Technique: pump and wind or reel reel reel?

[Mike89]

Hi guys - I was hoping to get some advice on my reeling technique.

I've been told of the pump and wind technique - pulling the fish in with your rod rather than your line by lifting the rod and reeling in the slack repeatedly. As I've heard, this is the correct way to bring in a fish. On something big such as a shark or big flathead I will use this method, but I'm wondering if and when this is the best way to pull in a smaller, faster and stronger fish such as a big trevally or salmon.

This morning I was out at the wharf and hooked on to what I'm pretty sure was a salmon. For some reason I didn't think about what I was doing too much and I just started to reel without loosening the drag (I'm sure this would have saved my fish). Eventually the hook popped out and he got away.

A mate dropped by before heading off to work and I told him what happened. He told me to pump and wind to minimise the direct contact between the reel, line and hook. I'm sure this would have helped and might have also saved my fish.

An hour later I hooked up with a nice trevally and what he had said kicked right in - I started to pull the fish in using the pump and wind technique. When he was close though, I couldn't control him as well but continued to try and pull him in with my rod. The cheeky fish pulled over to a pylon and broke me off. Normally when landing a trevally I'll reel as fast as I can in those final moments when the fish is fighting and pulling out line to steer it away from the wharf pylons, but it was much harder to control the fish in close using the pump and wind.

I did go home with two nice trevally, so not a bad morning's fish at all although I was pretty frustrated losing this last one.

So: is the pump and wind always the best method, or is it really only for bringing the fish up and close to you? Should I be reeling as fast as possible when I have brought in the fish just to steer him away from snags?

I'd like to know what the more experienced raiders here have to say.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Mike89

[pjbink]

Pumping and winding is the most efficient way to gain line when it is under heavy tension. It also protects your reel by preventing stretched mono being would onto to the spool (the pressure it exerts can collapse the spool).

However when bottom bashing with braided line I tend to just use the reel as a winch. With the zero stretch of braid and the boat going up and down on swells pumping and winding can lead to a lot of pulled hooks/ dropped fish.

[Scratchie]

Mike, I think different methods apply to different fish. From a boat, the pump and wind technique works well as the fish is generally below the boat and you need to lift the fish through the water column. Land based IMO, is more about keeping the pressure on the fish and steering it with the rod. Sometimes I'll pump and wind and other times, I'll just keep winding in the slack but always trying to maintain pressure. I think sometimes, we panic when the fish makes a run and we try to wind or apply to much pressure hence pulling the hook. The answer, each fish is different but there's more chance of landing a fish by maintaining the correct pressure!

Cheers scratchie!!!

[Mike89]

Mike, I think different methods apply to different fish. From a boat, the pump and wind technique works well as the fish is generally below the boat and you need to lift the fish through the water column. Land based IMO, is more about keeping the pressure on the fish and steering it with the rod. Sometimes I'll pump and wind and other times, I'll just keep winding in the slack but always trying to maintain pressure. I think sometimes, we panic when the fish makes a run and we try to wind or apply to much pressure hence pulling the hook. The answer, each fish is different but there's more chance of landing a fish by maintaining the correct pressure!

Cheers scratchie!!!

Thanks scratchie, I guess also with a boat there is no possibility of losing a fish to snags in close too, right?

Sometimes people are pretty rigid about what is the right thing to do, I guess there are no hard and fast rules then? I think next time on the trevally I'll just keep doing what I've been doing, reeling hard and putting a lot of pressure on towards the end.

Thanks guys.

[Scratchie]

Thanks scratchie, I guess also with a boat there is no possibility of losing a fish to snags in close too, right?

Sometimes people are pretty rigid about what is the right thing to do, I guess there are no hard and fast rules then? I think next time on the trevally I'll just keep doing what I've been doing, reeling hard and putting a lot of pressure on towards the end.

Thanks guys.

No rules mate. All about personal experience. With snapper and kings I'll pump and wind but with flatties or bass I'll maintain pressure and reel. Always trying to feel for the fish. That's what has been successful for me! You'll work it out!

Cheers scratchie!!!

P.s trevally have very soft lips so pumping and winding will increase the chances of you pulling hooks!

[rockfisherman]

It's all relevant to the gear ratio of the reel. Pumping and winding is the way to go for reels with higher gear ratios, spin reels, baitcasters and some over heads...

...Big game reels and alveys have low gear ratios, no pumping required, just wind.

Harry

[stevefish]

Some good points above,

Keep your rod bent during the fight, you will have opportunities to reel quickly and times when you are losing the battle, especially with fish (well) heavier than the line you are using

[Crossfire63]

It's all relevant to the gear ratio of the reel. Pumping and winding is the way to go for reels with higher gear ratios, spin reels, baitcasters and some over heads...

...Big game reels and alveys have low gear ratios, no pumping required, just wind.

Harry

After two years working as a deckie on game boats out of Cairns and Port Douglas that's a new one on me.

Go's to show you learn something new every day

[rockfisherman]

After two years working as a deckie on game boats out of Cairns and Port Douglas that's a new one on me.

