Phasing Out Fuel

[mr475]

Hello, guys and girls,

I have heard that basic 91 octane unleaded petrol will be phased out in the near future, leaving only E10 or high octane (98) unleaded fuel. Apart from this being unfair to motorists, how will affect marine engines?

My 70hp Yamaha handbook (2000 model) says it is built for 92 octane unleaded fuel. If a higher octane is used for some reason it may create problems and use of 92 octane should be resumed ASAP. It also shuns ethanol mixes.

So how will I stand? Will I have to run 98 octane and risk engine problems? If so, what sort of engine problems could occur? (The expensive sort, no doubt!)

Has anyone any knowledge of this? Don't tell me we will all have to buy new engines. Already the owners of older cars which took leaded fuel have to put additives in their fuel and can't use E10. Where do we stand?

[Bleeding Green]

Hello, guys and girls,

I have heard that basic 91 octane unleaded petrol will be phased out in the near future, leaving only E10 or high octane (98) unleaded fuel. Apart from this being unfair to motorists, how will affect marine engines?

My 70hp Yamaha handbook (2000 model) says it is built for 92 octane unleaded fuel. If a higher octane is used for some reason it may create problems and use of 92 octane should be resumed ASAP. It also shuns ethanol mixes.

So how will I stand? Will I have to run 98 octane and risk engine problems? If so, what sort of engine problems could occur? (The expensive sort, no doubt!)

Has anyone any knowledge of this? Don't tell me we will all have to buy new engines. Already the owners of older cars which took leaded fuel have to put additives in their fuel and can't use E10. Where do we stand?

Hi, I mentioned this problem in another thread a few months ago. Caltex in Sydney are already switching over and when I contacted shell they told me that it was their intention to do the same.

I also have a 70hp yammie, 2000 model. Is yours a two stoker? Mine is. I wasn't aware that we weren't able to put higher then 92 oct in them.

What are we suposed to do then?

[dunc333]

thats a good q. i have a merc 4stroke and i have been running caltex vortex which i think is 96, with no probs so far. my manual recomends 87 octane or higher and thats all it says so hoping huey might be able to shed some light as i think im ok but you 2 strokers not sure.

[Scienceman]

From what I understand you will still be able to buy 95 octane fuel. I also have a 2000 model 70hp 2 stroke yammi and have run 95 occasionally with no adverse effects of a single tank. However I do share your concerns that Yamaha only recommend 91 octane.

As an aside, when I fill up I usually have 1/3 - 1/2 a tank of older fuel remaining, which would be up to 1 month old. Over this time it would have lost some volitiles and thus have a lower octane rating than when it was originally put in. Therefore if it was 91 at the beginning and I put in 1/2 - 2/3 a tank of 95 octane, I am guessing that the final average once it has mixed in will be lower probably in the 91 - 95 octane range - would anybody more qualified care to comment?

[a boat]

Hi Guys, the brands we sell recomend min 90 RON so they do not have a problem. I have not heard that Yamaha only rate to 91 so a bit strange-have you spoken to Yamaha becuase I now any stroke Yamaha until 2008 model can not run E10. It is not a 2-Stroke / 4-Stroke thing becuase all technologies will suffer the effects of ethanol and if we are forced to use it some brands will be OK and others will not, the brand i choose to sell can run on E10 but the problem can be with the boat fuel system and no matter what brand engine you have if the boats fuel system is not upto spec then you are going to have problems.

It has been happening in the States for a few years and there is alot on it if you want to search.

If you can not get STD unleaded where you are get the premium stuff and with the new tech engines using alot less fuel it can go some of the way to compensate for what the greenies have done to the marine industry.

Cheers,

Huey.

[adjustedpete]

Im running a '96 yammie 40hp 2 stroke and I have been putting 95 octane fuel into it and I am having problems with idling and it seems to have some power loss too. I dont know if its my imagination, but Im gonna take it to Huey and see what they say. The fuel companies screw us again!!!!

[tuna1]

Does anybody know if you can use 10% ethanol in etecs without problems its looking like we wont have much choice in the future.

[a boat]

Does anybody know if you can use 10% ethanol in etecs without problems its looking like we wont have much choice in the future.

Hi, yes E-TEC are deisnged to run on E10, but as mentioned before the problem can be the boats fuel system and the fact that ethanol attracts water and you need to make sure you have a good water sperating filter in the boat and ideally use the boat regularly and keep tank full after use.

