BreamMeUpScotty Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I've been informed in the posts as well as in conversation with tacklos and fishos that magnesium body on reels like Sensilite MG and saltwater don't go well together and using reels with magnesium construction in saltwater is asking for trouble. My question is: the Daiwa Luvias is a magnesium body as well and why is it that it can be used in saltwater but not the shimano counterparts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethro Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 From what I understand saltwater and magnessium are not a good mix. I am led to believe that the newer Mag reels are treated with a special coating to make them and up in saltwater. I am sure Swoffa would have 1 (or 5 ) Mag reels in his collection. Maybe he could shed a bit more light on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantm Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) Heres a technical tid bit. Magnesium is one the most corrosive of the metals depending on conditions. Its rate of corrosion can depend on humidity, temperature, and what type of magnesium it is. Magnesium is generally a combination of Zinc and manganese and needs to be properly treated to resist corrosion. Untreated magnesium would corrode away as quick as the zinc anode on you motor. Treated magnesium reels will resist corrosion but its hard to see it being better than aluminium frames. Perhaps the Daiwa reels have got a particular resistant protection coating that allows them to be used in salt, whereas Shimano doesnt bother. I cant see that having a magnesuim reel is anything more than a gimmick to be different than the rest. Metal will always return to its natural state by way of corrosion. You cant beat nature. Some metals will do this quicker than others. Gold is at the top of the list for the slowest rate, while zinc and blended metals like magnesium alloy are at the bottom and dissolve quicker. In saying all that though perhaps a reel made from magnesium will simply wear out before it corrodes away...... Edited June 28, 2005 by Grantm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreamMeUpScotty Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 OK, who's first to bring out the gold reel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantm Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 OK, who's first to bring out the gold reel? 55253[/snapback] Dunno but I reckon Swoffa will have one first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Spary Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Saltwater and Magnesium definately do not mix, well they do sort of, but the end result is quite catostrophic for the reel. The Luvias, Airity and Fuego all have a magnesium alloy body but the coating on it allows for use in saltwater. We also produce a couple of reels that definatley can NOT be used in saltwater such as the Team Daiwa Z 103H and Liberto Pixy. The reason why they use magnesium in reels is for weight reduction. Magnesium alloy's are incredibly light yet very strong and fairly cheap to produce when campared to other light weight alloy's that use titanium. Most of the top end reels produced by Daiwa that use magnesium are originally designed for the Japanese domestic and American bass markets. Where it is all freshwater fishing. Hence they can get away with using more magenesium in the reels to reduce weight and not have to worry about corrosion issues. Us Aussies love this top end gear and try and apply it to our market which is predominately salt water. Hence the extra coating protection we offer on some models. Don't forget that even reels with a coating if they are not cared for properly, will corrode. Aluminum based frames will also suffer if your gear is not looked after. Evan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantm Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Magnesium is a base metal - it is not an alloy. Rember the strips of metal that the science teacher would light abd that burned with an intense white light.Of course, it is useless unless alloyed. However, it is extremely light, which is what is desirable about it. 55257[/snapback] Sorry, I should have added that I meant Magnesium in its manufactured state as used in the finished product. Good to hear from you Evan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreamMeUpScotty Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Evan, while you're online I have a few other queries about the top end stuff that you (or your company makes). I read somewhere the certates mechanisms are much more complex than the normal spinning reels and as such, the home DIY person is not able to pull apart the reel for relubricating, greasing etc. Is that true? Secondly, the certate is made up of "Super Metal" which I take it is not the same as the Air metal (magnesium alloy). What metal is it made up of? Is that why they're heavier than the Luvias for the same size? Thirdly, the Caldia Kix (also Real Four concept) is said to have a plastic rotor where the certate is fully metal. Is that true? Maybe, a more accurate question is what is the difference between the Caldia Kix and the certate apart from the price tag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankles Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 OK, who's first to bring out the gold reel? 55253[/snapback] hi there scotty . i think it