Quintrex - 12 Month Inspection

[fragmeister]

Like others I have heard some of the horror stories regarding Quintrex build quality and in particular there have been issues in the past with cracking welds.

My Quintrex 570 Lazeabout is almost 12 months old and needed its 100 hour service so before doing so I went over the boat with an engineer mate of mine to make sure that there were no issues with the boat. We reported any issues and they were fixed by the dealer with one exception.

This is what we found.

1) We found 1 small cracked weld which seemed to be a tack rather than a full weld. While this was all good it was a pain to remove all the decking and floatation to inspect the welds but for peace of mind I had to do it. The whole process took about 5 hours. We didn't report the tack weld as an issue. I will do this every 12 months with particular attention at the end of the hull warranty period.

2) The fuel gauge was not properly wired which explained why it never worked in the first place... I just figured it was me not knowing how to select the feature on the gauges. This was fixed by the dealer.

3) The trailer had a split plastic guide... my fault, I hit it a little hard in 30 knot cross winds putting the boat back on. They replaced that for me for the cost of the part (about $40).

4) The trailer keel runner brackets were a little bent. I think this is a design issue. There is a gap between the roller and the bracket and it is very easy fro the keel to run in between the two and force that gap wider. When this happens the boat tends to find the gap quite often and get jammed in between the two. I straightened them up again but this may be an ongoing problem.

5) There are a couple of blemishes in the paintwork. Quintrex documentation says this is normal and I understand that these will not be fixed under warranty. Below is the official Telwater Warranty policy which will apply to all Telwater hulls

6) One of the anchor points for the ladder restraint has frayed.

All in all the boat was fine and I am happy with the response I got from the dealer. Although it did take much longer than they said it would and I missed my Friday fishing trip!

The price of the service was a little steep I thought but that will be the subject of another post.

Paint is warranted against defective paint or application, NOT against the normal effect of oxidization and degradation caused by fuel and dissimilar metals.

The normal effect of oxidisation of aluminium has the potential to bubble paint surface finish. Surface contaminates could cause oxidisation if not removed from the vessel.

[chocolate]

Interesting read , People who intend to buy a new boat should take note of topics like this. And if in need of help just ask other members on the site who between all members I think there would be some knowledge there , Which should be taken on board. Good post Fragmeister.

[BWV]

What I find completely astonishing with quintrex (telwater) is they use no primer on their paint systems and then offer no warranty on defects on the paint system when they are using the paint system outside of the specification and guidelines that are recommended by the paint suppliers. There should be no oxidisation on the paint system within the first year on a good paint system!

I don't know of any paint that can be applied to alloy that is primarily used in the saltwater environment with out any primer what so ever, and yet Telwater think is acceptable!

If your considering a Telwater boat and want it painted get someone else to do it. Their paint system is below 3rd world quality and completely unacceptable for the price of there vessels.

Our 475 Hornet was painted in ETec blue by a panel better using primer and it's was in the same condition when it was sold as when it was first painted with no oxidisation what so ever., Maybe 5-7 years later.....

[Fab1]

What I find completely astonishing with quintrex (telwater) is they use no primer on their paint systems and then offer no warranty on defects on the paint system when they are using the paint system outside of the specification and guidelines that are recommended by the paint suppliers. There should be no oxidisation on the paint system within the first year on a good paint system!

I don't know of any paint that can be applied to alloy that is primarily used in the saltwater environment with out any primer what so ever, and yet Telwater think is acceptable!

If your considering a Telwater boat and want it painted get someone else to do it. Their paint system is below 3rd world quality and completely unacceptable for the price of there vessels.

Our 475 Hornet was painted in ETec blue by a panel better using primer and it's was in the same condition when it was sold as when it was first painted with no oxidisation what so ever., Maybe 5-7 years later.....

That's why among other reasons I have a bare aluminium hull, It's inevitable that sooner or later your going to get scratches, flaking, peeling,etc on a painted hull.

Painted does look nice for a while though,and does cut down on the glare.

