replacement motor size options. help

[Busy-livin]

hello all ,

im chasing some opinions and hopefully some info on motors raiders have experience with.

currently my rig is a seafarer viking 17 foot rated to 150 hp but has a 95' 135 mercury black max on the back and she cracks! quick in my opinion for a fishing boat . although the motor is fine i'm currently in a position to upgrade and wish to before the old girl starts to hit the wallet hard.

in my boat i go offshore and and going further and further each trip and i also water ski and wake boat behind her down the coast so the motor would need to be suitable for both worlds

motor options

at this point in time i'm really leaning toward the suzuki 140 four stroke as i've read some positive reports on economy and power, weight and i like the look of them.

question being is a 140 hp too much or could i get away with a 115.

i guess more power could help but i'm chasing your opinions

also the evinrude etec 130 ho

great looking motor and same reports as above. i do need to reaserch these a bit more but a sexy looking motor!! .

would this motor serve my boat well?

all advice would be great help!!

thanks in advace all

[Welster]

Hi Stanton,

The age old debate... Just the fact you mention water sports leans me towards the etec two stroke. With waterskiing in particular hole shot is more important than speed and I think this is where two strokes have an edge. If you were just fishing I'd think you'd be happy either way. Is the Suzuki heavier?

I have a new Etec 150HO and am very impressed so far. Speak with Huey to make sure you are set up tight.

Btw I'd be thinking the 150 you don't have to use it all but it's there.

[B Smithy]

I have a 17ft sea devil with the merc 150 four stroke, this engine is very powerful and has 2 stroke like hole shot and acceleration, if the boat will take the weight would be perfect, if weight is an issue I would take a long hard look at the 115hp merc with the gearbox option - can't remember what it's called, strong motor also. Both of these are whisper quiet as well also no oil bottles to contend with.

[reese]

im an ETEC fan, and wth the water sports I Would lean to the etech for the hole shot, plus still nice economy, i also like the mercury, lighter then most four strokes and bigger block which means better torque, unsure how they will go with down low with water skiiing ect , just my opinion from the recent research i did.

[Juggs]

some things to consider

merc 150

suzuki 180 kilos

merc

2000cc v6

suzuki

2044cc inline 4

i doubt the 140 suzuki will give you the perforamnce of the 135 black max
you will use less fuel oil and experience less fumes and noise

from my experience you need to go 20-30% larger in hp to get the same result

but then the game of weight v what block is being used for a group of engines and capcity comes into play

[Croydon]

Hi Stanton,

Six months ago I went through the same questions when I re-powered my bar crusher. I looked at all the brands, e-tec, suzuki, honda, yamaha and mercury in the 115hp to 150hp bracket. The cheapest deal I could come up with was an e-tec from Huey. But as I live in Batemans Bay it was a long way to take the boat for fit up and no real local options for servicing. I ended up going with a 150hp merc 4 stroke from my local mechanic/dealer. The merc is the lightest 4 stroke on the market in the 140/150hp range. I've done over 140 hours and it's been fantastic. But these days all the brands are good with their positives and negatives. I would go with whatever brand you like, that you can get at a good price, with good back up service and a dealer you trust.

For me, I spend a lot of time fishing and trolling so the 4 stroke was the go. But if I was doing a lot of water sports, I would probably go with the e-tec in the largest horse power you can legally and safely fit to the boat. Good luck with the search and I hope you find the motor of your dreams. Good luck...........

Dave

Edited February 25, 2015 by Croydon

[Zacnoel]

Hi Stanton 44

I've just had to do the same thing to my boat. I have a 6.2 Trailcraft and I was running a 99 model 135 Mercury Optimax. I swore that I would replace it with a four stroke but I have replaced it with the Evinrude 135 HO .

When in play mode the hole shot is very much superior to the Mercury. Also the noise output is substantially less. At idle I need to check that it is actually running. On the run the Mercury was deafening, something to do with mercurys inability to quieten down the air pump I believe.

The Mercury did have the edge in terms of top end speed but that could have been a matter of prop selection.

At this point I can't really comment on the fuel economy of the etec as I am still in the run in stage. But it's looking good. I fished jervis bat the other day and used 12.5 liters. I didn't check distance travelled but we were out for 5hours

Another advantage of the etec over the opti is that there is nothing hanging off the motor to go wrong i.e. No separate alternator, no air pumps and as such no drive belts to fail.this may be true of other motors as well

In all a very tidy package, and yes a sexy looking beast.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Zacnoel

[Juggs]

thought etecs didnt have a run in stage ?

and all those moving parts on the four strokes have been proven to run for 3000 plus hours, going off commercial use

the etec has its own complexities and you just decide which poison you want to play with.

dont service or maintain and all can play up

Edited February 25, 2015 by Juggs

[Zacnoel]

