Diy Hiking Gear

[taloyoak]

Well I don't know how many people on this site are into hiking or ultralight hiking.....but I am and just wanted to see if anyone else is into making your own ultralight gear ( like jackets, tents, sleeping bags, tents etc)- Yes Centerpin I know you love it!.

I am just about to make my own goose down sleeping quilt- basically a sleeping bag sans hood, zipper so that it is basically a blanket and used with a sleeping mat. I am aiming for a total bag weight of under 500 grams, and a temperature rating of -7c.

I have attached some photos of similar bags made using a new ultralight fabric called "cuben Fiber" which is the lightest fabric on the market bar none. It is 100% waterproof, extremely tear resistant, and weighs in at .33oz per sq yard. About a 1/3rd of the weight of standard 1.1oz ripstop nylon or Momentum 90 fabric ( most common used on top end sleeping bags).

Anyway, just some different post.

M

Edited August 20, 2010 by Nanook

[gje]

I really enjoy reading your reports and am always amazed at the amount of effort you put into your fishing, especially hiking into the spots you fish. Now I'm really blown away by your intentions to make your own sleeping bags etc. How dedicated are you !!!!

Cheers,

Scoop

[Hodgey]

Very interesting Matt. Could you tell us a little more about technique and equipment required to make something like this please? Fishing or hunting, something that light would be a huge advantage.

Cheers

Ian

[taloyoak]

Hi Hodgy....

It would be a pleasure to rant on about sewing a bag!.

A bit of background: I have hiked/backpacked all my life, and here in Australia the majority of my hiking trips have been done in our Alpine regions or in the Blue Mtns, and between 1987 and 1999 I spent 2-3 weeks every single winter in the Kosci region backcountry skiing and camping- mostly around Blue Lake region and Gungarten and Mt Jagungal. I always tried to have the best possible gear and I always camped by hiking/skiing in to the places, so naturally it made sense to own light gear. I also worked during my university days in an outdoor/climbing store which helped the gear addiction. There are basically 3 items that you must take that always either are heavy or if light are prohibitively expensive. A Shelter/sleeping/cooking system setup. Currently the ultra light community are in 2 mindsets about tents. Either use a tarp/bivvy bag or tent. They both have their followers and pros/cons but for me I am a tent man. The lightest 1 man 3 season tents available come in at somewhere between 900gms – 1300gms and a top quality one will average out at around $700. Stoves are again a personal issue and as many places now do not permit fires, you either choose a Metho stove, white gas/Coleman fuel/shellite or a cartridge gas stove. For hikes longer than a week the shellite stoves are the best in weight to output and fuel economy. Cost is between $80-$300 for a stove. Titanium is the “standard” now for pots but again cost the earth- a 2 pot set is about $100. Then there are sleeping bags and pads. I will quickly explain pads- again key issue is weight to warmth factor ( measured in R factor), comfort and packed size. The lightest full length Thermarest( neoair) weighs in at around 400gms and costs just over $300 but is the size of a coke can when rolled. The cheap closed cell foam are not as good on their own either, and the big air beds are not efficient as they have too much dead air space between you and ground so your body cannot possibly warm that air up. Now for all of the above situations I am assuming I am camping in either the Blue Mtns in winter or in Kosci during autumn, so an average night time temp of around 0 to -3c. Ok now I come to sleeping bags! ( YAWN!!!).

I own 6 sleeping bags. 2 summer bags. Two for 3 season camping (1 synthetic and 1 down), and 2 winter bags of which the warmest is rated (and I have used it at -58c) to -60c, but it weighs 12kg!!! And is only used when in the Arctic out camping and you can throw it into the big sled behind the snow mobile, and a Mont Main Range overfilled Gore Dryloft winter mountaineering bag. Of all these bags, I really love the 3 season ones as they have a tapered rectangular design and full zip so I can open it up like a blanket. Ok enuff background and history.