Sent from my GT-I8730T using Tapatalk

[a boat]

Telwater use primer and you can even buy it in a spray can to do repairs and most paint problems are due to people installing extras with SST screws-we only fit extras with alloy rivets.. The paint process is very good and if you do not think so you should go for a factory tour next time you are up around the Gold Coast. No alloy brand warrants paint.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Huey @ Huett Marine

[Billy2014]

Just on the cracking, thin lower grade pressed panels supported by folded channels and pressed ribs isn't the strongest way to build an aluminium boat. The panels will flex and the supports will move, the issue with the welds is that they are either inadequate or there aren't enough of them, many welds I have seen in mass produced hulls are also defective in terms of there size, locations and appearance. I don't think it's an issue if you don't use the boat every day in rough seas and also take care not to launch of waves. If you are rough with the boat then cracking is always possible. The tack weld could have been cracked all along. Generally, you tack a hull together and then proceed with the final weld out. Tacks sometimes will give way as the panels distort under heat, this is normal and sometimes desirable, just depends on the scenario. Once a hull is fully welded, the tacks serve no purpose. If the tack cracked afterwards while the boat is being used then this would suggest that there could be movement in the structure.

[BWV]

Crap, we just had a paint sample analysed of a quintrex Top Ender that has the paint flaking off if! And guess what? No etch primer! It confirmed what was long suspected. But it's in writing that (simplified version)they don't accept claims for paint problems

I was employed to commission the build of a 125ft alloy vessel at Austal/Oceanfast in WA a few yrs ago and it's paint system have a warranty of 2 years against all defects, we had no problems. So alloy brands do warranty paint systems. Telwater and others just choose to use a system which I and many others think is well below a satisfactory standard and then choose not to standby a part of their product.

I do believe that no alloy boat show be painted as the alloy creates it's own natural barrier against oxidisation by oxidising. Once the first layer of oxidisation is formed no another oxidisation will occur as it blocks any oxygen getting to the alloy and retards the chemical reaction. So don't wipe off that chalky layer on your alloy boat as it's protecting it.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Whaler 255

[a boat]

Hi, I will post a picture if you do not believe me or this owner, or you could supply a serial number for the boat and I can find out more. If they do not use primer it is strange that, as I said for $20, you can buy a can of primer and the matching white to do any paint repairs on a Telwater boat. You are splitting hairs comparing a Quintrex to a 125ft Austal/Oceanfast alloy boat so yes I am wrong and if you want to get pedantic "some" alloy boats warrant paint but my point was no production alloy boat builder,and there are not many left here in Oz, warrant paint. Yes I am sure Telwater and anyone else could warrant paint but the end user would pay for it in a much higher priced boat and it is like me comparing the paint on the $20K and more dearer custom built Extreme boat we stock vs the Stacer boats we choose to stock too-the finish is superior on the Extreme but you pay for that fit and finish. It is pretty much the same in any industry-comparing say a Kia to a Mercedes is not a fair comparison as is your comparison,it is not an apples to apples comparison.

Cheers,

Huey.

[BWV]

My point was that it should be and can be painted correctly.

We pay absolute top dollar for everything in Australia anyway and I think we deserve a product to be on comparison for the price, but we are constantly supplied equipment which in my opinion has had short cuts taken because the market allows it and we have little choice in the maritime sector here in Australia. That's one reason more people are buying boats and supplies from overseas.

I'd rather pay a fraction more, and let's be honest how much extra is it going to be? 1-3% extra? Than have problems with the paint system and presentation of a new boat within the first 12 months.

[a boat]

In my opinion they are painted correctly and I for one do not see alot of issues with paint-if you think differently than that is fine by me. The OP does not go further than just saying "blemishes" so not sure what that means but if it is blistering paint then most of the time it is from scratches or dis-similar metals-only by seeing it could one determine the cause. I only replied to this post because you claimed they do not use primer which is wrong and do you have the serial number of your friend's Q and if you find any alloy boat builder that makes the sort of trailerboats, for the same sort of money a Quintrex is, that warrants paint for the affects of being used in salt water then I would like to know that brand-because I sure have not come across one.