Cheers,

Huey.

[tuna1]

Thanks for thar advice much appreciated.

[Geoff-]

Even BP's standard 91 octane ULP now says "may contain up to 10% ethanol" even though it is NOT E10. So you might have 8-9% ethanol in your fuel anyway.

I can't see how running 95 octane in a motor "designed" for 91 could possibly damage it, although I am no boat mechanic!! I'd rather run high octane than ethanol, water separation is a higher risk IMO.

[mr475]

OK. I have followed this up with Yamha Motors.

Their technical people say that older motors (anything earlier than 2008) should NOT use E10 at all. But they should be OK with 95 or 98 octane unleaded fuel. However, there may be problems such as the engines getting cranky and a bit hard to start but their research has not shown up any major issues. This applies to both 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines.

Apparently E10 is not recommended for either marine or aviation applications. And it will dissolve your fuel lines if they are not E10 compliant and clean the inside of your fuel tank so that the gunk on the walls of the tank will come off and go into the fuel lines. They recommend changing filters often if you use E10 and also carry spares on board, the effect is so strong.

Another interesting fact is that with the characteristic of absorbing water, if E10 sits there and absorbs water to any extent, the alcohol will actually separate from the unleaded petrol and sink to the bottom of the tank. I imagine THAT will cause some issues. Geoff is correct. It would be worse than running high octane.

So the message (from Yamaha) seems to be that E10 should just not be used at all in boats. Just stick to 98 octane unleaded.

The good old government screws us again. And I bet the price of 98 octane will go up even further. Let's just hope it will be some years away before 91 octane disappears.

And just to mention that , once again, Huey is spot on with his advice. Just because an engine CAN use E10 doesn't mean you SHOULD use it.

Edited January 25, 2010 by mr475

[dunc333]

nice work there 475 .,i thought i was using vortex in my motor but after another look at the local 7/11 where i feel up it just says premuim unleaded which i think is 95 oct ,i will check 2morrow and post what i find unless a raider might no what it is ,the motor has had no problem with this fuel and i will continue using it.

Edited January 25, 2010 by dunc333

[mr475]

As a final note on this subject, I was filling my car at a suburban BP servo on Tuesday and noticed that there were notices on each bowser re what fuel to use in your boat. They stated that E10 was not suitable for marine application and that boats should use only 95 or 98 octane unleaded.

Maybe all servos will have these little notices eventually.

[wrxhoon1]

I wouldn't use E10 ( or any ethonol fuel) in any of my boats or cars as long as I can buy fuel without ethonol.

Even on cars the are made to run on the crap, its false economy because ethonol has less energy per lt than petrol so you use more of it.

I don't have any cars the will run on 91 so I always use 98 at a 14 cent per lt premium, I still use Shell 91 on my boat but not for long, when it all goes E10, I'll use 95 octane .

Even on any engines that are made to run on E10 it doesn't do them any good, the stuff is very corosive, next time you are at a servo have a look at to E10 pump nozle!!!

[myocard]

I've seen the notices at a few servos.

I wont use E10 for anything. That stuff will wreck your lawnmower.

Would it make more sense to run 2 stroke motors on methanol? From 2 stroke karting days it was suggested that methanol will burn cleaner, more complete and offer more power will less pollution than petrol. Modifications would be required for carbies and lubrication. Would this work for boat motors?

Edited February 4, 2010 by myocard

[pjbink]

I've seen the notices at a few servos.

I wont use E10 for anything. That stuff will wreck your lawnmower.

Would it make more sense to run 2 stroke motors on methanol? From 2 stroke karting days it was suggested that methanol will burn cleaner, more complete and offer more power will less pollution than petrol. Modifications would be required for carbies and lubrication. Would this work for boat motors?

It's worse than ethanol if my Suzuki manual is anything to go by. It says you may use E10 (but no higher), but under no circumstances use more than 5% methanol.

[Catcher cold]

Apparently E10 is not recommended for either marine or aviation applications

A little thread drift but E10 fuel is illegal to use in aviation. People tend to leave light planes outside for weeks at a time (like boats) and an engine failure at 4 thousand feet isnt pleasant and tends to ruin your day. Some older planes run 110 and its getting harder to buy also.

Sorry for the drift.