They technically don't , but for the first 5 hours that the engine runs at 3000 rpm or over the engine management system double doses the the oil mix. And I would think any brand new motor will loosen up a little with use. Both of these issues can effect the overall fuel consumption to some degree. Also the 135 opti is a two stroke

As for the moving parts, on an engine that was serviced annually I had the alternator bolt fatigue and snap. This was a $1500 dollar repair on two occasions. I also had the bolts that hold the high pressure pump fail causing damage to the rear engine cover and the block. Potential repair bill 4-5k. Less moving parts has to be better

In saying all of this I am not plugging execs, just just observing the outcomes of my experiences with two different motors

Edited February 25, 2015 by Zacnoel

[a boat]

An E-TEC has no more complexities than a 4-Stroke, they all have computers, injectors and sensors but one does not have valves, camshaft(s), timing belts/chains and more. As mentioned all the 150HP are good engines but the only one that is going to offer simialr performance to what you are used to with that V6 is the V6 E-TEC, all the while using half the fuel, the best emissions in the industry, the best warranty and lowest ownership costs. When comparing engines make sure you go in with your eyes open and compare apples to apples and add SST props to brands that do not come STD with these, add the cool digital gauges some brands offer and factor in the 3 month and yearly service costs. We have E-TEC with over those hours and only one technology (2-Stroke) has proven to last 30 plus years in salt water due to no sumps etc. I always wonder IF 4-Stroke outboards are so good why did none of the big manufacturers make these engine before the EPA forced them too.

To the OP, get it in writing that the 140HP Suzuki will offer good performance on that Viking, because trust me I have sold and serviced that engine and nothing wrong with it, but performance IS NOT it's strong point. I would fit the 150HP E-TEC if my boat, the 130HP HO is only a V4 and again on a Viking it would be needing to work hard whereas the V6 is looping along and will use less fuel than anything else in its class. The price difference between the 135HP and 150HP is not enough to buy the 135HP and as a L/S the 135HP runs the L2 gearbox which is great on light weight fast boats, but your Viking is not in that class.

[a boat]

They technically don't , but for the first 5 hours that the engine runs at 3000 rpm or over the engine management system double doses the the oil mix. And I would think any brand new motor will loosen up a little with use. Both of these issues can effect the overall fuel consumption to some degree

It is the first 5 hours over 2K and yes I have seen improvements in performance and fuel burn after a few hours. I like to see around 5600RPM with that V6 for best all round everything.

[Zacnoel]

It is the first 5 hours over 2K and yes I have seen improvements in performance and fuel burn after a few hours. I like to see around 5600RPM with that V6 for best all round everything.

I stand corrected Huey, it is 2000 rpm, another consideration is that the 135HO is built on the same platform as the 150 and 200 hp V6, or so I'm told by my dealer, this surely should lead to a longer life considering that you are running the block capacity to the lower end and not working to its max output.

[Zacnoel]

Huey,

Does the 135HO have the bigger gear box ?

[a boat]

Hi, yes buying the little brother of a family of engines (like the 135HO) means that is always understressed doing its rated HP and when they want to that same block as yours can pump out 200HP, so she is as strong torque wise as a 135HP/140HP will get.

Depending on the shaft length, the L/S run, as I said the L2 box and great on the right hull with its nose cone and gear ratio for top speed. The X/L engine uses the M2 gearbox that is the same gearbox as a 300HP so again understressed with only 135HP running thru it. Compare that M2 box to other brands in this class and it is ALOT beefier.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Busy-livin]

G'day all!

Worked all day so I couldn't read up earlier but amazed with the feedback, thank you to all!!!

I must say I haven't looked into the mercury brand with much detail but I will be from now.

The etec v6 150 sounds amazing. What would the oil usage and cost be with that rig. Ball park that is on a weekly day trip basis?

[a boat]

What you are going to spend on XD-100 is less than what you will spend on oil changes with other brands/technologies. For the average user the oil bill after 12 months will be around $150. 150HP's sell for around $18K depending on shaft length.

[Juggs]

the brother in law has a etec 200ho on a 6m haines and uses 300-400mm of xd100 per 100l of fuel

he only bottom drops so its 20-25knot cruise everywhere with next to no trolling unless conditions are too rough
the peak 12 mile browns or the shelf further south
as he fishes minimum once a week his oil and fuel bill are considerable higher then a boat used 10 times a year like many

in this situation is neither here nor there in comparing the cost of xd100 to a filter and sump oil.

