Kingfish size limit

[Hooked-Up]

Hey guys and girls.

Headed across the ditch for some fishing action recently and was blown away by the average size of the kingfish there.

Average fish seemed between 90-105cm ( managed a 125@20kg too ? )

Anyway the size limit there is 75cm to the fork of the tail not the tip, thats equivalent to an 80cm to the tip of the tail. (ish)

So got me thinking.

Does anyone know at what size the kings start to breed?

Ive heard they put on around 5kg in weight per year which would make our 65cm to the tip (legal) fish literally babies!

Im thinking that alot dont get a chance to at least have 1 shot at breeding which is obviously very bad.

Just wanted to put it out there and see what people say.

and just a few years ago the size was 60cm yikes!

Also i think our jewfish are in the same boat and what a joke its been for so long at 45cm,

65cm to the tip is too small imo to keep both these fish even if its legal.

So what im saying is think about it before knocking these great fish on the head for a meal or 2.

Just my opinion with the info ive been given and my experiences.

Lets talk!

Cheers.

Lee.

[Krispy !]

NSW fisheries size limits are scientifically backed to allow a fish at least one chance at reproduction hence the change in size limit for jewfish a couple years ago. A kingfish around 65cm is 2-3 years old and would have already reached sexual maturity. Don't forget about population size, new Zealand has 1/5th of Australia's population and that means far less pressure on the fishery. If size limits increase to 75-80cm that makes it a lot harder for people restricted to land based fishing to get a legal fish as most of the ones you encounter fishing in estuaries are 50-80cm with some bigger fish in between. Don't get me wrong it would be great to have a fishery like the one in new Zealand but increasing size limits to that extent is unrealistic.

[Hooked-Up]

Thanks for the response.

2-3 years at 5kg?

So im assuming the increase of 5kg in weight per year would be an average over the 9 year avg lifespan of the fish then (talking kings)

I hear what your saying about land based fishos struggling to get a keeper but surely it would only be a short term pain for a long term gain.

Then the real fun would start lol.

Population would have an impact for sure too, nothing can do to overcome that unfortunately.

Thanks again Krispy!

Anyone got anything to add?

[stevefish]

It's all ok,

30 years ago they were all 49cm with a 50cm size limit.

20 years ago you didn't bother trying to catch a king

1997 kingfish traps were banned and everything changed.

10 years ago they became more common in the just under and just over size. Big ones were still a bit of a rarity.

And now the kingfish population is stronger than it has been in the 30 years I've witnessed .

No need for more rules

[Kiwi]

Charter boats in nz run an unofficial minimum size of 1 metre short length.

The kings off Terrigal have been hammered by the commercial blokes taking 400kg a day using a 25 hook drop line. Pulling up 9 or so each drop or 20 minutes. Nothing illegal and well within their rights. But does make it hard for the recreational bloke.

[Hooked-Up]

Hey Steve.

Beleive me the last thing i want is more (stupid) rules lol.

Great info mate with 30yrs experience its good to hear your opinion.

First thing coming to mind after reading your post is that these new rules have seemed not not only increase size but also numbers.

Possibly a good thing?

[Hooked-Up]

Hey Kiwi,

Thats painfull to read but as you say they arent doing anything outside the rules.

Lovely bit of the world NZ!

[Guest Guest123456789]

if you really want to see more sustainable fisheries, reign in the unsustainable commercial take. Even the ultra capitalists in the states are doing it, Obama just carved out some prime reefs for recreational fishos only and banned commercial activities like fishing and resource extraction. It makes perfect environmental and economic sense.

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/recreational-fishing-to-be-allowed-in-new-marine-monument

[Hooked-Up]

Thanks for the interesting read.

Commercial and recreational are certainly two very didferent things.

Tbh i dont know how much pressure is on our east coast from commercial fishos so not sure if thats the key or not.

Im still thinking a size increase across the board would be of the most long term benefit.

Anyone know catch rate commercial vs recreational or is it not easy to measure?

[Hooked-Up]

Literally just come across this article.

Hey Krispy!

You might want to read the part about kingfish sexual maturity size.