My reasoning for wanting to make my own gear (MYOG) is simple: I want my own bells and whistles and choice of what colour, weight, and design. I have in the past made synthetic down anoraks, tent gear lofts, stuff sacks, and thermarest covers. I can sew but I am not very good at it (however my Mum is an expert seamstress in that she makes a lot of clothes and stuff for everyone in the family and friends). The problem with the current top of the line goose down bags is that they are charging outrageous prices (around $700-1000) for a winter bag rated to -20c or for a -7c bag around $500-800). Of the few Australian manufacturers of which I have owned/used their bags in the past, the only one I would be willing to spend that kind of money on now ( in comparison to purchasing from the US) is Sea to Summit who are actually just going to release their own sleeping bag line in October. I have seen them at a trade show a few months ago and they are definitely going to set themselves on top of the throne here in Australia amongst the best quality bags. Again though, they will cost $7-800 for a -7c bag. And for the top range bags they all make these “mummy” shape, which in theory is great but in reality unless you are in the Polar Regions or climbing in the Himalayas or Karakorum above 7000m, you really do not need a down “tomb” to restrict you from moving in the bag. Mummy bags “claim” to be more thermally efficient at keeping you warm; however it is really just a claim. So many factors determine whether or not you will be warm and comfortable. I am a moving sleeper, I hate lying on my back, and I always move around a lot at nite. Unless I was using a bag at its very limit of rating, I inevitably would open it up and use it like a quilt/doona. But then over time I reasoned with myself and thought why do I use this super technical bag just like a doona?- I don’t need all these extra features if I use it like this. The other important factor is that the down which is on the bottom of the bag which in theory is 50% of the total down is not working at all as you are crushing it. So all that excellent expensive down is wasted. Some manufacturers jumped on this idea many years ago and offered some bags without down in the bottom, and instead offered a “sleeve” for you to insert your thermarest or other pad. These were the pioneering bags for the top quilt movement, and amongst knowledgeable UL hikers some saw the potential of this concept, however even today only a handful of manufacturers offer this kind of bag or quilt. Simply put- although half of the bag is not working, you still pay top dollar for a super technical fancy looking bag, and believe paying $700 is getting you the best product. So from there I started researching the net for anyone else who had thought the same, and WOW! - There are lots of people in the same mindset. More research and time found me getting more ideas and research and found that there are about 5-6 “cottage” industry makers in the US that specialize in making these quilts. As you do not need the features of a super mummy design, you can ditch a lot of weight. The best quality bags all stack up with similar specs (weight, amount of down, quality of down, and price). The only aspect that bothers me now is that many of the manufacturers; both commercial and cottage “exaggerate” their claims on quality of down. Down is the small cluster that waterfowl use as the insulation closest to their skin. Of these birds, Ducks and Geese are the 2 most used. Goose is the best quality, and in getting the best Goose down, contrary to what most manufacturers and brands claim- it doesn’t have to be from a Goose living in a colder climate. It just needs to be from a more mature bird. So because it takes more time for an adult goose to mature, hence you pay more for it. Bags are typically given ratings in total weight of down fill, and the quality of down, which many people get confused about when they look at buying an $800 bag. My new bag will contain about 500 gm’s of down and the quality will be 800-900 loft. That loft means that 1 cubic ounce of this particular down will fill a cylinder of between 800-900cm3. However, the standards of what the various manufacturers have to adhere to is loose- and so a bag claiming 900 loft can have a 15% margin of error, in that it may only be 850 loft. Currently the highest quality of Goose Down available anywhere in quantities for sleeping bags is closer to 800 loft. Very few companies are willing to state 900 loft, but some do, and 90% of people have no idea about what is the factual and stretched truth. The good thing is that the higher quality down, although extremely expensive will actually last longer than a lower quality down. Also almost all manufacturers invariably mix some feathers in with the down, so giving a ratio of say 90/10 down- meaning 90% down and 10% feathers. They do this for a few reasons- cost, add bulk, and also to help the down loft (expand after being squashed). Unfortunately feathers do not insulate at all. The cheap $50-100 sleeping bags use this in 60/40, 70/30, 80/20 configurations, and also they tend to use low quality duck down. For example – a well known brand of outdoor gear that makes their own brand ( starts with a big K and ends in U ) use a much lower quality of both goose and duck down in their bags and jackets, hence a cheaper item.