[a boat]

Your brother in laws engine is totally different proposition to a 150HP in terms of performance and fuel economy and therefore oil usage. Also pushing a deep vee heavy boat like a HH is harder than a light weight hull. As you point it he uses his boat ALOT more than the average guy-trust me we see it all the time with all brands of outboards here for service. The average user is less than 50 hours per year so your brother in law will be spending more on XD-100 than the next guy and yes totally agree with your last statement, the oil cost for a person like your brother in law would be similar. What I find with the 3.3L is they like to see around 5800RPM at WOT so if overpropped fuel usage and as a result oil usage goes up and even how you open the throttle can affect it-if he is always "gunning" it he will more fuel/oil than the next guy.

[bessell1955]

Truly I do not know a single thing about engine and boat sizes, but I do know that if I have a tooth ache I go to a Dentist, if I have a fever I go to a Doctor, if my pet is ill I go to a Veterinarian, if my child is having a learning difficulty I go to a Teacher. Which leads me to say, if I am having a motor size issue I go to a professional dealer. This is what Huey is a professional marine engineer who is offer his professional advice to all of us for free. I would suggest we all place a lot of weight upon his recommendations.

[Busy-livin]

Very true Bessell1955' I will be doing a trip to his shop for a chat with inthe next few weeks. Thank you all for the input !!

[Bruce the Postie]

I have the same hull in the half cab mate , it is powered by a new gen 2 stroke 115 and it flies , plenty of holeshot and personally I think plenty of power for the old seafarer hull . My motor weighs in at 173 kg and I think that is about as heavy as you want to go before it sits too low In the arse to comfortably fish outside .

Just my 2 bobs worth .

[Viking17]

I've just been through the same decision process repowering the same hull - 1989 viking 17 - hope this helps. My hull has been restored, including a new transom built to 25" Max hp is 150 and weight 225kg following recent hull survey. You will find earlier Vikings were rated to 175hp - when the National standard was adopted later hulls were rated to 140hp - mine is the 140hp rated version.

Lucky for me, before I started looking for a new motor I didn't have any real brand preference. From my experience you can't compare simply based on labelled HP. For repower my preference was to go up to manufacturers max horsepower (140) for best cruise economy, grunt and to tow a skier.

I was quite attracted to the suzuki 140 - lots of good reports on economy and reliability - wasn't convinced on the torque aspect. Etec - attractive option but from my perspective not so good if ever considering resale (my opinion only!), I had the same view of the Merc 2 strokes. Honda - too heavy and restricted service options locally. Yamaha 115 - reliable I'm sure but the comparative displacement of the engine and overall cost didnt work for me either. Should also mention the Yamaha 130 - came on the market late in the piece - pricing wasn't clear (apart from expensive) and the displacement was too small for my liking.

So I was left with Mercuryin the mix with their new 115 CT fourstroke - looked good for weight and displacement. All the reports looked good too but I still couldn't split it from the Suzuki 140. About the same time I was about to flip a coin between the Merc 115 CT and Suzuki 140 along came the Merc 135 four stroke.........that complicated things more. Merc 135 is a derated 150 - 3 litre displacement but on the upper end of the transom weight (212kg). Back to the calculations - My old V4 140 hp looper was about 170 kg plus the oil tank at 7 kg full, plus 60 litres of fuel under the motor well. With my fuel tank now foward and underfloor I figured the balance of the boat would be the same as before or maybe a bit better.

Decision time - Merc 135 four stroke with 18p Inertia prop. Fitted by Brisbane Marine and I am impressed by their service. The 115 CT was my next pick. This motor would have been adequate for most situations - may have been a bit under powered for skiing.

Balance - boats sits on water same as before - rides at waterline on transom. Motor does look big on the boat but most four strokes do compared to the old flatter yet fatter V4s. Performance - I am converted to the saying there is no replacement for displacement. I have 10 hours on the Mercury and can only say "hang on" because it is a beast and it thumps. It has buckets and buckets of torque and I am so far thoroughly impressed. Hole-shot is awesome with time onto plane less than 2 seconds with 3 adults on board - better than the old motor. Mid and top range acceleration are impressive - 'hang on". No on and off the throttle in chop - the torque of the motor just keeps pushing the boat along.

More importantly..........Comfortable cruise speed can range between 21 and 28 knots = 2.4 to 2.6 km/litre (15 - 17 Lph). If I run at 30 knots (yesterday on Moreton Bay) I was returning 2.1 km/litre. WIth 120 litres of fuel on board I now have the range I need. Top speed - 44 knots (so far and there is a bit more to go) - I haven't had the conditions to stretch right out.

Other comments I have are that the more traditional looking smart craft gauges work well and fitted nicely into the boat. I added a trim gauge - only because I like original and there was a hole in the dash to fill. Trim can still be presented on the smart craft gauge.

Now for some fishing and skiing.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Viking17

[locodave]

Good post mate, was a good read. Hope they roll out the other sizes as it currently stops at 150Hp atm in terms of the standard 4stroke.