Yes importing is popular because some brands do things better than us here, more so on the glass side, but not sure if you have seen many of the US brands of alloy boats, in my opinion they are not as good as what the big companies do here and I bet if you bought one of the US alloy boats, that are made for pretty much their freshwater lakes and you had paint problems I doubt they would warrant them either in our environment-could be wrong but the times I have been over there and been in their alloy boats some leave alot to be desired and if the dollar drops, I think the importation of boats would dry up because the cost of getting the boats here.If the dollar was say around 70 to even 80 cents to the US dollar I doubt many companies or individuals would still do it. As with anything there are very good brands in the US too (I went for a run in a couple Kingfisher alloy boats last month at the G2 launch) and they were very impressive boats in not only ride, but construction and finish/build quality but the price reflected that too-alot more than 1-3% than what even the top shelf brands like Extreme cost here.

I think best to agree to disagree, you do not think the paint is upto scratch but I do and you look around the country, the big, long term dealers tend to stock and sell one of three 3 brands of alloy boats that this company makes whereas the lesser dealers, for a better word, will sell and most likely not carrying much stock of another manufacturer's boats. According to your logic, all of these very experienced (some like us with over 50 years stocking and servicing all brands of boats)boat dealers must not know what they are doing then if they choose to stock a brand of boat from Telwater because they are so bad in their painting process.

I wish your friend luck with his Q.

PS-here is a photo of a Telwater built boat that is etch primed in a climate controlled, then inspected and painted whatever colour the dealer or customer ordered-being white or even two tone. I doubt many other brands have the funds to have climate controlled booths to do their painting.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Huey @ Huett Marine

[oz_brett]

Ive always liked Quintrex boats but never owned one.

At the moment I own a Stessco within the first 12 months the paint was starting to flake off on the checker plate on the back, It was repaired under warranty with no hesitations - if the little companies can do it why cant the big brands that charge more for there boats?

Lets be honest its there reputation that people are paying for do they really want to damage that reputation!

[a boat]

Hi, yes I have had Stacer boats where Telwater has warranted paint if it is an application problem which flakes on checkerplate tend to be-blistering paint is another subject all together and trust me EVERY manufacturer looks at each case on its merit and there are two sides to every story-but we have a very good working relationship with them. If a dealer goes into bat and has a long history with any company you would be surprised what some companies do. The simple facts are Telwater would not be where they are today if they made bad products and their reputation is good and as why I said they are the manufacturer of choice for dealers that have been doing this and know a thing or two about boats. A person who decided to start a boatshop here in Sydney could not just ring up Telwater and start selling S or Q, but they could ring up pretty much any other brand and start selling them if they wanted to-simple facts of the marine industry.

Cheers,

Huey.

[BWV]

Ok let say they are painted correctly, can or should it be done better? Yes with out a doubt!

To have such a common occurrence with defective paint systems on their vessels screams out to me that something is missing! I find it astonishing that in 2014 that paint systems are failing within 12 months even 2 years on alloy boats. It all points to short cuts in my eyes. Yet other brands aren't failing you mentioned Extreme, I am not familiar with them but I doubt you see the amount of problems with paint systems on those vessels to the previous mentioned vessels?

Yes we can agree to disagree

Now we could of all over looked the cause of the problems and we just are reacting to the symptoms... How do they earth their electronics? Straight to the alloy hull? Food for thought......

[fragmeister]

Telwater use primer and you can even buy it in a spray can to do repairs and most paint problems are due to people installing extras with SST screws-we only fit extras with alloy rivets.. The paint process is very good and if you do not think so you should go for a factory tour next time you are up around the Gold Coast. No alloy brand warrants paint.

So, given that paint blistering can be a feature of alloy boats, dissimilar metals etc where would you expect to see the paint blistering? At the point where the stainless screw is attached or some random place on the boat? I have a couple of spots of paint blistering one is next to a alloy riveted original fixture the other is on a flat surface on the transom door cut out.

