Casting 200m+, and the real world benefits of distance casting

[Guest Guest123456789]

Hardest thing sometimes isn't it NOT to catch bloody sharks. I'm thinking lumo green would be the way to go for the float.   Seems like a lot of trial and error will be needed.

Do you salt your baits? I used to use bait elastic but since salting baits I haven't had the need.

[Guest Guest123456789]

Hi Dan,

What do you think of this vid on surf casting for distance? Anything to add?

 

[outdoordan]

The first guys technique is very average to say the least and really does not make the most of the rod at all. Also his cast trajectory will be very low which is good when punching into the wind, but will limit the distance.

The second guy is a bloke by the name of Ryan White from a shop called Hatteras Jack. He is the century distributor in the US. His cast is much better and shows/explains the principles. The only thing he doesn't go through is foot placement, weight transfer and posture. when combining all these things it is amazing how much more power you can transfer into a rod. I have used this overhead cast to put a 125gr lead in excess of 150m with a 13ft rod, spinning reel and 20lb braid.

Im glad to see that you have taken an interest in all things casting.

[outdoordan]

Also i don't salt my baits. The only bought bait that i use is IQF pilchards, and this is only to catch fresh bait.

[Mr Mullit]

Sitting here thinking about  how awesome  learning these long cast will be.  Also so thinking about how funny this technique could be. I know I'll attempt it when I probably shouldn't. Imagine if heaps of people try it with just any old tackle. Maybe we should stop talking about this or they'll have wearing stackhats.

What do you know about ground casting? That looks a bit better for later in the day. 

[Mike89]

Very interesting topic. I'd always wanted to get a better casting distance but figured the solution to this must be using heavier leads.

Do we need to be using very long (13-15 ft) rods to be achieving these distances?

[outdoordan]

Definitely keep safety in mind. and use an decent shock leader that has a least a half a dozen turns around the spool. a general rule is 10lb breaking strain for every ounce of cast weight. (5oz or 140gr = 50lb shock leader) A wayward sinker could kill some one. I can't stress safety enough for anyone trying,.

Also use much less weight than the rods maximum rating. Like start with half. These ratings are generally not up to power casting, and id hate to see you blow up your pride and joy.

Ground casting is an immensely powerful cast when you get it right. Distances of over 200m are  achievable with the right gear. In fact there is a guy in the UK that has cast over 300yards (280 odd meters) with a ground cast. It is important to be proficient in ground casting before stepping up to the pendulum as they share most of the same principles and allow you to focus on technique without the added complication of a moving lead.

Look up a video by Tommy Farmer called ground casting fundamentals. Tommy is a great American caster that has held many national titles and records. Another one to look out for is the videos put up by our own Jeremy Schrader. Jeremy is an extremely talented Australian caster and holds the current Australian title. He is also a great guy and personal mate.

I think it would be a good idea to focus on the Overhead Thump casts when starting out. It is a relatively simple cast that still has potential for big distance. Plus it is a bit safer as all energy is directed in one direction.

[outdoordan]

Mike,

Getting a good understanding as to what makes a good cast will improve distance with all gear whether it be a 7ft bream rod or 14ft beach rod.

Length is not everything. I posted my bests casts at the Australian Surfcasting Federation's national champs in South Australia earlier this year with a 13'6 rod after casting my 14'10 for a day and a half. My timing with the shorter rod was much better and i was able to eclipse my best casts with the bigger rod. But in saying that, a seven foot rod will never outcast a 14fter in capable hands.

[Mr Mullit]

Just been over the footy field for cast. Had a few attempts at pendulum casts with my abu and 11' tiralejo.  Even got a couple to sort of look like I might have meant it before I cracked my sinker off. Changed to something a bit easier and tried ground casting with a 7' rod and 8000 saragosa with 30 on it. I just cut off the rig and tied on 60g sinker. As soon as started to get the hang of it and casting straightish I was hitting just short of 70m about 10m better than I was with my old technique. Back over later with longer rods. Going stick to eggbeaters till I get a bit more of a grasp of the basics. Awesome  to feel the rod properly load up. Can't believe I haven't got into this earlier. Maybe fishos whould be better off learning these techniques before they start learning how to use the next latest and greatest lure or tie the latest leader knot.

Thanks for the nudge in the right direction Dan.I owe you a beer. Game changer!