If science is correct we need to increase the size limit to 75cm or greater to give them a shot at breeding before possibly being captured commercially or recreationally.

Admin, delete link if you feel it's inappropriate.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwjdrIPT8pjPAhWm8YMKHRzVCaAQFggaMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fishingworld.com.au%2Fnews%2Fcomment-nsw-bag-and-size-review-options-to-consider&usg=AFQjCNE9NtCvsrNU0ATfzcVS448bAWIvRw&sig2=22uqfHeIxGlhEEuCheWClg

[foolforjesus]

Hey Lee,

If the science is correct, then it would seem Kingfish under 75cms haven't had a chance to reproduce.

If caught and taken for the table under this size, the level of impact it has on the fishery to me is uncertain, but you'd think it would have to have a negative impact?

Maybe if the size limit were increased it would take a few years for the average fish size to increase, but long term we might have a fishery similar to NZ.

In the meantime that could mean catching a legal fish would be tougher, but only for a 2-3 seasons?

I think in the long run, if the average size were to increase and there were more fish around, that's gotta be better right?

[Hooked-Up]

Thanks FFJ!

Look at this beast taken on day 1 in 16mtrs of water!

Guys "you may say im a dreamer, but im not the only one"

Lol....

Edited September 19, 2016 by Hooked up

[foolforjesus]

Thanks FFJ!

Look at this beast taken on day 1 in 16mtrs of water!

Guys "you may say im a dreamer, but im not the only one"

Lol....

No way!!!

Ahhh, if only we had a fishery like that here in Sydney!

[Hooked-Up]

Lol i reckon we could mate!

[Hooked-Up]

Just need to sacrifice a bit more after yesteryears damage.

[macca02]

I remember there was a PDF on the DPI website at one point, from memory it was around that 75cm that majority of kingfish (males & females) are sexually mature.

Mulloway up until recently had a way too low Minimum length, NSW finally caught up with some of the other states an increased it so they actually have a chance to reproduce before being taken!

But its pretty simple in my eyes, if you're taking fish before they have had a chance to reproduce once, then the fishery is only going to decline!

[Hooked-Up]

Thanks Macca!

Appreciate your input mate.

So it seems 75cm is the general size for kingfish to be able to reproduce.

Steve assuming the science is correct looks like we need to change the rules again lol.

As the law stands were free to take the fish at 65cm.

To me just because its legal does not make it right once you have current info with outdated laws.

Not trying to be a @55 here just had a taste of the big kings and trying to understand why we dont have those opportunities here.

Looks like theyve got it right across the ditch.

Anyone else got anymore to add?

[foolforjesus]

Very interesting read!

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/638530/YF_Fielder_Heasman-Hatchery-Manual-for-the-production-of-Australian-Bass,-Mulloway-and-Yellowtail-Kingfish.pdf

[Hooked-Up]

Great link FFJ!

According to that, sexual maturity varies with gender.

In NSW female kingfish are mature at around 85cm but the male mature quicker at around 50cm.

Sooooooo.

I guess the question is how can we tell what gender the kingfish are so then can determine whether to keep it or return it.

Easy with trout lol but kingfish im not so sure.

Thanks again.

[kingfishbig]

Kingfish nos and sizes seem (anecdotally at least) to be improving under the current rules. Also there is no convention that legal sizes must be at or above spawning size for the fishery to be sustainable. There are other limits like bag limits for anglers, limits on commercial fishing like the number of licences, gear limits, trip limits etc. Size limits below spawning size do confer some protection and will mean more fish reach spawning size than if the limits weren't there.

PS: I think you will find that the rec take is similar in size to the commercial take for kingfish in NSW.

[Hooked-Up]

Hey kingfishbig.

Cheers for the insight, all makes good sense.

Not sure we can reduce the bag limit below 2 for the rec sector, i cant see people being happy with that although id be fine with 1 fish pp personally, especially at over 75cm.

Interesting you say the rec sector and commercial sector take a similar amount, i wouldve thought the commercial far outweighed the rec but yeah thats total assumption.