Go's to show you learn something new every day

Saying big game reels was fairly general,and not to say you can't pump and wind, but bigger big game reels like the tiara 80 switches between a ratio of 2.5:1 and 1.3:1 for winching power. Alvey reels are 1:1

Harry

[Crossfire63]

Saying big game reels was fairly general,and not to say you can't pump and wind, but bigger big game reels like the tiara 80 switches between a ratio of 2.5:1 and 1.3:1 for winching power. Alvey reels are 1:1

Harry

And I would respectfully suggest that if you wish to use the reel as winch instead of what it is designed for you'll end up with very sore arms and back long before you get the fish anywhere near the boat.

We always taught people to lift the fish with the large muscle of the body rather than just trying to use brute strength and using a reel as a winch.

If you want to use a reel as a winch get an electric reel and take all the hard work out of it

[rockfisherman]

And I would respectfully suggest that if you wish to use the reel as winch instead of what it is designed for you'll end up with very sore arms and back long before you get the fish anywhere near the boat.

We always taught people to lift the fish with the large muscle of the body rather than just trying to use brute strength and using a reel as a winch.

If you want to use a reel as a winch get an electric reel and take all the hard work out of it

Well your personal experience differs to mine.

When using a big game reel with a low gear ratio (1.3:1) or an alvey (1:1) winching is not a problem for me, in fact I belive that's what it's there for! As for alveys (1:1) which is all I pretty much use these days unless I'm jigging or using plastics, all I do is winch, fish or no fish.

Cheers and have a great day.

[Mr Squidy]

Yeah, a lot of un-clear information out there in the advice around this. At the end of the day the correct technique should achieve two things; 1 don't allow any slack line as this is when a fish is most likely to throw the hook and, 2 don't wind the reel against high tension as this can bugger the gears in the reel. Achieving these two things will see slightly different styles of using your gear for different fish.

For example, with small pelagic's like tailor often you'll just hold the rod steady against their runs then wind quickly to keep tension when you have turned their head as they will swim towards you. Almost no "pump" involved but still correct in achieving the two key points. Go to the other extreme of bringing up a big ray off the bottom and you must pump and wind as the load on the reel otherwise will be ridiculous. Everything in between is a balancing act that just becomes instinctive once you get the feel for it.

I've more than a few times seen people telling beginners to "pump and wind" against tiny fish which hardly put any bend in the rod which is ridiculous as you just create slack line which looses fish and also feels wrong often meaning its counter productive to developing a correct technique.

Should also add that when snags come into play "perfect technique" goes out the window a little, still best to use the rod to haul them out whilst holding the spool to stop you loosing drag though rather than winding against full load but depending on the situation this isn't always possible. Bream over oyster leases for example you really just want to pull them out of there by whatever means you have.

Cheers,

Rich

Edited September 22, 2015 by Mr Squidy

[Mike89]

Yeah, a lot of un-clear information out there in the advice around this. At the end of the day the correct technique should achieve two things; 1 don't allow any slack line as this is when a fish is most likely to throw the hook and, 2 don't wind the reel against high tension as this can bugger the gears in the reel. Achieving these two things will see slightly different styles of using your gear for different fish.

For example, with small pelagic's like tailor often you'll just hold the rod steady against their runs then wind quickly to keep tension when you have turned their head as they will swim towards you. Almost no "pump" involved but still correct in achieving the two key points. Go to the other extreme of bringing up a big ray off the bottom and you must pump and wind as the load on the reel otherwise will be ridiculous. Everything in between is a balancing act that just becomes instinctive once you get the feel for it.

Thanks for clarifying what the correct technique should be doing. Perhaps we could add a third point, that is - it's also supposed to land your fish!

So: keep the rod bent, maintain tension so as to not allow any slack line, and don't wind against high tension for the sake of the reel. Pump and wind when there is a heavy weight to be lifted. And, land the fish.

Pump and wind would work best pulling in a big jew that's spent itself? How about a kingfish?

I've caught neither a jewfish or a king but I've seen some pretty wild videos.

Thanks everyone.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Mike89

[brad_tate]

Great advice from everyone, makes interesting reading.

I would also add that when you are fishing out the back of a boat, or not too far away if from a pier, that you need to be able to feel what the fish's head is doing. When it's heading down or away from you, you want a decent angle in the rod so you can control it's path as best you can - 30 degrees or so is good. Whilst line is being taken you are typically not winding, but waiting for a pause so you can turn it's head around and start bringing it in again, initially using the rod and as pressure drops, using the reel. Pump and wind if needed, depends on fish size.

If using a graphite rod with a decent fish be careful not to 'high stick' the rod when you do this (i.e. avoid lifting the rod to 90 degrees), or you may break the rod. With glass rods it's much less of an issue.

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[NaClH2OK9]

Soo many people and so much advice.

Personaly I think your over thinking the whole thing mike89.

Know you have your drag set correctly and keep pressure on the fish at all times.

After that it's a matter of feel in my opinion and different conditions require different approaches. But .