So for me, the next step was determining what material should I use? Simple!- not really. All the top end bags use a virtually similar fabric/textile for both the outside (shell) and inside (lining) - that being ripstop nylon, with usually a 1.1 ounce/yard weight, and a DWR (Durable Water Repellent) finish. And this fabric gets given many different names and claims by each manufacturer but essentially it is made by either DuPont or Pertex. Both manufacturers will not sell to the public unless you by 500 yards minimum. So really there are only a handful of people in the US that make available these materials in the small quantities that we require. These textiles share some common performance. They need to be “downproof” so that down doesn’t leak out. It needs to be reasonably abrasion and tear resistant, needs to breathe really well and provide somewhat of a windproofness. But.... there is a “new” textile that has been made now for a few years, and has just been “discovered” by the band of ultra lightweight hikers in the US, who are beyond fanatical about hiking with the lightest possible setup. This fabric/textile is called “ Cuben Fiber”. In its lightest weight it is 2/3^rd’s lighter than any of the DuPont or Pertex fabrics, plus it is waterproof!. It also has much better puncture and tear resistance than any of the nylon fabrics. It was originally designed for sails on yachts. It is like comparing the invention of DuPont’s Kevlar textile to use as body armour/bullet proof vests. It is that good!. So now there are a small band of hardcore ultra light hikers making tents, packs, tarps and now sleeping bags from CF. But because the fabric is waterproof/windproof- it is unfortunately not breathable. So for sleeping bags made from CF this represents a problem. The average adult male loses about a litre of water a night from what is called “insensible loss”- basically through sweating, breathing. So for a sleeping bag that doesn’t allow this vapour to escape from the person, through the bag, and outside can and does mean that you will over time cause the down to retain some of this moisture and hence the down will not fully loft. For 1 or 2 nights it isn’t an issue, but for extended trips of more than a week it is a significant concern. For many years people have been doing this by using what is known as a “Vapour Barrier”. VB’s have their uses, mainly for mountaineering or polar expeditions where you use a VB to enable you to use a lighter rated bag to keep you warm. VB’s are excellent at retaining body heat losses, but the moisture causes some issues. For CF used in making a sleeping bag or quilt- you need to make a part of the bag with a breathable material like Momentum 90 or any of the standard Pertex fabrics. Also the M90 enables air to be drawn in to help the bag loft or expand after being in a stuff sack. There is only one cottage manufacturer currently that I know of that makes sleeping bags from CF and M90 and he is making a full time job of it now, and his bags for a 6ft long and rating of about -5c weigh in at 442gm’s. The pictures of the off white and black bag are the one that he makes. But.... not to knock him, but the quality of workmanship is average (as you can see from the photos), and my Mum will be able to sew to a standard of the top of the line bags made. At 39 y.o I am just starting out in my endeavour to master sewing. It is a great skill to have, and I am going to purchase an industrial sewing machine which from what I have seen in the Trading Post will set me back about $500. I have many ideas and hope to put them into use soon.

Ok, so after that long spiel, here is more info on the procedure.