was penn game reel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jocool Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I read somewhere the certates mechanisms are much more complex than the normal spinning reels and as such, the home DIY person is not able to pull apart the reel for relubricating, greasing etc. Is that true? 55261[/snapback] Scotty...From what I understand from a previous post, the reason it is hard to DIY is that the body itself is preassurised and sealed. You wouldn't have the equipment at home to do it I would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreamMeUpScotty Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Evan, while you're online I have a few other queries about the top end stuff that you (or your company makes). I read somewhere the certates mechanisms are much more complex than the normal spinning reels and as such, the home DIY person is not able to pull apart the reel for relubricating, greasing etc. Is that true? Secondly, the certate is made up of "Super Metal" which I take it is not the same as the Air metal (magnesium alloy). What metal is it made up of? Is that why they're heavier than the Luvias for the same size? Thirdly, the Caldia Kix (also Real Four concept) is said to have a plastic rotor where the certate is fully metal. Is that true? Maybe, a more accurate question is what is the difference between the Caldia Kix and the certate apart from the price tag? 55261[/snapback] Anyone else want to answer the remaining questions? I'm about two weeks away from getting a certate and I want to make sure I have all the bases covered before investing a week's wage into a reel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jocool Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Anyone else want to answer the remaining questions? I'm about two weeks away from getting a certate and I want to make sure I have all the bases covered before investing a week's wage into a reel. 55282[/snapback] It couldnt hurt to give Mick a call at ABA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Spary Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Certates internally are a fairly simple design. The complex and dangerous part for DIY guys is how the parts are handled. Drop a gear, scratch the main shaft etc and you would be looking at a pricey fix. We can not force people to have these reels serviced by us we only recommend it. There are special greases used, certain quantities of grease used, special tools etc. The warranty issue comes into it as well. For example you have a knocking or grinding noise. If you have opened the reel yourself there is no way we can tell if the fault caused by you or the factory. Due to the expensive nature of the reel they naturally have expensive parts. Having us service the reel for you assures you peace of mind. If our mechanic drops the main gear or uses to much grease its on our heads to fix it. Super Metal as i understand it doesn't have as much magnesium in it as Air Metal. Hence slightly heavier. Although those two reels designs are completely different as well. Sorry mate i have absolutely no idea what its exact components are and i would imagine they are quite a trade secret as well. Kix has a graphite, not plastic, rotor instead of super metal. Essentially the basic design is completey different. Certates are pretty unique in their design. I would say that the Kix 'borrows' a lot of the design features from the Certates. Also alot of the materials are different, graphite and plastic in certain places instead of super metal. Less bearings, the gears are made of a different material as well. Handle design is different, doesn't quite have the exact Engine Plate design of the Certate. All of this equates to a similar design of reel in a cheaper price point. Evan Evan, while you're online I have a few other queries about the top end stuff that you (or your company makes). I read somewhere the certates mechanisms are much more complex than the normal spinning reels and as such, the home DIY person is not able to pull apart the reel for relubricating, greasing etc. Is that true? Secondly, the certate is made up of "Super Metal" which I take it is not the same as the Air metal (magnesium alloy). What metal is it made up of? Is that why they're heavier than the Luvias for the same size? Thirdly, the Caldia Kix (also Real Four concept) is said to have a plastic rotor where the certate is fully metal. Is that true? Maybe, a more accurate question is what is the difference between the Caldia Kix and the certate apart from the price tag? 55261[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreamMeUpScotty Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Thanks for that. What does it cost to bring the reel in for a "one year service" with no perceivable problems but just to have it lubed as you would for a 5000km regular car maintenance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Spary Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 $20 + GST for spinning reels $30 + GST for overheads This includes total stripdown and regrease but does not include any parts needed. Thanks for that. What does it cost to bring the reel in for a "one year service" with no perceivable problems but just to have it lubed as you would for a 5000km regular car maintenance? 55288[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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