowed suspension & auto trans cooler and I have never had any troubles at boat ramps or any other troubles mentioned here.

Cats are a lot heavier than monos of a similar length, esp old designs like the Sharkcat.

[wrxhoon1]

Legally, you can as the towing capbility braked on say the Ford XT is 2.7t

I don't know where you got the 2.7 t from , its 2300 kg max and I wouldn't tow anywhere near that with a Falcon..

This is from FORD web

Falcon XT Wagon AccessoriesTowpack wagon - heavy duty

Maximum carrying capacity of 2,300kg #

Rigorously tested to meet stringent Ford engineering standards and Australian Design Rules

Towpack components include: towbar, towball, trailer wiring kit, load levelling kit and auxiliary transmission oil cooler*

*Load levelling kit is not compatible with trailers that have a single arm draw bar (i.e. some boat trailers).

# Subject to State and Territory regulations.

RRP: $1,739*

Part Number: ER19A009F / ER15A417B / U019B012A / ER19L009B / BAF7A095AA

I wouldn't use an Xtrail either , I would go for a medium 4WD like a Pajero or a Prado nothing less , even a Prado is only rated at 2.5 T .

The best tow vehicles are Landcruisers, Patrols or any heavy duty 4WD, they are built for heavy duty work , they won't overheat , you won't burn the clutch or overheat the auto coming out of the boatramp or taking off up steep hills because they are geared for it, if all else fails just use low range and she will climb anywhere , wet or dry slippery or not .

When you are on the HWY next time have a look at anyone who is towing anything heavy, mostly they tow with a 4WD .

[pjbink]

Seriously mate...if people have spent overs on their tractors they'll always tell you they needed to...then of course they'll insist u need one too. Some of the diehard 4wd warriors will even try to tell u they use the 4wd for safety reasons.

Have a look at the ramp/s you frequent and work back from there.

Guys were SAFELY towing 18ft sharkcats around on the back of V8's up and down the eastern seaboard well before leather upholstered toorak tractors became the weapon of choice for the diehard weekend warriors...and in general ramps are in much better shape and much better maintained these days. If a ramp isnt suitable it just isnt suitable...plenty of others. The only important one is the one u frequent. If a good 8 will get her up that ramp without an issue then thats good enough.

Spending an extra 30-50K more than u need to doesnt improve your trailerboat experience...boating is about boats surprisingly enough. If u dont do many long trips and the ramp is pretty good dont waste your money on leather lined tractors that u dont need and will find had to get rid of.

Well the 1:1 rule was in place in NSW until recently, so I doubt if anyone was towing a rig that size with their V8 sedan. It's probably overweight under a 1:1.5 rule. Aside from the more adequate mechanicals, gearing and the option of 4WD you seem to miss the point that a large 4WD has more mass than a sedan. Ie 2T or more vs around 1.5T. The physics involved make the heavier tow vehicle far safer.

[bender]

Hey i have a 6.5m carribbean reef runner she weighs 2.7t on the trailer.(put on weigh bridge). I have a ford maverick aka gq patrol. She tows it great. And tops on fuel. From milperra to cullburra 35lts (diesel). The only thing i find is going up a hill shes very slow.(2nd gear 40km/h) And she gets a little hot. Not overheat 3/4. But other than that i would prefer to tow with that rather than my 80series landcruser(petrol).. And the GVM of a vehicle is roughly is 1.5x the weight of the car. So the rta told me.

Thats just my 2 cents.

Benny..

(Bender/Anakiwa)

Edited June 25, 2009 by bender

[vision21]

Seriously mate...if people have spent overs on their tractors they'll always tell you they needed to...then of course they'll insist u need one too. Some of the diehard 4wd warriors will even try to tell u they use the 4wd for safety reasons.

Have a look at the ramp/s you frequent and work back from there.

Guys were SAFELY towing 18ft sharkcats around on the back of V8's up and down the eastern seaboard well before leather upholstered toorak tractors became the weapon of choice for the diehard weekend warriors...and in general ramps are in much better shape and much better maintained these days. If a ramp isnt suitable it just isnt suitable...plenty of others. The only important one is the one u frequent. If a good 8 will get her up that ramp without an issue then thats good enough.

Spending an extra 30-50K more than u need to doesnt improve your trailerboat experience...boating is about boats surprisingly enough. If u dont do many long trips and the ramp is pretty good dont waste your money on leather lined tractors that u dont need and will find had to get rid of.

Good point, anything around the 2 ton mark can be towed easily with a tow rating of around 2300kg, According to RTA when I spoke to them as long as you dont exceed manufactures towing capacity its legal same goes with Shannons insurance [yes the old 6 cyl falcon with 240,000klm and Hayman Reese towbar 600 Bucks] I have been doing it for years, down to Ulladulla up to Port Macquarie, Bobin Head, Botany Bay You name it and my auto and engine has never over heated, burnt this or that. I can climb any hill faster than most 4wd [except for a V8 land cruiser that showed me how its done with his 24ft Mustang on the back] A bloke on the F3 overtook me with his 4wd last summer and almost wiped me out when his rig started snaking all over the place. I reckon big 4wd and BIG boats do have a purpose but dont put all you confidents in one it really depends on your driving skills and knowing whats going on around you on the road you just cant day dream when driving with a big boat on the back 4WD or 2WD.

Edited June 25, 2009 by vision21

[dato]

I tow a caribbean intruder (2t ish) with a nissan pathfinder 2.5 turbo diesle with all the trimmings (leather dvd player) and my mates would much rather go melb to bermi in my 4wd over thier 2wd triton petrol. The pathfinder pulls better up the hills and never sways or anything untoward it has a 3t tow capacity and at a reasonable puchase price and good resale you cant go wrong with the right 4wd.