[a boat]

Blistering paint happens when a hole is drilled and raw alloy is then uncovered. Duralac and alloy rivets will be the best way to help prevent it but any alloy boat used in salt water is subject to this.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Huey @ Huett Marine

[a boat]

Ok let say they are painted correctly, can or should it be done better? Yes with out a doubt!

To have such a common occurrence with defective paint systems on their vessels screams out to me that something is missing! I find it astonishing that in 2014 that paint systems are failing within 12 months even 2 years on alloy boats. It all points to short cuts in my eyes. Yet other brands aren't failing you mentioned Extreme, I am not familiar with them but I doubt you see the amount of problems with paint systems on those vessels to the previous mentioned vessels?

Yes we can agree to disagree

Now we could of all over looked the cause of the problems and we just are reacting to the symptoms... How do they earth their electronics? Straight to the alloy hull? Food for thought......

Hi, as I said, the only reason I posted is because you said they do not prime, which they do. ALL alloy brands have paint problems and Telwater produce the most boats by a fair margin so one would expect they would have the most problems-simple numbers game. Now for this other assumption, the electronics are not earthed to the boat-they have a dedicated return to the battery and again what you posted is wrong. If you are willing to learn I will post what they do.

Not sure why you made a face but you think one way I think and see daily the other way.

Cheers,

Huey.

SERVICE BULLETIN 2014.04.10 Wiring and grounding 2.pdf

This is how we do it and have the engines +ve and -ve going to the battery with the wiring as shown- wonder if the OP has his boat wired this way?

Edited July 15, 2014 by Huey @ Huett Marine

[Juggs]

i guess what does the best paint prep mean when telwater themselves supplies boats with fittings like that battery swicth just screwed to the hull

ive had a 385 explorer a 435 hornet and another hornet with things like

glove boxes with screws straight into the hull

rod holders just screwed into the hull

drill shavings left in the bottom of the floor

basically all fittings just screwed in with no effort at seperation of differing metals

telwater are the premium mass produced boat builder so not singling them out only as none of the mass produced guys make a effort in this area

the old quinnies lasted because they were made from good quality australian aluminium with differing properties then what is in use today.

[a boat]

Hi, the battery switch is on a bracket-it is not screwed to the hull and the screws have duralac on them. Are you sure these extras were factory fitted, not dealer fitted because as i said they have used alloy rivets for a long time in fitting rod holders. I wonder if the drill shavings were from the holes drilled after the factory for the outboard. Do not get me wrong (and I think i will bow out of this now because you guys obviously see more boats than I do),Telwater boats, as with anything made by human hands can always be improved and they will have problems from time to time. Everyone will have an opinion from their own experiences-some people just have more experience then others.

Cheers,

Huey.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Huey @ Huett Marine

[fragmeister]

Thanks for the comments guys.

I am going to post a few pics because if I get this right the areas where dissimilar metals are introduced are the problem.

I have a couple of small spots where there is some blistering and one of them is nowhere near any fittings.

Your continued input would be appreciated (including yours Heuy so don't bow out yet!).

If paint blistering is a characteristic of alloys boats in this price range or it is reflective of today's quality or it is sign or my poor practices I want to know as much

as possible but if ends up being a quality issue in the boat build I will certainly be knocking on Telwater's door either directly of through a dealer to get something done about it.

Cheers

Jim

Edited July 15, 2014 by fragmeister

[fragmeister]

Hi Raiders,

Ok, here are the photos of the offending areas.

They are hi-res so click on them for better detail.

This stainless fitting is original.

Bubbling is also obvious on the transome next to the transom door... no dissimilar metals here.

What are your view boys?

Edited July 15, 2014 by fragmeister

[Sydneyfisher12]

i have a quintrex 480 coast runner and love it it has the two tone hull and to sell it i would have to have a very good replacement

i have no problems with the paint all the rod holders were factory fitted using the alloy rivets huey was talking about also for all the fitting my dad used alloy screws and replaced all the old screws somebody else fitted because he didn't want the paint to become bubbly

i love quintrex there a great boat and me and my dad have had two now and they were both great boats

cheers sydneyfisher12

[Fab1]

Hi Raiders,

Ok, here are the photos of the offending areas.