Cheers Matt 

[Guest Guest123456789]

35 minutes ago, Mr Mullit said:

Just been over the footy field for cast. Had a few attempts at pendulum casts with my abu and 11' tiralejo.  Even got a couple to sort of look like I might have meant it before I cracked my sinker off. Changed to something a bit easier and tried ground casting with a 7' rod and 8000 saragosa with 30 on it. I just cut off the rig and tied on 60g sinker. As soon as started to get the hang of it and casting straightish I was hitting just short of 70m about 10m better than I was with my old technique. Back over later with longer rods. Going stick to eggbeaters till I get a bit more of a grasp of the basics. Awesome  to feel the rod properly load up. Can't believe I haven't got into this earlier. Maybe fishos whould be better off learning these techniques before they start learning how to use the next latest and greatest lure or tie the latest leader knot.

Thanks for the nudge in the right direction Dan.I owe you a beer. Game changer!

Cheers Matt 

Yeah second that - thanks Dan I too overlooked this aspect of fishing and now realise how important it is.

[DerekD]

Hi Outdoordan,

I have really enjoyed reading this topic and it was something which I was discussing with a few of the mad fisho's from work. Did some further research a few months back and was seriously impressed to find that one of the UK anglers has an unofficial record of just over 300m.

Over the years I have had to refine people's casting technique with the gear we use for lure fishing. Most of them comment on how effortless it is to cast well with an efficient technique. While I try and teach for accuracy I find they get distance improvements too. I often point out that the extra 5m length you might gain multiplied by a 50m wide strip gives you another 250m² of area to cover.

I can see the benefits of the extra distance and want to be able to get more out of my gear. How well does what you have learned with sinkers and bait translate to the 7 foot spinning gear we use for hard bodied lures and soft plastics? In my case I use a Shimano Raider snapper 7'6" and 15lb braid but I top out at about 70m with a 1.5oz (45gram) lure. As the rod was a present from my mum I won't push it into rod snapping acceleration and I am sure it will take more than I am throwing at it. The rod comes into its own when I start working the plastics on the retrieve (which I would probably struggle with using a longer rod).

Regards,

Derek

Edited March 19, 2017 by DerekD

[outdoordan]

Im really glad to see you guys getting out there and having a cast. I really hope that we can get you guys smashing the 100m mark soon.

But a word of warning, Distance casting is highly addictive. Not only is chucking stuff a really long way a lot of fun, the personal challenge to improve yourself is where you get hooked.

I will work on putting a bit of an instructional video together to cover some aspects of rigs, gear and casting fundamentals. but you'll have to be a bit patient. My Mrs has huge "to do" list hanging over my head, and it just seems to keep growing, especially when i keep sneaking out to chase my beloved jew instead of whittling down her to do list.

Derek,

Your sentiments mirror my own in the benefits of proficient casting, both for distance and accuracy. There is a Belgium guy who holds virtually every distance casting record, he is a machine. Rumour has it that he has hit 330m in practice

I am sure that my work in distance casting has improved my rod work with light gear. However the increases would be less dramatic. for example, a few % increase on a 100m cast compared to the same % increase on a 35m cast. Also the poor aerodynamics of a small hardbodies mean that even if it starts out at a higher speed, it will decellerate at a higher speed, meaning the distance increase wont be so great. But as you rightfully mentioned, even a extra few merters equates to a huge amount of extra water you could cover, or the further you can hold off the structure, while still casting to those finiky fish holding on it.

The next point that you raised and I also agree with is that of compromise. The rod that would give us the most distance, may not be the same rod that would work the lure most effectively, or it could be too long and cumbersome to cast for hours on end. It could be that 10lb braid will cast the furthest, but would mean that when we do hook that tuna or whatever we cannot put enough pressure on the fish, meaning extended fights and the fish being released in poor conditon. It is important that we as anglers understand what is required in pursueing our quarry, and select the gear that suits those needs best.

One example i can give, is of my own Mulloway missions off the rocks on lures. There is one place i fish that requires a cast distance of 70-90m to get a bite from the wash behind a bommie. Considering that this is almost always in horrible conditons, it is not an easy task. I have resorted to making my own hardbodies to try to make the distance. I have also resorted to dropping down to 30lb braid. 50lb falls short but gives me a bit to play with when i hook one, 30lb gets the distance, but means i need to redline the gear with 8-9kgs of drag to try to turn the fish from the heavy cover. So far i haven't struck the balance and haven't managed to land my fish, but i will!

[Mr Mullit]

G'day Dan,

I've put the full on distance casting down for a bit until I complete some work on my abu. I'll have a proper crack at that once I get geared up. What I have been doing is pendulum style techniques to lob baits and lures with less effort. I'm looking a bit unco and need alot of practice but it does seem that I'm on to something. Still not quite out to my usual distance but I'm assuming that will come with improved technique. Wondering if you do any of this type casting or is there another technique for gaining distance with less exertion? Also do you know of any single handed distance casts. I can't seem to find any. 