If the fish is pulling hard use the rod to bring it in its a brilliant shock absorber and the reel isn't. . If you are not putting any hurt on just wind It in.

A bit simplified but practice makes perfect.

There ya go another opinion

[quochuy]

I personally don't use the reel to pull the fish in. For me the reel is not made for that it is just holding the line and allow you to retrieve it not pulling the fish (even if strong ones can). I use the rod flex to keep pressure and pull the fish when it is weak or stop running. The rod acts as a shock absorber when held in the correct angle. Also keep in mind the fish is pulling, the rod when bent is also pulling in opposite direction, if you start winding at the same time all you do is add more tension and risk breaking the line. I also always have a loosed drag and only tighten it when needed, it is safer than putting too much drag and trying to loosen it during the fight.

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[Mike89]

What is the correct angle to be holding the rod when fighting a fish? 30 degrees or 45?

I didn't think about the rod pulling in the opposite direction when the fish is pulling, that's a fair point!

What about when the fish is making a strong run under snags? This is when I'm most likely to just reel it in. If the drag is too loose doesn't this just let the fish go too far, leaving slack line and then leaving it able to shake this hook? Maybe I really need to start making a habit of the pump and wind so it can be more natural in those tight situations.

Lost two trevally this morning, went home with nothing . The first I felt my drag setting was too loose, which led to the above situation (I think). The second was a monster, could have been a PB I think although the water does always make them look bigger. When he was in close I was reeling on the bent rod with a tighter drag and the hook popped. I think what happened there is exactly how you have described.

Thanks for the advice quochuy, definitely some food for thought.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Mike89

[bluefin]

Change to black magic kl circle hooks 1/0 When they take the bait don't strike. Just lift the rod then reel or pump them in. If they start taking line , stop until they finish. Don't over complicate things. Try and steer then away from structure. Set your drag before you start try at about half your line class to start with. More if your game and have good gear. The reel is for casting and retrieving line. It is not a winch. Pump if the fish is heavy or pulling hard. Reel if it swims toward you so not to loose the bend in your rod. Keep a bend in your rod at all times so as to keep tension on the fish. Slow down. Enjoy the fight.

Edited September 24, 2015 by bluefin

[pjbink]

A third of the breaking strain through a loaded up rod is the normal drag setting, or a quarter straight off the reel. Under most circumstances you won't need to touch the drag during a fight (this is probably best avoided)

[bluefin]

I for many years when spinning off the rocks and out of a boat for pelagics used the 1/3 rule. But now I tent to use more with fish that are only likely to take a few yards. Especially with braid. Knot strength is the key in these circumstances. With a lot of lie out out bow in the line increases drad and strain on the knot

[Mike89]

A third of the breaking strain through a loaded up rod is the normal drag setting, or a quarter straight off the reel. Under most circumstances you won't need to touch the drag during a fight (this is probably best avoided)

Sorry for a newbie question, but I can't really understand what you mean here - how does this translate to using a reel with max drag capacity of 5kg and a 6kg line?

Does this mean use around 2kg of drag?

Thanks in advance.

[fragmeister]

Correct.

Set drag at 2k for 6k line.

To do this accurately you need an in line scale and for this method you pull in a straight line... no bend in the rod.

You will be surprise how much this actually is when the rod is in action. Remember that the average 6 foot rod has about 3:1 Leveraage

on the fish's side based on your hand on the top grip.

Edited September 24, 2015 by fragmeister

[Mike89]

So 2kg of drag equals about 6kg of pull from my line by the fish?

Then if the drag goes higher say 4kg, the fish will be pulling at 12kg due to leverage if it is taking line, going over the breaking strain and hence risking the line breaking or the hook popping out?

If that's correct then this is starting to make sense to me.

Thanks a lot! Setting the drag with such precision is new for me.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Mike89

[pjbink]

So 2kg of drag equals about 6kg of pull from my line by the fish?

Then if the drag goes higher say 4kg, the fish will be pulling at 12kg due to leverage if it is taking line, going over the breaking strain and hence risking the line breaking or the hook popping out?

If that's correct then this is starting to make sense to me.

Thanks a lot! Setting the drag with such precision is new for me.

No the drag the fish pulls is still 2kg. Remember I said a third of the b/s through a loaded rod. If you measure the drag straight off the reel (ie no bend in the rod) then use a quarter of the b/s of the line. The difference between the two figures is friction through the guides - leverage doesn't come into it.

[fragmeister]

No the drag the fish pulls is still 2kg. Remember I said a third of the b/s through a loaded rod. If you measure the drag straight off the reel (ie no bend in the rod) then use a quarter of the b/s of the line. The difference between the two figures is friction through the guides - leverage doesn't come into it.

I mislead you I think. I didn't mean to suggest that leverage impacts the drag which, as Billfisher correctly points out, is impacted by the additional friction on the runners and mostly the tip runner which has the sharpest angle and the greatest contact and friction from the line. That's why of course that game rods use roller guides at least on the tip runner.

The leverage impacts the load on your arms only.

I also agree with the 25% drag setting. I was just using the existing examples as basis for the explanation.