One Or Two Hooks?

[TunOFun]

Hello All,

I wanted to get some opinions on hook sets for skirted lures. I recently purchased a 9 inch skirted lure which was pre rigged with a single 10/0 hook.

1. The pre rigged hook is quite stiff, the loop it is attched to the leader is quite small and does not allow the hook to swing with much freedom. Should the hook be stiff like this or should i re rig it with a larger loop giving the hook more play?

2. What about 2 hook shackle rigs?? With this size of lure should i be looking at getting a shackle 2 hook rig??

3. Does the hook set depend on what species of fish i am targetting eg. marlin or tuna etc.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Brett

[Guest bluecod]

Brett,

More info!

What size main line will you be using?

What sort and B/S of the leader and how long is it?

What sort of hook is in it now? Heavy stainless or fine wire?

Where is the point of the hook in relation to the end of the skirt?

Re: hook swinging - personally I like my single hook rigs to swing freely and my double hook rigs to be fairly free but not sloppy. But then again, I've only been after marlin for a couple of seasons and I'm sure there are others on here who've hooked more than I've brought to the boat.

Throw a photo up for greater clarification for some of the others.

[Aero]

What style of lure would also help ? Slant? Pusher?

Chris

[TunOFun]

Heres a picture of the lure and the hook.

Its currently rigged on about 3 metres of 250lb trace.

Thanks.

[Guest bluecod]

Brett,

It looks like its been rigged for tuna - for marlin you want a longer trace - I run mine at around 15'.

Its also a good colour for tuna but I would be setting the hook futher back so the point of the hook is about 1 centimetre inside the skirt - easy way to do that is to tie off a rubber band around the trace setting the hook at desired spot.

The lure looks like it will take a two 8/0 hook rig but in doing so don't run heavy hooks in it as these could stuff the action - similarly if it doesn't look right, recrimp it so the hook swings freely and see how it performs that way .

Can't see the face of the lure but from the looks of the rest of the head it looks like its designed to run close to the boat [either corner] and produce plenty of action - run it well down the face of any wave the boat may produce - probably the 2nd or 3rd and see how it behaves [try it out in calm water at trolling speed to get an idea of how far back to run it - if it blows out too frequently when the other lures are behaving, try lowering the angle of the line from the rod tip to it [rubber band to stern cleat] as that will often fix the problem

Any other ideas fellas?

[Bashir]

Any other ideas fellas?

Yep

Ok I'm no expert but here are my opinions:

Looks like an MTB tulip from ebay???

If you intend on chasing marlin run a leader of around 10ft. 15ft is way too long in my opinion, a 10ft long marlin is a bloody big fish so match your leaders to the target fish. So your 3 metres of 250lb trace is fine. the short leaders help to keep the heavy leader out of the water improving the action of the lure.

If you intend on chasing marlin then run a two hook rig. Use mustad 76LGS hooks if you plan on using 24kg gear. Gamakatsu sl12 hooks are fine for 15kg but will open up on the trace or with heay drag settings. I use the pakula shackle rig on my lures and if you do a google search for it, you should find all the details.

Rather than lowering the trolling point of the lure, which places more of the leader in the water, you can try changing the position of the lure in the spread of moving it forwards or backwards making sure it is right at the bottom of the boat's wake. Although some lures just don't work in bad conditions and the rubber band or roller troller idea works ok.

Keep you hooks razor sharp and remove most of the barb to aid penetration

[Guest bluecod]

15ft is way too long in my opinion, a 10ft long marlin is a bloody big fish so match your leaders to the target fish.

Two schools of thought on that call Bash and I understand the argument - I've had leaders wrapped around fish doing aerobatics and ended up with nicks on the leader just short of the double - on shorter leaders it would have been bye bye fish - besides I'm a cheap old bastard and for every marlin you hook you lose about 18" of trace so that way I can generally get a few hook ups per leader.

[Aero]

Ditto to pretty much everything Bashir said, Do the google search he suggests as well

Keep in mind you'll need a complete spread of lures, not just one. Also you'll need to work out where and what you'll be fishing for ; little blacks in close, stripes in 80 fathoms or out wide for blues?

Theres alot of factors that have to be considered when rigging lures, hence why people have so many spreads.

Bluecod,

Body wrapping a fish has alot more to do with how the fish is fought, and how the boat is being driven on the fish.

Longer leaders my give you the leeway in the case of wrapping a fish, but their negatives far out weigh the positives Bashir stated.

Chris

P.S The Average short length of a 1000lb Marlin is 13 foot.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Aero

[TunOFun]

Thanks for all of the advice guys.

I was planning on using the lure for small balcks when the season picks up.

One question Bluecod, if the lure already has a 10/0 hook, why do you suggest a twin hook rig with only 8/0's.

I assume 8/0's are big enought for small blacks.

As for tuna will a 2 hook rig decrease hook ups etc??

[Aero]

Two hook shackle rigs wont decrease tuna hook ups, no matter what you do tuna will be a pain in the ass when marlin fishing.