Thanks mate

Matt

[dfmdab]

Dan / Matt

Have been following this post from over here in the UK and it's great to see the intrest the topic has created. I do a lot of shore fishing both in the UK and Oz as my daughter lives in Cronulla and I stayed with her over Xmas just past for 9 weeks and got quite a few sessions in and managed to catch 24 different species.

Due to luggage restrictions I could not bring over my favorite rod, a Century Tip Tornado, Power GP which is a type used by tournament casters, casting wise I cannot do it justice, however it's great for sending big baits out about 100 metres into very rough ground and being able to haul the fish back. It is a very stiff rod and it takes a lot of power to compress it during casting and that's where the pendulum comes into play.

One of the best exponents of this is John Holden and he has his own channel on Utube, he also demonstrates more easier casting styles, OTG, Easy cast & Brighton cast. These are the most popular used styles over here and with practice distances of 150 metres should be attainable.

Multipying reels, Penn 525 mags, Abu 6500, etc loaded with 12lb main line with 70lb shock leaders are the norm to achieve maximum distance.

As earlier mentioned I could not bring over my favorite rod so I bought a Jarvis Walker 12ft beach caster for about $40 and used my Penn 525 with it, because it was so soft the most I could cast was about 80 metres which put me in the far gutter when I fished Wanda Beach. It also allowed me to pull out a Bronzy Whaler from the rocks just south of Shark Island.

I'm coming back over later in the year for 12 weeks and will be wanting to buy a more stiffer rod so your recommendations would be welcome, it will also be interesting to see how far your casting then.

Cheers

Dave

[rickmarlin62]

many long hours standing casting lures at longtails cobes and Spanish up the coast over thirty years taught us how to cast long distances to get longer lure in water time..in the old days we all used fsu 4120 and fsu5120 rods with mark 4 tritons after we blew up all our seascapes..the old test for us with 100/140gr home made lures was 120 mtrs with 20lb nylon..a small tip I have found for those trying to throw distance of the rocks for snapper is to keep your trace to your bait short as the longer it is the more it flails around..we had a guy that was adamant that he could outdistance our o/heads with his alvey and 12 footer so we lined up on the try line at local footy oval both with 4oz snapper leads 20lb line he could just make 100mtrs  I was punchin over back fence..settled that debate..i have a range of reels im going to test in the next few days..still have my faithful 5120..il see how far I can get  cheers for bringing back the memories..rick

[outdoordan]

Matt,

I use a low swing pendulum for my tournament casting, but spent about a year focusing on "off the ground" to improve my technique before switching to pendulum. I didnt even think about the pendulum until i was hitting 180-190m regularly. The problem is that the pendulum introduces the complications of the swinging lead. This makes it way too hard to perfect the other more important aspects of the cast, like weight transfer, hip rotation, arm placement and the "hit" (final pull with the lower arm around a solid fulcrum created by the upper arm)

For fishing I only resort to pendulum when needing big distances. Otherwise I normally stick to an overhead thump style cast. With thoughtful rig and bait presentation, this method is still capable of big distances. I have put a bait and clipped pulley rig 113m on fishing gear using this cast. This comes down a bit with the bigger baits, but 80m+ is still achievable.

The cast with the spinning reel and 20lb braid went 151m with 125gr. The rod is a Century TTLDSM and an Ultegra 5500. Nothing more than my every day fishing gear.

The thing with pendulum casting is, it has the potential to generate a lot of power. If your timing and technique are not up to scratch, this energy can break rods very easily. It is possible to bend the rod into an acute angle (same as high sticking) or if you "cut the corner" you will cause alot of twisting force to be transfered into the blank. Like a chinese burn. Rods dont like torsional load and will not last long. It is better to work with the off the ground cast if you are wanting to take the step up to pendulum. Or as Dave mentioned, The easy cast. Just take it easy as this cast can also overload the rod if you try to hit it too hard too early as the lead starts below the rod and needs time to step out.

This vid shows some off the ground casting with a 150gr practice ball (less lethal to dog walkers and fitness junkies) and TT Super match.

 

The same principles relate to single handed spinning gear as the over head thump cast. Punch forward and up with the casting arm to load the rod, then flick the wrist to generate higher lure speed through the locked rod.

 

Dave,

There is not too much available in this country that would take a decent cast. Hence the reason why I have resorted to buying gear from the UK. There is not much i could recommend that would be anywhere near the league of your Century. There is some SA gear that is resonable, But it is way too expensive in this country for pretty entry level gear. Assassins go for over $400 bucks! They should be about half that.