They are hi-res so click on them for better detail.

This stainless fitting is original.

IMG_5228.JPG

Bubbling is also obvious on the transome next to the transom door... no dissimilar metals here.

IMG_5229.JPG

What are your view boys?

That's Corrosion, pitting of the aluminium underneath the paint in both photo, s AKA (Aluminium cancer).

First photo-If you pry off that dress plate exposing the mounting plate and both fasteners, you'll find that corrosion has started from the lower fasteners hole spreading like cancer outwards.

My guess, you have bare alloy exposed around the fasteners hole, with no barrier between the fitting and paint letting saltwater accumulate under the fitting and you end up with what you have.

Photo 2-Pull that rubber of the lip and have a look at the lip for chips, missing paint.

Some rubbers have a steel insert that corrode from exposure to air/salt which doesn't take long in a marine evironment.

The rust will burst through the rubber as it expands which will then rest on the painted lip.

It will eat through the paint to the bare alloy allowing moisture (saltwater) to get in causing the corrosion you have.

My unpainted quintrex is 3.5 years old now and all fittings either are welded or riveted from factory and is still like brand new with no corrosion.

My rod holders have sealant and rivets from factory.My welds are like this.

Cheers.

Sent from my GT-I8730T using Tapatalk

[Billy2014]

Gday boys,

It's a case of god being in the details......the stainless fitting could be touching the bare metal edge of the hole in the boat and the metal edges where the rubbing strips are most likely aren't protected, water got under the rubber strip causing the aluminium to oxidise, lifting the paint. One thing common is that the bubbling of paint is in an area where water can get in but can't evaporate in time. Tinnies used in salt water are best left unpainted unless you can guarantee that all surfaces, edges holes etc are primed and painted watertight and all drilling is done prior to primer and paint. I doubt any boat manufacturer could achieve this satisfactorily. Just another point, aluminium rivets are only good for light weight fixings, you still need stainless fittings sometimes so that's were duralac comes in, its ugly, its yellow but it works. Even with duralac, i would still suggest removing all stainless fittings every couple of years, cleaning them re applying duralac. Anyhow, that elephant in the room is still here......can anyone else see it or is it just me?

Cheers,

Bill.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Billy2014

[BWV]

Hi guys,

Everything I have said in this thread I standby, I have seen it with my own eyes. In saying that we were very happy with our Hornet. There are other things which could be improved with the boats as well but it will take the thread in another direction and away from the original substance of the post.

Huey don't bow out your opinion is highly valued in these threads and welcomed by all. We may have difference of opinions which all makes for a healthy and informative thread.

On the subject of the rubber in the pictures, most rubber contains carbon and the carbon in the rubber will eat though alloy and stainless steal in a pretty quick time frame, I don't know what type of rubber is used on your boats in the photos but it also a question that should be asked. There are very few rubber products that don't contain carbon and they are the only ones which should be used in the marine environment.

I agree with the Durlac statement as well, it works very well. Although we aren't using that much anymore as I believe there was some OHS issues with it. We have started using and requesting Tefgel product and are seeing excellent results. Our many concern is making sure no dissimilar metals contacted each other.

There are plenty of steal hulled boats with aluminium super structures which are bolted together with no problems. They just ensure that there is no dissimilar metals contacting each other.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Whaler 255

[fragmeister]

Thank guys,

So, the oxidising under the stainless fitting is due to disimilar metals in contact with each other without the protection of duralac

and the oxidisation around the transom rubber may be due to poor painting preparation in the first place.

I have to say here that there are lots of other fittings on the boat whch I susepect would be more likely to be exposed to salt water but they have remained unblemished.

I noticed these issues months ago and they have not gotten any worse.

I always wash and dry the boat thorougly after use.

All boat brand selection and loyalties aside my objectives here are;

1) to establish whether any of this can be put back on to Telwater

2) to understand what causes the corrosion.

3) to fix it using the best practices possible.

I would have no hesitation in removing every fitting in the boat and either aunimium rivetting it back on or using duralac as protection.

To that end you guys are being very helpful so keep it coming.

Cheers

Jim