If I was to rig the lure it would take shackle rigged 10/0 Sl12 gamma's for 15kg, and if I were to run it on 24kg it wouldbe shackle rigged 8/0 or 9/0 light guage mustad 7691s.

[TunOFun]

Areo, how come you suggest larger hooks for the lighter line class??

[Aero]

Areo, how come you suggest larger hooks for the lighter line class??

The 10/0 Gamma's are acctually similarly sized to the 8/0 - 9/0 mustads (probably in between). They are a fine wire hook designed for saltwater fly fishing, and open up when more than 7kg of pressure is appplied, thus making them only really suitable for 15kg.

It might be a big benifit to google up these various hooks and rigs as there has been alot of duscussion about them previously on various sites.

Chris

[Bashir]

If you intend on hooking some tuna and keeping them I suggest using the mustad 76lgs hooks as they will not open up when you grab the trace, or if you still want the use the sl12s, runa fairly short trace so that you can gaff the fish without putting your hands on the trace.

[TunOFun]

Well i think i have decided to go with the shackle rig.

Ive seen some with Maruto hooks which they claim are the same as the Mustads, do you guys know anything about these hooks?

Also i have seen that some shackle rigs are reversed (hooks going in oposite directions), which is the best, reversed or normal (same way up)

[Aero]

Same way up at 60 degrees, that way both hook points ride upwards.

Not a fan of Maruto's, they seem to be of a lesser quality stainless, and I've had them show signs of rust. Plus the guage of them is even heavier than the normal Mustad 7691s.

[Guest bluecod]

Finally managed to get the computer back off the kids and wife

TunOfin - you've been given heaps of good advice from both Bashir and Aero - none of which I'm going to dispute - you asked why two 8/0 instead of a two 10/0 hook shackle rig and I think its been pretty well covered - the answer is the extra weight, particularly when you see most ready made two hook rigs on the market.

The only other bit of advice I could probably give you, and anyone else starting out fishing skirts for big fish, is to see how the rig performs at different distances from the boat, speeds and running different hook setups, but whatever you do make sure your drag, terminal tackle etc is 100% otherwise you may not get a second chance with that lure.

As I said earlier in a response to Bashir - I understand the arguments about the long V short trace - but for a novice billchaser, I've had pretty good success with my longer leaders and I'm not complaining!

Best of luck guys for the coming season

[TunOFun]

Thanks for al the advice guys, its been great.

Hope some time this season to be posting a pic or two of my first Marlin.

Will be fishing out of Botany most of the season but am going to Pt Stephens for a week in Feb which i cant wait for!!

[REKLESS]

Geez I dont know whether to wade in here or not,I am still a fan of 15ft Traces,this is just a thing that I have from my point scoring days.Nothing like a bit of HD handlining I reckon every now and then!.If you are a newby to this sort of stuff ,invest in the good stuff.There is nothing worse then blowing $200 worth of fuel ,Bait and Rigs due to skimping an extra $5-10 on some cheaper terminals.The 761gs hooks would probably be the pick,I might suggest that you pick up a professionaly made Shackle rig ,I think pakula does one in a size and gauge suitable .

At least this will give you a headstart on what you will be looking for in any rigs that you will spot in the future,a benchmark if you like.

Simon

[Ken A]

no matter what you do tuna will be a pain in the ass when marlin fishing.

Bridling them up & using them for bait solves that problem

Go the 15 foot leaders

[Aero]

Bridling them up & using them for bait solves that problem

Go the 15 foot leaders

Bring on the sub 10kg tuna I say, more than happy to tow one around over the canyons

its those 40kg+ ones that just hog so much of the "bite time" that are Annoying. On the bright side we got bashir to take care of the winding duties

Chris

[Ken A]

Do you know the trick for making the tuna dive vertically when you want to fish them over canyons ?

Works great with big Striped Tuna You bridle them up then get them back in the water pronto as per usual & once they are revived lift them out of the water & swing them around on the leader & slap them down pretty hard on their side then let go of the leader as they hit. They will then dive straight down & keep going that way. It's no problem to get them down several hundred feet. The impact on their side seems to muck up their balance. Its a great little trick. Worth remembering for those days when nothing is happening tops side. Deep swimming tuna while drifting about has saved more than one day for us.

We have fished them down deep that way & scored some really nice fish.

[Aero]

Do you know the trick for making the tuna dive vertically when you want to fish them over canyons ?

Works great with big Striped Tuna You bridle them up then get them back in the water pronto as per usual & once they are revived lift them out of the water & swing them around on the leader & slap them down pretty hard on their side then let go of the leader as they hit. They will then dive straight down & keep going that way. It's no problem to get them down several hundred feet. The impact on their side seems to muck up their balance. Its a great little trick. Worth remembering for those days when nothing is happening tops side. Deep swimming tuna while drifting about has saved more than one day for us.

We have fished them down deep that way & scored some really nice fish.

I'll keep it in mind Ken

It now makes sence as to why all the tuna we've "hammer thrown" do the dive into the abyss !

Chris