 

Rick,

Not sure if you still muck around with long range baiting, but if you do, do your self a favour an check out clip down and pulley rigs. They are the dogs jangelies for long range bait fishing.

I look forward to hearing how you go when you get the FSU out. I still have a 5120G, and wouldnt part with it. Even though it sees less and less use these days.

Dan

[Guest Guest123456789]

Hi Dan,

Trying to decide whether to buy some of those splashdown clips or just buy a zip lining set up instead. Is there a reason you cast it all at once instead of lob a grapnel sinker then send the bait out via zip line? 

The main concern I have with the zip line is whether or not I can use braid with a zip line. If I have to use 'casting mono' then I'll be reluctant as I don't like thick mono because of its negative impact on casting distance and how much drag it has with wind and current.

[outdoordan]

The splashdown clips are awesome, but they are only suited to thin wire hooks. anything bigger than say 4/0 will have issues.

Imps clips are a bit better but still struggle with 8/0s. I run a loop below the 2 snelled hooks and clip that.

Sliding is great for big baits, and you should be able to slide smaller baits with weighted slides, but its easier and quicker to just cast them. current needs to be taken into account when sliding to make sure that the bait makes it all the way out. Also grip leads are a must for sliding as you need to make sure you have a solid anchor point to get enough tension on the line for the non return clip to work properly.

Slide clips are pretty expensive, but you can make your own without too much drama with the right gear.

Mono is a better option for sliding. I have never slid baits on braid so cant really comment. Perhaps someone with experience in this can chime in.

[relapse]

Is that photo from ashley brown reserve? 

[Guest Guest123456789]

Thanks Dan. Sounds like the Imp clips are the way to go.

As an aside my soluble pvc string should arrive soon. I'll test it and let you know how it goes.

[outdoordan]

21 hours ago, relapse said:

Is that photo from ashley brown reserve? 

I had to google it, but yes. I live around the corner in KL and never knew the name.

Let us know how you get on with the soluble string Luke?

 

[Short]

Quick video on how to make slide clips. Pretty easy to do and costs bugger all compared to buying them. Get stainless wire if possible, gal goes OK but use it once and it won't slide as well second time out of the tackle bag. 

They call it an Australian slide bait rig when hardly anyone here uses them! Not that I've seen anyway.

Sliding on braid isn't advisable, mono is definitely the go.

 

[Guest Guest123456789]

21 hours ago, outdoordan said:

I had to google it, but yes. I live around the corner in KL and never knew the name.

Let us know how you get on with the soluble string Luke?

 

Just got the soluble pvc string. Feels like the breaking strain is about 10lbs. Tied it around my finger, took 30 secs to dissolve enough to break and fully dissolved in 2 minutes. I think it will work fine.

Could be a real game changer Dan? For $2.50 (delivered) for 20 metres it certainly is cheap.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Guest123456789
Attach images

[Guest Guest123456789]

Hi Dan,

I took the new rod out to beach Saturday afternoon/night and though I would share results. 

My mentor gifted me a timber wolf 13 foot 8 to 12 kg rod as his back is shot and he can't wield it anymore. In return he gets a lifetime of free fuel in my tinny (lucky he's old lol ?). I matched it with a pfleugar salt 6000 spooled with about 100 metres of 15kg stiff mono top shot with 125 metres of x4 20lbs daiwa j braid. I had about 4 metres 10kg mono leader connected with an FG knot. I then connected a single hook paternoster rig, 60lbs using a uni to uni knot. At the bottom of the rig I used a crane swivel and a 4oz star sinker. To stop tangles I used only a short dropper loop, maybe 3 inches long max. Importantly, the dropper loop was quite close to the sinker to keep the weight relatively close to help with casting distance. I had a size 3/0 octopus hook and used salted frigate and fresh tailor strips(about the size of my index finger) for bait.

I had a great time despite a strong 20knot cross wind, strong current and lots of kelp. The kelp was swirling around in the front gutter, which is where nearby fishos were casting to and they had no shortage of problems hooking the weed. No matter how hard these guys tried, they would run down to the shore, getting wet and trying to throw their baits over the break to the back gutter but couldn't hit it. They were also having a hell of a time with the current dragging around their thick mono line.

 I was standing back from the shore in an elevated position lobbing my bait 100 metres plus with relative ease. The sinker held spot but I could still feel the bites. I never had issue with weed except on occasion retrieving the bait. I caught 5 tailor, 1 salmon, I shovel nosed shark 1 under size bream 1 undersized flathead and a honking big 45cm bream.

Thanks again for your help Dan, long casting really is a game changer and you're right is an addictive hobby. I want to learn to cast even longer!!!