I bought a cheap mummy bag online the other day for $90. It is a synthetic bag, rated to -5c. It fits me well with a bit of room to move and not too tight across my shoulders. I am 6ft1” and 85kg. So I am going to dismantle the bag in order to make a detailed pattern. Alternatively you can purchase a pattern from a place in the US from where I bought my materials. Or you can just guestimate and make a pattern. That is relatively easy. The next step is to cut your fabric with allowances for seams, and for down baffles etc a general 10% extra rule applies. It is far better to make a bag a little bigger than too small. I won’t go into details about the sewing per se but it isn’t difficult to do, but in order to get a professional look you need to take time and good sewing skills ( thanks Mum!). The most critical factor in making any down bag or garment is in the internal structure of the “baffles”. Baffles are what hold the down in place within the bag/jacket etc. They are usually made from the lightest downproof material and for my bag I am using No See Um netting which is the lightest weight mozzie netting used on tent doors and windows. There are many ways to construct the baffles and some are very difficult and also require you to have a PhD, but for my purpose I am just constructing standard box wall baffles. Think of rectangular tubes made from mesh and the down is filled into these rectangular bricks. Top end bags have these baffles offset, and in fancy configurations which claim to keep you warmer etc, but most of the time it is just crap. Down is down- as long as it is able to fully loft (or expand) then it will work. I am going to make it so the down cannot be shifted around the bag as I know that I will place the majority (around 60%) on the top, then 20% either side(s). Many people make the baffles “sewn thru” so you can kind of shift the down around inside the bag to move it from side to side etc, but I just prefer my option. More work but I think better for me. From the photos I have posted, you can see that the bag is divided into sections which are generally equal in width, then tapering in length as you go down to the foot section. Now I am going to make the box foot section not totally sewn like in the photos ( or in the CF white bag there is a small zipper), but will use thin Velcro or button snaps – whichever is lighter in weight. So I have the option of totally opening the bag up or making a box foot for my feet if it is colder. No zipper of course, but an offset draw cord will enable the bag to be drawn together like a normal bag when I need to. The cord will be either the lightest weight Spectra cord or if that isn’t any good, will use a thin elastic cord. I will attach two thin strips of nylon flat tape with either Velcro tabs or snap locks so that the quilt can be held against a thermarest if needed. There are two thoughts on head/hood parts. One is to just make the bag so it comes up to just above you shoulder height, and wear a beanie to sleep if it is cold or make a detachable hood that you can attach via zipper or Velcro. I will use the beanie option as from experience know that it works for me in all but Polar camping. There is one other option I am tossing up at the moment and that is whether or not to make a thin “sleeve” inside the bag as a full length of M90 fabric so that I can attach a emergency space blanket (foil) inside a sleeve to use as a vapour barrier or booster if needed. Using a space blanket which weighs almost nothing in this way can boost the temperature rating by as much as 15c!!!. But I have to figure out if the extra grams are worth it. I am hoping that the finished weight of the bag will be less than 600 grams. Next year in March I am hopefully going to do the Australian Alps Walking Track which is a 700km hike from Walhalla in Vic to Tharwa near Canberra ACT. It will take me around 50-60 days, and I will do it solo and use food caches/drops preplaced at intervals so that I carry only a maximum of 7 days food and fuel. So I have been slowly planning this trip and in doing so will obviously aim for the most lightweight feasible options. One thing that I am a big believer in is that you can go “too far” in ultra light gear, to the point where you sacrifice comfort. Now I am prepared for a bare bones set up, but one area I will not make shortcuts is in sleeping. This is the most critical thing after food. If you are cold and not comfortable then you will be miserable and cannot re-energize yourself for the next day. In the past I have done some big trips where I was freezing all night because I took a lightweight sleeping bag and froze for 7 days to the point where all I looked forward to was the morning and the sun. I learnt a lesson there.

Anyway I have spent enough time replying to you.....LOL!, as you know I can rant on forever. I have some great ideas on UL gear, and I will post detailed photos of the entire making procedures of the bag in the weeks to come. I am really excited about this, because there is nothing better than making your own gear- just like making a custom rod like Cephalopod or your own lures/poppers/flies etc. The total cost should come in at under $300. A bag made by someone else will come in at around $5-600 AU for the same bag as I am making, so that is a big saving!.

Thanks for the interest, I appreciate your comments. I know this is off topic for Fishraider, but I hate logging in and no-one has bothered to put up any new and interesting posts, so everyone that reads this- get out there and type some good reports, because all of us here love to hear/read them. I am heading back to Kanangra on Monday morning, too busy today to get my act together for tomorrow start.

I wonder who wins tonite?. Go the Sex Party!!!....LOL!.

Cheers,

Matt

[Hodgey]

A huge thanks for your in-depth response Matt. I have read it ... and read it again! I have now printed it off and am going to show it to several hunting/fishing mates of mine who will be very interested in what you've discussed (particularly some of the temps you have endured in the past!) I have had different sleeping bags/bivvies over the years and can appreciate the importance of comfort (especially when you have to roll out of it at some ungodly hour for a piquet or stand to ) For too long I was under the impression that saving weight meant compromising quality or comfort.

A terrific read as always mate. Best of luck in the mountains next week. I look forward to more photos and amusing anecdotes

Cheers

Hodgey

[troutboy]

Great work Matt, I really admire your dedication. 600gm weight with those thermal properties I think you are onto a winner. will give you a call tonight cheers Jamie