Re the size limit according to sexual maturity thing, surely it makes sense to ensure they have at least one go at it for the future stocks.

Yes theyre not under threat of survival but arent exactly thriving either seemingly.

fYI i read in one of the above links they only produce 100-150 offspring each fish before nature kicks in and starts eating them, which also surprised me, wouldve thought there wouldve been more.

Cheers mate.

[recurve]

NSW fisheries size limits are scientifically backed to allow a fish at least one chance at reproduction hence the change in size limit for jewfish a couple years ago. A kingfish around 65cm is 2-3 years old and would have already reached sexual maturity. Don't forget about population size, new Zealand has 1/5th of Australia's population and that means far less pressure on the fishery. If size limits increase to 75-80cm that makes it a lot harder for people restricted to land based fishing to get a legal fish as most of the ones you encounter fishing in estuaries are 50-80cm with some bigger fish in between. Don't get me wrong it would be great to have a fishery like the one in new Zealand but increasing size limits to that extent is unrealistic.

Hey Krispy,

Yes NZ has a much smaller population but Kiwis are a boating, fishing crazy bunch. Launch in Auckland and fish the Hauraki Gulf around the islands on a summer weekend. It is packed with boats. I have never seen anything like it in Sydney harbour. I think the 1.4 million Aucklanders would easily match the 4 million Sydney Siders for number of hooks in the water. In fact i think they would have way more lines in the water.

Also don't forget Kiwis are allowed to Long Line from the boat and from the beach and we are allowed to use nets, drag nets and casting nets. There are almost no rules.

NZ waters are much colder and incredibly rich. Kingfish naturally grow faster and bigger over there.

I have been fishing for sprats right up the back of Auckland Harbour at a place called Heron Island. A 1.2m Kingfish had a school of Kahawai (Salmon) hold up in the shallows directly below the wharf in about half a meter. He was digging up sand and mud, looked like he was creating a barrier to corner them against). I have seen huge Kingys like this just ambling around pylons and moorings in Auckland which is fished incredibly hard.

I think the Kings are just bigger back in the homeland.

Some differences I have noticed is that in Auckland, yakkas are considered to be not the best live bait for kings and salmon (Kahawai) is regarded as being a much better live bait. But over here yakkas are considered to be a better live bait than salmon. When tell people about live Salmon for Kingfish bait over here I get confused looks.

Different waters different fish, different scene.

[kingfishbig]

NZ waters have somewhat higher primary productivity than Australian waters. They are not actually less fished, NZ has twice the fishery of Australia despite having a much smaller EEZ. Another difference is that the inshore waters are less diverse than ours, ie fewer no of species.

[recurve]

NZ waters have somewhat higher primary productivity than Australian waters. They are not actually less fished, NZ has twice the fishery of Australia despite having a much smaller EEZ. Another difference is that the inshore waters are less diverse than ours, ie fewer no of species.

Totally agree. In NZ and I mean Auckland, Kahawai are the main pelagic species inshore. We don't get Tailor and we don't get Bonito and all the Tuna etc. We do get tuna but not in numbers. i.e. I Have never caught a Bonito or a Skip Jack in Auckand.Is always Snapper, Kings, Kahawai.

Over here Kahawai are a real challenge to catch. They are fussy and they are mystical. In NZ they are a pain in the arse. You can't get your baits below them to get to the snapper. Kahawai eat anything that shimmers where over here I have been cursing them as they won't take anything I try. Kahawai don't seem to jump in NZ, well not for me they didn't.

Very very different fising scene. I imagine in Australia the Kings compete with a lot more Pelagics so harder for them to get stuffed full of oily bait fish to grow big and strong like mighty Kings of Aotearoa

I love the fishing over here. A lot more species and the fishing is good all year round. the Kings are a lot smaller but that is not a problem for me.

[Scratchie]

I was talking to a mate yesterday that works for the fisheries up here and they are about to embark on a massive kingfish breeding program that will create at least 10 jobs for the area. I might have to put my hand up for that one!

To add to this thread, never seen the kingfish population more healthy than it has been in the past few years!

Cheers scratchie!!!